Not exercising is worse for your health than diabetes

[xyzzy]

Taking Omega 3 is apparently a good way of reducing insulin resistance (at least in mice) because of its anti inflammatory action I upped my Omega 3 to 2g a day after reading this well known study.

Supplementing Omega 3 is a pretty bad idea unless you seriously cut back on your Omega 6s. If you're eating vegetable oils (seed oils are worst, but even olive oil is bad), anything grain based, or animals that eat grain (chicken being the worst) then your 6 to 3 ratio will be so out of kilter that there is not point in taking Omega 3. The ideal ratio is 2 to 4:1. Most people run at 15:1 or more.

That's one of the central tenets of the Paleo thing: we didn't evolve to eat grains, and our food chain is so polluted by them, that we all get a massive overdose of Omega 6s which competes for receptors with Omega 3s. This means that Omega 3 in your fish oil doesn't get utilised properly, and all you're doing is increasing your intake of unhealthy polyunsaturated fatty acids.

I try and eat a bit of oily fish, but try and avoid anything that derives from grains, especially vegetable oils (I limit my olive oil intake).

http://www.archevore.com/panu-weblog/month/may-2009

Right Stephen recognise you're the resident expert on all of this but not all of us want to do the caveman paleo thing to the level you do. So if I want to eat chicken and fry my bacon and egg in a bit of olive oil (yes did swap) and have a slice of Burgen a day but rarely eat products that are rich in fish oils what's the suggestion then.

The insulin resistance Omega 3 research is well known and pretty respected so I believe there is something in it. Any suggestions?

 

[Defren]

Taking Omega 3 is apparently a good way of reducing insulin resistance (at least in mice) because of its anti inflammatory action I upped my Omega 3 to 2g a day after reading this well known study.

Supplementing Omega 3 is a pretty bad idea unless you seriously cut back on your Omega 6s. If you're eating vegetable oils (seed oils are worst, but even olive oil is bad), anything grain based, or animals that eat grain (chicken being the worst) then your 6 to 3 ratio will be so out of kilter that there is not point in taking Omega 3. The ideal ratio is 2 to 4:1. Most people run at 15:1 or more.

That's one of the central tenets of the Paleo thing: we didn't evolve to eat grains, and our food chain is so polluted by them, that we all get a massive overdose of Omega 6s which competes for receptors with Omega 3s. This means that Omega 3 in your fish oil doesn't get utilised properly, and all you're doing is increasing your intake of unhealthy polyunsaturated fatty acids.

I try and eat a bit of oily fish, but try and avoid anything that derives from grains, especially vegetable oils (I limit my olive oil intake).

http://www.archevore.com/panu-weblog/month/may-2009

Right Stephen recognise you're the resident expert on all of this but not all of us want to do the caveman paleo thing to the level you do. So if I want to eat chicken and fry my bacon and egg in a bit of olive oil (yes did swap) and have a slice of Burgen a day but rarely eat products that are rich in fish oils what's the suggestion then.

The insulin resistance Omega 3 research is well known and pretty respected so I believe there is something in it. Any suggestions?

I don't think a paleo diet is really needed, more just a choice for control. It's not too dissimilar to Atkins, just slightly more restrictive. I eat small portions anyway as my stomach has shrunk so much on the ND, so having only small amounts of things like chicken are fine.

I know you directed this at Stephen, but cooking in virgin cold pressed coconut oil could be a good alternative. I buy mine from Amazon.

One other point. I take Cod liver oil capsules each day, but I do love fish. Am I likely to go over the recommended daily amount if I take a capsule, and have some form of fish in the same day? I began taking cod liver oil years ago, for my joints, then as with everything slipped, but now take them religiously each day.

 

[borofergie]

Right Stephen recognise you're the resident expert on all of this but not all of us want to do the caveman paleo thing to the level you do. So if I want to eat chicken and fry my bacon and egg in a bit of olive oil (yes did swap) and have a slice of Burgen a day but rarely eat products that are rich in fish oils what's the suggestion then.

The insulin resistance Omega 3 research is well known and pretty respected so I believe there is something in it. Any suggestions?

I understand that. I'm on board with the whole thing, but I have to make compromises too. Olive Oil is better than mechanically recovered vegetable oils from seeds and grains. I really wouldn't touch anything uses those. The best way to use Olive Oil for frying has always been mixed with butter (it just tastes better), that will also help cut down the O6s.

Alternatives are Cocunut Oil (which is saturated fat) and tastes just yummy if you eat it out of the jar (seriously), butter, and probably best of all lard or dripping. The truth is, propaganda aside, all of that stuff will make your food taste better too.

You need to get your head away from "saturated fats are bad for you" rubbish. It's wrong, there is no scientific data to support it. You didn't evolve to eat mechanically recovered grain and seed oils. It's ridiculous to suggest that something that's only been around for a few thousand years is going to be better for us that the food we evolved to eat (animal proteins and fats).

Here is what I reckon:

1. Cut down on Olive Oil by using more butter, coconut oil or lard
2. Never eat seed or grain oils
3. Try to eat a bit less chicken, and eat more grass fed lamb, beef and game
4. Eat more fish or Omega 3 enriched eggs

 

[xyzzy]

best of all lard or dripping

There you go. My mum was right all along. She used lard for cooking and fry-ups etc. When I got married back in the depths of time I weighed in just under 10 stone with a 28" waist. It makes me smile now that as a lad in the 60's and 70's it wasn't until I gained some independence that I ever came across pasta or rice (except creamy rice pudding for pud) or pizza etc. She wouldn't do "foreign" stuff so I never got it.

Just to show here's me back then still in 28" jeans with the eldest. This is my target now, to get back like that 28" waist and all. Can't get the hair back though as its long gone but now only 4" off that 28" target.

 

[borofergie]

There you go. My mum was right all along. She used lard for cooking and fry-ups etc. When I got married back in the depths of time I weighed in just under 10 stone with a 28" waist. It makes me smile now that as a lad in the 60's and 70's it wasn't until I gained some independence that I ever came across pasta or rice (except creamy rice pudding for pud) or pizza etc. She wouldn't do "foreign" stuff so I never got it.

That's exactly the point: your mum was right, your gran(s) were right, all your great-grans were right, etc, etc, all the way back to Mitochondrial Eve (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve). None of them used sunflower oil all of them would have happily cooked with lard, very few of them (if any) had T2 diabetes. Go figure.

I found the smell of cooking with lard very evocative of my (long-gone) Grandmother's kitchen.

 

[lucylocket61]

Another red-head xyzzy!!!!!

There is an outbreak of them on here :lol:

Barry Groves talking in his book about regional eating. He suggests that we are genetically programmed to respond to certain starches and have evolved to cope with limited portions of them. Food from other cultures are treated as foreign substances to our gut and can have a severe effect until we get used to them.

PS I hate exercise.

 

[phoenix]

That's exactly the point: your mum was right, your gran(s) were right, all your great-grans were right, etc, etc, all the way back to Mitochondrial Eve

I doubt the Grannies round here used lard for cooking.
They might, as they still do, use some duck fat and walnut oil,but for the most part it would be olive oil at least back to Roman times. They don't grow olives here but it isn't that far to transport it. They possibly used chestnut oil in the 18th to early 19C since chestnuts and rye were the staples.
Cretan grannies definitely used olive oil as did Italian grannies.

My granny would use lard for pastry, refined lard is fairly neutral in taste .
Cooking was done in dripping (beef) and the dripping pot used, added to and reused. It was clarified in hot water every now and then.
We had a dripping pot when we were first married but I've moved on. I'll stick to olive and the odd bit of duck fat from the confit for saute potatoes .

People round here eat a lot more fish here even though we're 100km from the sea. There's a lot more of it and a far bigger choice than in the UK It took time to adapt and get over my typically English food conservatism when faced with unknown fish but now we eat a lot more than we used to.

I don't know if the figures would be similar in the UK but the biggest cause in the huge rise of omega 6 intake in the US seems to have been from Soy oil.
You'd only eat a lot of that if you ate lot's of processed foods. http://www.ajcn.org/content/93/5/950.long

 

[WhitbyJet]

Thoroughly depressed now - I use lard, ghee, butter and dripping for cooking and baking, but what am I to use for making my mayonnaise? I cant live without mayonnaise HELP

 

[Defren]

There you go. My mum was right all along. She used lard for cooking and fry-ups etc. When I got married back in the depths of time I weighed in just under 10 stone with a 28" waist. It makes me smile now that as a lad in the 60's and 70's it wasn't until I gained some independence that I ever came across pasta or rice (except creamy rice pudding for pud) or pizza etc. She wouldn't do "foreign" stuff so I never got it.

That's exactly the point: your mum was right, your gran(s) were right, all your great-grans were right, etc, etc, all the way back to Mitochondrial Eve (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve). None of them used sunflower oil all of them would have happily cooked with lard, very few of them (if any) had T2 diabetes. Go figure.

I found the smell of cooking with lard very evocative of my (long-gone) Grandmother's kitchen.

Even though I can't have them now, there is no better chip than one deep fried in lard. Like roast potato's goose fat every time.

Steve, I didn't know you were another of the redhead brigade on here, we seem to be a rather large group. :lol:

 

[Defren]

That's exactly the point: your mum was right, your gran(s) were right, all your great-grans were right, etc, etc, all the way back to Mitochondrial Eve

I doubt the Grannies round here used lard for cooking.
They might, as they still do, use some duck fat and walnut oil,but for the most part it would be olive oil at least back to Roman times. They don't grow olives here but it isn't that far to transport it. They possibly used chestnut oil in the 18th to early 19C since chestnuts and rye were the staples.
Cretan grannies definitely used olive oil as did Italian grannies.

My granny would use lard for pastry, refined lard is fairly neutral in taste .
Cooking was done in dripping (beef) and the dripping pot used, added to and reused. It was clarified in hot water every now and then.
We had a dripping pot when we were first married but I've moved on. I'll stick to olive and the odd bit of duck fat from the confit for saute potatoes .

People round here eat a lot more fish here even though we're 100km from the sea. There's a lot more of it and a far bigger choice than in the UK It took time to adapt and get over my typically English food conservatism when faced with unknown fish but now we eat a lot more than we used to.

I don't know if the figures would be similar in the UK but the biggest cause in the huge rise of omega 6 intake in the US seems to have been from Soy oil.
You'd only eat a lot of that if you ate lot's of processed foods. http://www.ajcn.org/content/93/5/950.long

The problem is, most people buy fish either pre packaged, or like me, fresh but from the supermarket. I love all kinds of fish, and the fishmongers used to be a source of so much choice. Sadly, few remain, so we are left with the same old, same old from the supermarkets. I would love to see more variety here, and as an island there really should be more variety available.

 

[borofergie]

Thoroughly depressed now - I use lard, ghee, butter and dripping for cooking and baking, but what am I to use for making my mayonnaise? I cant live without mayonnaise HELP

Mayonnaise is the one major flaw in the argument. I found a recipe for some made with olive oil and cocunut oil. It went straight in the bin, because it tasted too strongly of olives. Some mad Paleo people make it from bacon fat, but I doubt it is any good.

 

[Unbeliever]

[quote="xyz

Steve, I didn't know you were another of the redhead brigade on here, we seem to be a rather large group. :lol:

Yes , someon eshould do a study. Are redheads geneticlly more inclined to T2 diabetes? :lol:

Common racial ancestry would probably be Celtic or Viking. I know celts are supposed to have originated in the old ugoslavia region and of course we all knw {or think we do} about the Vikings I wonder what hat would tell us?

More looting, pillaging and raping nmight stave off the disease? It would certainly be good eercise!

 

[borofergie]

I doubt the Grannies round here used lard for cooking.
They might, as they still do, use some duck fat and walnut oil,but for the most part it would be olive oil at least back to Roman times. They don't grow olives here but it isn't that far to transport it. They possibly used chestnut oil in the 18th to early 19C since chestnuts and rye were the staples.
Cretan grannies definitely used olive oil as did Italian grannies.

Bet you five Euros that xyzzy's Gran isn't French. Do they have Gallic gingers?

Of course, the angle that KDH is arguing from is that, from an evolutionary point of view, that what Roman and Cretan grannies did is pretty irrelevant. Olive oils and chestnut oils are still neolithic inventions, and as such they are not part of our ancestral diet, and therefore possible agents of harm when considering diseases of civilisation (such as metabolic syndrome and diabetes).

Of course he'd prefer Monounsaturated Olive Oil to PUFA Vegetable Oils:

Olive oil is a bit of a politically correct fad. It has it's origins of course in the supposed mediterranean diet - of which there are several, and of which only some had any olive oil in them. The support for olive oil was the general scheme (not supported by the evidence) that SFA is bad and MUFA and PUFAs were the alternative.

When you eat animal products and have low carbohydrate intake, you are getting huge amounts of MUFA from the animal fat - check out the MUFA content in a steak or in butter and it nearly matches the sat fat. Bone marrow is the big evolutionary source of MUFAs, not cold pressed olive oil. Of course there is some oxidation going on when you cook with olive oil that will defeat the purpose, so I eat it cold for flavor, but I get plenty of MUFA without olive oil in my animal based diet.

I'm sure I never tasted Olive Oil as a kid, unless I was on holiday in Spain.

I don't know if the figures would be similar in the UK but the biggest cause in the huge rise of omega 6 intake in the US seems to have been from Soy oil.
You'd only eat a lot of that if you ate lot's of processed foods. http://www.ajcn.org/content/93/5/950.long

That's very interesting. I had no idea that Soy was such a problem.

The other problem is of course that grains dominate our entire food chain - either we eat it ourselves (as grains or flour), we feed it to our animals (to make them fat - even if it isn't part of their evolutionary diet), or we cook or flavour our with it (vegetable oils). KHD reckons that 55% of food energy across the world comes from grains (I guess this includes grain fed meat).

Things are much better here than America in general, both in terms of soya use (I guess) and because most of our beef and lamb is grass fed, while most of theirs is corn fed.

 

[Defren]

[quote="xyz

Steve, I didn't know you were another of the redhead brigade on here, we seem to be a rather large group. :lol:

Yes , someon eshould do a study. Are redheads geneticlly more inclined to T2 diabetes? :lol:

Common racial ancestry would probably be Celtic or Viking. I know celts are supposed to have originated in the old ugoslavia region and of course we all knw {or think we do} about the Vikings I wonder what hat would tell us?

More looting, pillaging and raping nmight stave off the disease? It would certainly be good eercise!

Brilliant post, and food for thought. I could imagine myself as a Nordic Boudica looting and pillaging (just for the exercise you understand). :lol:

 

[phoenix]

The roots of red hair
http://genome.wellcome.ac.uk/doc_WTD020874.html

And is the red hair gene a 'Celtic gene' – as is widely supposed? (Not really, but it is safe to say that – a few rare exceptions aside - all red heads are MC1R variants that derive from European populations; the prevalence of these alleles is highest in Celtic countrie

How about these red heads for ancestors?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7062415.stm

 

[lucylocket61]

BUT WHAT ABOUT THE MAYONNAISE?????

very very important question here - I NEEEEEDDD mayonnaise !!!!!

 

[Grazer]

you could buy "Helmans paleo mayo"




If they made it.

 

[borofergie]

you could buy "Helmans paleo mayo"

If they made it.

Right. I'm telling the mods. You aren't allow to take the p(aelol)ith(ic) out of my diet...

 

[xyzzy]

Another red-head xyzzy!!!!!

Steve, I didn't know you were another of the redhead brigade on here, we seem to be a rather large group

Sorry to disappoint, fake I'm afraid, red henna and a curly perm :shock:. I'm a natural straight blond and just prior to that stage had very very long hair (bl**dy hippie). Afraid nowadays I have very little of my luscious locks left far less than Stephen. Mine all fell out in my 30's another thing my mum got right. :lol: In that pic my then employer had insisted I cut it short so he could take me out and about with him so I did and dyed it red, just to make a point.

 

[Unbeliever]

Wow Phoenix! My family album.! Yes I often feel that I belong to a dying breed
resumably Borofergie's photo shaows the beneficial effects of paleo mayonnaise on us Neanderthals?

So you were just a wannabee neanderthal Xyzzy?