Nothing (really) spikes me!

[Keith Saunders]

Long story short (ish). Diagnosed Nov' '23. with Hba1C of 55. Immediately slashed carbs. Two weeks later blagged Blood Glucose monitor and been testing regularly since. With the exception of the following 'meals' nothing has spiked me:

2 Slices of Sourdough with Mackeral Pate
Wholemeal Pasta with Mushrooms, Pepper & Cream Cheese
Pea & Ham soup (full tin) with slice of wholemeal bread

It's rare that my BG readings are over 6.5 (even after a takeaway - these are very rare btw). Indeed my average since I started is 5.8 (often lower).

Is this normal? Still trying to get my head around everything.

Thanks

 

[KennyA]

Hi - when you say "spiked" what exactly do you mean? What's your actual reading, and at what point? And what's your daily carb intake target, if you have one?

I'd expect to see my +2hr reading elevated (couldn't predict how much) with all of those meals you describe given the carb content - coming mainly from the bread, pasta, and probably the soup (they usually have carb thickeners and peas can be sugar bombs for some).

If you've really slashed carbs otherwise then you might not be seeing much change in your +2hr reading for other meals - a very low carb or carb-free meal won't do anything much to glucose levels and you could easily be back to baseline by 2 hours. I find that a carb-free meal with a reading at +2hrs can see me below my starting point.

In my experience, what you're seeing is a normal effect of a low carb lifestyle - no BG impact for low carb meals, BG impact for anything carbier.

 

[catinahat]

When are you testing, a Hba1c of 55 gives you an average blood sugar of well over 8mmol so it's possible that you are just missing the peaks.
An average of 6.5 mmol would get you a Hba1c of 40 which is not diabetic

 

[Paul_]

I won't repeat the points above around spikes/testing.

On those meals you listed, pasta and real deal bread are two things I tend to avoid since going low carb, I'm not surprised they caused higher BG readings for you.

On the topic of takeaways, it could be the high fat/protein effect, which slows down the digestion of carbs. Most takeaways are very high in one or both of those other macronutrients, which can sometimes cause the carbs to be digested slowly enough your BG levels don't significantly increase, or they can cause you to be at an elevated (not necessarily "spiked") level for a longer than ideal period of time, e.g. significantly longer than 2hrs.

Like you, since diagnosis takeaways have become a far less common meal choice for me. However, on the odd occasions I've had them, I find I naturally gravitate to "lower" carb options without really consciously doing so these days. Could that be the case for you too? Also, takeaway testing results (before and 2hrs after) has shown unexpected results, likely due to the fat/protein effect I mentioned before.

 

[Keith Saunders]

Hi - when you say "spiked" what exactly do you mean? What's your actual reading, and at what point? And what's your daily carb intake target, if you have one?

I'd expect to see my +2hr reading elevated (couldn't predict how much) with all of those meals you describe given the carb content - coming mainly from the bread, pasta, and probably the soup (they usually have carb thickeners and peas can be sugar bombs for some).

If you've really slashed carbs otherwise then you might not be seeing much change in your +2hr reading for other meals - a very low carb or carb-free meal won't do anything much to glucose levels and you could easily be back to baseline by 2 hours. I find that a carb-free meal with a reading at +2hrs can see me below my starting point.

In my experience, what you're seeing is a normal effect of a low carb lifestyle - no BG impact for low carb meals, BG impact for anything carbier.

Hi Kenny
Thanks for your response. 'Spiked' as far as I understand it, and how I am using the word, is an increase of 2 or more in my blood glucose readings between immediately before I eat and 2 hours after my first mouthful. So as an example the Mackeral Pate & Sourdough saw my glucose rise from 5.7 to 8.2. I have no target as such, but last week my average carb intake was 54g a day, this compares to around 300g a day prior to my diagnosis.

I note with interest as well how a carb free meal can see you measuring lower afterwards, I've found reading on occassion to be the same, or lower, and thought it was potentially a bad reading, so interesting to know it can happen.

Guess I just need to be ever more mindful on what can affect my BG to create those spikes. Thanks again!

 

[Keith Saunders]

When are you testing, a Hba1c of 55 gives you an average blood sugar of well over 8mmol so it's possible that you are just missing the peaks.
An average of 6.5 mmol would get you a Hba1c of 40 which is not diabetic

Thanks for the response. My testing has consisted of when I wake, before I eat, 2hrs after I've started eating. I don't test everyday now and when I do test it is mainly around when I eat something I've not eaten before since I started testing, so I can work out if I can eat it again or not.

Throughout those tests I've only had four readings over 8mmol, none over 8.5, rarely over 6.5 and overall averaging out at 5.8.

Appreciate that BG readings can't be directly translated to Hba1C (though it does give an indication). Guess I'm trying to work out if I am doing anything wrong, if I could be doing anything differently, if I'm on the right track in terms of controlling this illness rather than it controlling me. The whole thing gets me down, though I'm trying to not let it.

 

[Keith Saunders]

I won't repeat the points above around spikes/testing.

On those meals you listed, pasta and real deal bread are two things I tend to avoid since going low carb, I'm not surprised they caused higher BG readings for you.

On the topic of takeaways, it could be the high fat/protein effect, which slows down the digestion of carbs. Most takeaways are very high in one or both of those other macronutrients, which can sometimes cause the carbs to be digested slowly enough your BG levels don't significantly increase, or they can cause you to be at an elevated (not necessarily "spiked") level for a longer than ideal period of time, e.g. significantly longer than 2hrs.

Like you, since diagnosis takeaways have become a far less common meal choice for me. However, on the odd occasions I've had them, I find I naturally gravitate to "lower" carb options without really consciously doing so these days. Could that be the case for you too? Also, takeaway testing results (before and 2hrs after) has shown unexpected results, likely due to the fat/protein effect I mentioned before.

Really interesting points, thank you. Yes my choices even at takeaways have changed to try and cut out what might be seen as 'carbie', so no chips/rice/bread (or only very small portions).

 

[Guilty]

Looks like you've found meals that work really well for you. If you eat the ones that don't spike you more often than the ones that do you should have a much better A1c next time.

 

[gogobroom]

In general I am sort of similar to your findings, however I have to avoid potatoes, bread and pasta due to higher BG after 2 hours.

One thing to to think about is "time in range" certain foods may initially rise or spike your sugars in the first hour into double figures and then be back within 2 points of starting at 2 hours - these are generally missed on a finger prick test at post 2 hours but would show up when using a continuous Glucose monitor - it could be this effect that is raising your HbA1c - Non diabetics have initially spikes but return to normal afterwards as do diabetics but it can be the height of the rise that is the problem. By limiting the intake of some of these foods it is possible to reduce the HbA1c. I am still learning but having a CGM gives some fascinating data.

 

[KennyA]

Hi Kenny
Thanks for your response. 'Spiked' as far as I understand it, and how I am using the word, is an increase of 2 or more in my blood glucose readings between immediately before I eat and 2 hours after my first mouthful. So as an example the Mackeral Pate & Sourdough saw my glucose rise from 5.7 to 8.2. I have no target as such, but last week my average carb intake was 54g a day, this compares to around 300g a day prior to my diagnosis.

I note with interest as well how a carb free meal can see you measuring lower afterwards, I've found reading on occassion to be the same, or lower, and thought it was potentially a bad reading, so interesting to know it can happen.

Guess I just need to be ever more mindful on what can affect my BG to create those spikes. Thanks again!

Hi

I don't think the BG reading you describe is anywhere near a spike - it's a bit of an emotive word. Unfortunately there seems to be a growing tendency (largely since CGMs started to be a fashion accessory) for media/people to use "spike" to mean "BG rise".

So - those look like standard and understandable post-carb rises in BG to me. Eat carbs, BG will rise and hit its high point around 30 minutes to an hour after eating. You are not testing at +2 hrs to see "how high you go". The issue you're testing for is whether and how quickly your system clears excess glucose from your blood.

Example - one small latte will take me from 5.3 to 9.6 in 30 minutes. By two hours it's totally cleared and I'm back at 5.3. So as you'd expect my BG rises thanks to the lactose in the milk, but my system clears it quickly. You only have around 4g of glucose in your bloodstream at any point, so even relatively small increases or falls should trigger the liver to start adjusting it - either by adding more glucose or stimulating the pancreas to produce insulin. I'm attaching a CGM graph from a non-diabetic person, and you'll see normal and expect rises and falls in BG over the course of a day in response to various stimuli.

 

[Liverlad9]

Long story short (ish). Diagnosed Nov' '23. with Hba1C of 55. Immediately slashed carbs. Two weeks later blagged Blood Glucose monitor and been testing regularly since. With the exception of the following 'meals' nothing has spiked me:

2 Slices of Sourdough with Mackeral Pate
Wholemeal Pasta with Mushrooms, Pepper & Cream Cheese
Pea & Ham soup (full tin) with slice of wholemeal bread

It's rare that my BG readings are over 6.5 (even after a takeaway - these are very rare btw). Indeed my average since I started is 5.8 (often lower).

Is this normal? Still trying to get my head around everything.

Thanks

Great results and control

 

[Keith Saunders]

Hi

I don't think the BG reading you describe is anywhere near a spike - it's a bit of an emotive word. Unfortunately there seems to be a growing tendency (largely since CGMs started to be a fashion accessory) for media/people to use "spike" to mean "BG rise".

So - those look like standard and understandable post-carb rises in BG to me. Eat carbs, BG will rise and hit its high point around 30 minutes to an hour after eating. You are not testing at +2 hrs to see "how high you go". The issue you're testing for is whether and how quickly your system clears excess glucose from your blood.

Example - one small latte will take me from 5.3 to 9.6 in 30 minutes. By two hours it's totally cleared and I'm back at 5.3. So as you'd expect my BG rises thanks to the lactose in the milk, but my system clears it quickly. You only have around 4g of glucose in your bloodstream at any point, so even relatively small increases or falls should trigger the liver to start adjusting it - either by adding more glucose or stimulating the pancreas to produce insulin. I'm attaching a CGM graph from a non-diabetic person, and you'll see normal and expect rises and falls in BG over the course of a day in response to various stimuli.

The beauty of these forums is learning from others experiences and knowledge like this. Thank you so much for your feedback. Really helping in my understanding of things!

 

[catinahat]

I'm trying to work out if I am doing anything wrong, if I could be doing anything differently, if I'm on the right track in terms of controlling this illness rather than it controlling me. The whole thing gets me down, though I'm trying to not let it.

From your numbers and your testing regime I would say you're doing a pretty good job. It's common and only to be expected that your diagnosis causes doubts and fears for the future.
No one wants to be ill, but I don't think I'm alone in thinking that my diagnosis was the catalyst to a healthier and more fulfilling life.
I've gone from a overweight junk food eating, beer swilling, couch potato, with heart problems, high cholesterol, fatty liver and IBS. To someone who gets regular exercise, eats real food, I don't need a list of ingredients on my food , a pork chop is all pork and my steaks only contain cow.
I've lost weight, blood pressure/cholesterol are normal, my liver is no longer fatty and the IBS has gone.
I may not have added any years to my life but I have definitely added life to my years.

 

[Rachox]

As you are so interested in what foods do to your blood sugar levels, not a bad thing at all. You might find it interesting to use a Freestyle Libre to look for ‘spikes’ before the 2 hour mark or indeed afterwards. You can get a free 14 day trial from Abbott.

 

[Keith Saunders]

As you are so interested in what foods do to your blood sugar levels, not a bad thing at all. You might find it interesting to use a Freestyle Libre to look for ‘spikes’ before the 2 hour mark or indeed afterwards. You can get a free 14 day trial from Abbott.

Thanks. I think this is something I will look in to depending on the results of my Hba1C in March.

 

[AlexMagd]

Definitely recommend the Libre. Helps you avoid missing any major rises in blood sugar, and if you wear one long enough you get a rough estimate of what your next HbA1C will be - which can be quite helpful. Not cheap by any means - though with the money I've saved from not getting takeaways I can usually afford one!