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Obesity: How Prejudiced is the NHS?

Mr_Pot said:
Your analogy might be ok if you paid for private treatment but all taxpayers are paying for NHS treatment so it's not unreasonable to expect patients to make some effort themselves.
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I am searching for the person that does not have a peccadillo and is approved by the NHS. I think I will be searching for a long time.
I make an effort, I paid a high rate of taxes all of my working life although I will now hear from the other knockers who tell me I was lucky to do that.
I will never understand why crowd funding (taxes) excuses the NHS when it is a blame factory that keeps telling sick people that it was their fault. (OK it does a lot of good stuff too.)
 
Squire Fulwood said:
I will never understand why crowd funding (taxes) excuses the NHS when it is a blame factory that keeps telling sick people that it was their fault.
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If the patient is making themselves ill by their behavior, then it's logical to advise them to stop doing whatever it is that is making them ill.
 
Mr_Pot said:
If the patient is making themselves ill by their behavior, then it's logical to advise them to stop doing whatever it is that is making them ill.
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I agree, but when I went to the GP and told them I was eating "healthy" low GI and fruit and vegetables, I was told that there was no way that I was eating "healthy and exercising and still over weight. I felt so defeated. I wasn't sitting on the sofa eating cookies and chips but no one believed me.
What was healthy for someone with out Type 2 isn't for me.
 
Bluetit1802 said:
After watching one of TV programmes on diabetes when bariatric surgery was featured the patients had to follow a very low calorie diet akin to the Newcastle Diet for 6 weeks and lose weight before they were given the go ahead.

If they can manage this then why not the full ND and avoid the surgery?
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The ND is 800 calories per day, comprising 600 calls in optifast shakes and another 200 calls worth of non-starchy veg. Without going into the nutritional data too much, it's probably not far off 100g carb per day, so the chances are they are not in ketosis.

At the end of 8 weeks, they transition to a Mediterranean style reduced calorie diet - but not low carb in the way practised by many on this forum.

They are therefore missing out on the appetite-control benefits of a keto diet. They are probably low-sugar now, and for some that may be enough to curb appetite.... but for others, a low-sugar but moderate carb diet will stoke appetite.

IOW - some (not all) will struggle to stick with the protocol long term (though others will do well with it). They need they extra help that comes worthier from a keto diet, or the gastric surgery. Trouble is. The health care profession in general is warning them off keto.

I'd be interested to see the results of a survey as to what treatments or approaches doctors would be happy to recommend for their patients who need to lose weight. Would low carb be more or less popular than bariatric surgery?
 
I was not impressed by the program at all. The Dr had apparently not done her homework? If she had found out what the NHS dietary guidelines were/are she would have discovered the Eatwell Plate nonsense and realised why many did not lose weight when 'NHS' dieting. To be so keen on bariatric surgery when a sensible diet hasn't been followed first is pretty irresponsible of the NHS. There are risks with that surgery and it has a very high cost to the NHS. To suggest that it save diabetes spending in the longer-tern is bad accounting as the right diet might save even more. Yes, there are people like my wife who have an appetite that doesn't switch off after eating, but my wife applies a high degree of discipline as well as a low-carb diet to keep her weight down to a good BMI. There are obese people with mental health problems and they should be referred to charities such as Mind wherever possible. There will always be a few who must have the surgery regardless but I was very unimpressed by the attitude of the program.
 
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lindisfel said:
Thanks Zand, I'm pleased you got sorted, I don't think I would survive at 78 in June. My Afib is permanent but I don't have palpitations just missing beats or heart stopping moments. I got a pacemaker three years ago for bradicardia and repeated 4 Sec pauses over night , so I have a slow heartbeat but my pacemaker doesn't let it drop below 60bpm. I can walk 3miles OK but have bad days when I'm knackered! :) I'm on Pradaxa and eplerenone (the aldosterone antagonist) no other meds.best wishes ,D.
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Well that sounds pretty well controlled to me. :)
 
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Daibell said:
I was not impressed by the program at all. The Dr had not done her homework which she should have done. If she had found out what the NHS dietary guidelines were/are she would have discovered the Eatwell Plate nonsense and realised why many did not lose weight when 'NHS' dieting. To be so keen on bariatric surgery when a sensible diet hasn't been followed first is pretty irresponsible. There are risks with that surgery and it has a very high cost to the NHS. To suggest that it save diabetes spending in the longer-tern is bad accounting as the right diet might save even more. Yes, there are people like my wife who have an appetite that doesn't switch off after eating, but my wife applies a high degree of discipline as well as a low-carb diet to keep her weight down to a good BMI. There are obese people with mental health problems and they should be referred to charities such as Mind wherever possible. There will always be a few who must have the surgery regardless but I was very unimpressed by the cavalier attitude of the program Dr.
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I am the same, I have had this for nearly 40 years, many years ago I thought this happened to everyone and it was 'normal', being hungry 24/7 is horrible, but It's a way of life.
 
My understanding is that in order to be approved for bariatric surgery a person has to be over a hundred pounds over weight? I might be wrong with the exact number. I'm sure someone here knows.
What I would like to know is what do they suggest for those who have less to lose and wouldn't be eligible for surgery?
 
I would like to see the long term costs to the NHS of treating a patient after the bariatric surgery.

Not just the post surgery recovery period.
Also the following decades of potential malnutrition, digestive and colon issues through fibre restriction, raised risks of osteoporosis, special food choices, etc. etc.

And then there are the complications of the surgery itself. The risk of Dumping Syndrome, infection, Reactive Hypoglycaemia... and any psychological issues before and after surgery, including adjusting relationships to food.

To claim that a single procedure costing £xxx is a one off payment that saves the NHS money in the long run is disingenuous.

The true cost/person won't be visible for decades - assuming anyone bothers to collate the data.
 
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Hotpepper20000 said:
My understanding is that in order to be approved for bariatric surgery a person has to be over a hundred pounds over weight? I might be wrong with the exact number. I'm sure someone here knows.
What I would like to know is what do they suggest for those who have less to lose and wouldn't be eligible for surgery?
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Ahhh, well many years ago ( so things may have changed) I was told I needed to put on a stone in weight and then the NHS could help me. :rolleyes:
 
Brunneria said:
I would like to see the long term costs to the NHS of treating a patient after the bariatric surgery.

Not just the post surgery recovery period.
Also the following decades of potential malnutrition, digestive and colon issues through fibre restriction, raised risks of osteoporosis, special food choices, etc. etc.

And then there are the complications of the surgery itself. The risk of Dumping Syndrome, infection, Reactive Hypoglycaemia... and any psychological issues before and after surgery, including adjusting relationships to food.

To claim that a single procedure costing £xxx is a one off payment that saves the NHS money in the long run is ingenuous.

The true cost/person won't be visible for decades - assuming anyone bothers to collate the data.
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I friend of mine had surgery done. After losing 50% of her target weight it stopped. While she couldn't eat large portions in one sitting anymore she could still eat often and high calorie food. Ice cream and soft baked goods still went down easily.
 
Robinredbreast said:
I am the same, I have had this for nearly 40 years, many years ago I thought this happened to everyone and it was 'normal', being hungry 24/7 is horrible, but It's a way of life.
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I had that too. Its horrible. I was always consumed with where and what my next meal would be.
It wasn't until I cut back my carbs and increased fats that I felt satisfied before my plate was empty. I still can feel that way if I increase carbs. That's how I know that I have eaten too many.
 
Squire Fulwood said:
Happily I have owned automatics only for the last 40 years or so and I still expect the garage to fix it when I pay them.
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No good for me Squire, when I went to the States I never knew where to put my 'spare' foot and still remember affectionately double declutching on the old land rover I used to drive! Your obviously a member of the aristocracy and wouldn't miss funding your health care or cars! :) ;) Derek
 
Hotpepper20000 said:
My understanding is that in order to be approved for bariatric surgery a person has to be over a hundred pounds over weight? I might be wrong with the exact number. I'm sure someone here knows.
What I would like to know is what do they suggest for those who have less to lose and wouldn't be eligible for surgery?
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NICE guidelines are based on BMI - 40 or above, or 35 if you have health issues which would be improved by weight loss, e.g. T2D. For me at 5' 7" with T2D that's 15st 13lb or above.

Hey, I qualify!!
 
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