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Obesity, T2 and my right to eat the diet that will heal me

Discussion in 'Diabetes Soapbox - Have Your Say' started by zand, Aug 8, 2019.

  1. Tipetoo

    Tipetoo Type 2 · Expert

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    Beef cattle being rounded up for market.

    This landscape is typical for the majority of large cattle stations in the dry season in Australia, the cattle get to eat spinifex, red dirt, and rocks.

    [​IMG]
     
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  2. 1spuds

    1spuds Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Who told you that? Some 'expert'? Someone with an agenda? Certainly it was the media,do you trust the media? I dont.Hate to say it but scientists often arent.They are tools,a whole lot of them.A scientist will lie like a politician when they are not getting funded,their lifeblood.
     
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  3. 1spuds

    1spuds Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    So when there is no meat,what are we??
     
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  4. 1spuds

    1spuds Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Friend was a researcher at a large university training hospital.They did a study on autopsy of soldiers killed in VietNam who were from southern California,very smoggy at the time.The found lung damage equal to smoking 2 packs a day,Gov wasnt happy.Media wasnt happy.So they did a follow up study,same results.

    All their research funding stopped,all of it.It was a decade to get funded again,it was a HUGE financial hit.They never did another study that didnt promote the governments line.They were completely compromised. Thats how the real world works for scientists and funding.
     
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  5. lucylocket61

    lucylocket61 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Just suppose we all went vegan or similar, and the world population continues to grow - what is going to happen in 15 years time? We are not solving problems, we are delaying solutions.

    Much of the UK and other countries non-arable land is not suitable for anything other than cattle grazing. The animals manage the fields and hills sustainably. The land doesnt turn into an idyllic garden if not grazed, and without the animal manure to fertilize it, the soil erodes and land becomes barren.

    Also, it takes around 5 years to turn non-arable suitable land into fertile soil capable of producing crops. And I have yet to find sustainable alternatives to animal manure for fertilizing which doesn not itself need many acres of arable land to produce green manure.
     
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  6. Listlad

    Listlad Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    Why choose? If we do not make some choices then the inevitable will happen. My (educated) take on it is that the real culprit in the mix is not so much livestock as fossil fuels. I have good reason to say that, but will spare the detail as it is not within the remit of the thread. If the world’s population can reign back on the consumption of fossil fuels then no need to reign back on livestock and meat eating.

    So, to borrow a term used on this forum, the planet can achieve remission by consuming less fossil fuels, thereby not having to forego meat eating. The choice is ours to take.
     
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    #26 Listlad, Aug 9, 2019 at 3:19 AM
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2019
  7. Listlad

    Listlad Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    Distilling down you are referring to overconsumption, particularly in the west. Much of your posting in this thread mirrors my mother in law’s employer’s lifetime active campaign. ( I haven’t heard his take on livestock in these matters ). So, many of the points you have raised, he has actively worked on, lectures, seminars, community awareness, government consultation to say the least. His voice is heard and with a degree of success but not nearly enough. Intergenerational responsibility underpins his message and that message has got through. Reversing deforestation in his own country was a landmark legal case of his brought about by applying an ingenious piece of legal precedent. Intergenerational responsibility was at the heart of that case. So @zand , I am with you on all of that. But we do have many choices to make and livestock levels and the consumption of meat sits in amongst them.

    Get the other factors in order and we and our children will not have to touch livestock levels.
     
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    #27 Listlad, Aug 9, 2019 at 3:56 AM
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2019
  8. zand

    zand Type 2 · Expert

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    Exactly.
     
  9. Mbaker

    Mbaker Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    Could you imagine the mineral content of the end result. It will take a sober tabled Congress to discuss this type of scenario which is true for sheep as well, who can literally turn unsuitable land into well maintained pasture, something for nothing.
    These discussions can appear quite visceral and maybe extreme. Like how dare we question the experts. This is not the same as being taught maths at school where we all know trig is absolute. I remember when I was growing up the prep my Mum would do the day before cooking kidney and red eye beans / peas and the continual washing of rice, the mix of coconut cream, some cultures prepare legumes for up to 5 days to prevent the tummy issues, these processes do not exist in the main. I do not want tinned items that have sat on a shelf for months of these "foods". It is so easy to cook a steak and the like and get the perfect ratios of fat, protein and essential nutrients, so let's get the facts on the table without bias.
     
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  10. Flora123

    Flora123 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I totally agree @zand. Having been veggie pre DX, I am now almost carnivore and feeling fabulous! I get fed up with the propaganda out there. In addition to various things mentioned above, we need to eat and produce less. We produce far too much and there is so much waste. Watch GMO,OMG on Amazon. It’s excellent!
     
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  11. zand

    zand Type 2 · Expert

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    And this is what happens when bad science and propaganda go hand in hand.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-49321560

    I fear that very soon I won't be able to eat the diet of my choice. I will however still be able to fly wherever I want to go and buy all manner of unnecessary goods. What a messed up world we live in when profit is more important than the planet, when leisure is more important than food. I really can't believe that folks think that stopping eating beef will help reduce global warming. There's plenty of things to be done, but hey, let's all focus on killing the cows, I am sure we will feel a whole lot better knowing we are doing something. The fact that that 'something' isn't going to help at all is irrelevant.

    It reminds me of the plastic bag debacle. As I am sure you remember M&S were the first to charge for plastic bags in the UK. I wrote to them commenting that I thought this wasn't about saving the planet at all, but more about profits and image, they wanted to be 'seen to be doing something'. Then the tax on plastic bags came into force. One day I was killing time in M&S, not really planning to buy anything, but I found a T-shirt I liked. I had to pay the 5p tax on the bag as I hadn't taken one with me, not expecting to have been going shopping. I wrote to M&S again saying that since they were the first to charge for bags I would have thought that they would be supplying strong paper bags so that they no longer needed to supply us with the 5p plastic ones. After all, if a bag is bad for the planet it is bad whether or not you pay nothing, 5p or £1 for it. The reply came back that they had looked into this issue and found that strong paper bags were actually worse than plastic ones for the environment because of the way they were made etc and transport costs (environmental costs to the planet) being greater because they were bulkier. I in turn replied and said thank you for pointing that out. I now realised how much I was damaging the planet, and just think if a bag does so much damage, how much more damage does all the merchandise I had been buying over the years do to the environment? I would be much more frugal in future and wouldn't be troubling them for bags or anything else again.

    People felt virtuous by reusing bags because that's what they were told to do, yet still went on buying the same things they would have done without a further thought for the planet. Not using plastic bags won't save the planet and nor will encouraging the world to go vegan. But hey, many will feel they are doing something and so feel good about themselves. Meanwhile global warming will continue until we wake up and realise that we humans are causing it, not the animals we eat.

    Tonight I am going out for a meal. I will choose beef because very soon I may not be afforded that choice.
     
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  12. Goonergal

    Goonergal Type 2 · Moderator
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  13. lucylocket61

    lucylocket61 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Around here, out of 99 applications for new or larger chicken farms, 98 of them have now been approved. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-44108740 I do wonder about the environmental impact of these as a whole.

    I wonder if chicken will be replacing beef? I must say that beef and lamb fill me up and keep my sugars stable for longer than chicken, but that is just my experience.
     
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  14. tayelola

    tayelola Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Read through contributions on obesity-t2 .....very interesting and educative. Thanks to all the contributors.
     
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  15. zand

    zand Type 2 · Expert

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    Thought I would add 2 links to this thread.

    This first is one of the reasons I started the thread and contains the proposal to change much of the UKs land to trees and growing biofuels in an effort to combat global warming. This would mean a lot less dairy farming and beef farming, which would definitely impact on my diet and my health.

    https://www.theccc.org.uk/wp-conten...and-preparing-for-climate-change-CCC-2018.pdf

    The second is an alternative, and to my mind a much more sensible approach to make farming more environmentally friendly.

    http://www.bbc.com/future/bespoke/follow-the-food/the-clean-farming-revolution/
     
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  16. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Guru

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    From what I read a couple of weeks ago, the future will see beef and sheep farming disappear. The land will be used to grow trees and make forests. Our meat will come from limited amounts of pork and chicken. Vegetables, fruit, and arable crops will be grown in massive greenhouses with tiers in them, so the crops can be grown on the top of each other. This is supposed to feed the world with its ever increasing population.

    I mentioned on another thread - the solution could be to euthanise everyone of pension age and eat them. That would solve many problems this country has. (I am being facetious by the way).
     
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  17. Mr_Pot

    Mr_Pot Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I can remember the predictions that we would only need to work a 3 day week and wouldn't know what to do with all our leisure time, that there would be no paper in offices and we would have flying cars, that by now global warming would mean we could grow tropical fruits in England. So I am cynical about predictions.
     
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  18. zand

    zand Type 2 · Expert

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    Yes I remember being told those things too.
    However if enough people believe the predictions then actions will be taken which could be very harmful to our farmimg industry. The perceived threat of increasing global warmimg together with the unproven assertion that a vegan diet is healthier for everyone could wreak havoc on the countryside and our health.
     
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  19. Mike D

    Mike D Type 2 · Expert

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    Mighty oaks @zand ...
     
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  20. copilost

    copilost Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    oh yes! My brother and I use this phrase as shorthand every time we talk about another stupid thing that's happening in the world that we simply ought to be doing better. "Where are the flying cars, that's what I'd like to know?":)

    I'm more cynical about some predictions than others. In particular the ones that tell me I don't need to worry, everything's OK and it's not happening, when the evidence appears to point to the contrary. (Banking crisis anyone?)

    Also cynical of corresponding "advice" that says it's my responsibility to "do" something about the thing (that isn't happening) when it's obviously a political problem that needs a coordinated political response. (e.g. problem was irresponsible house buyers not crazy interest rates, irresponsible (bankrupt) banks, inadequate social housing).

    It's quite clear to me that this "food thing" is incredibly political and we shouldn't be trusting a word anyone with a conflict of interest is saying. I'm just a little surprised how deep and widespread that conflict of interest is.:wideyed:
    CoP
     
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