Over Diagnosis?

[Defren]

I think we would all love that, but surely our Doctors can't be wrong - all of them! Since landshark seems an absolute authority on this, I shall go and have a fish and chips for dinner, followed by a curry with a huge mound of rice for supper, with a load of bread as snacks in between, seeing as we all over indulge and are all misdiagnosed!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: I'll bring the Doorstep white bread jam sandwiches and the Kendal mint cake!! We're all cured i tell you!! :lol:

Kendal mint cake - drool. I like this cure Paul :lol:

 

[Defren]

Landshark
I objct to the following statement you made; yes there is Type 2 (it is called over indulgence and/or poor diet);
Hana

Don't let him upset you Hana love. Seems our former expert is not nearly as expert as he likes to think he is.

 

[jopar]

Interesting thread for various reasons... I shalln't go into...

One of the considerations behind where to set the point where one became a T2 diabetic is partly based on Medical Insurance (namely the Americans) as being diagnosed as diabetic's does have implications concerning medical insurance and life insurance etc... So several years ago they came up with 'pre-diabetes' those who came in the area just before the line of diagnoses had been drawn...

Now yes people do run at different blood glucose levels, hence why for the non-diabetic also has a HbA1c range, which is somewhere between 4% to 5.9% Most non-diabetic's however will fall into the lower end of the range.. These figures aren't based on one off research study, by a continuous study/data collection every year.. Where they take several groups of people around the world then analysis this data for comparison..

As 80% of T2 diabetics are overweight when diagnosed, kinda suggest that over indulgence is at play, but whether this is purely because they have poor diet etc is another thing.. There's other medical conditions and drug therapies to consider for a start... But if somebody is diagnosed, requires medication to reduce blood glucose then loses weight and no longer requires medication to control the blood glucose then over indulgence probably was a problem... But even here doesn't mean that they eat unhealthily, just means that the ate more than they needed to maintain their bodies at a healthy weight..

 

[borofergie]

As 80% of T2 diabetics are overweight when diagnosed, kinda suggest that over indulgence is at play, but whether this is purely because they have poor diet etc is another thing..

Altogether now:
"Correlation does not imply causation"

The smart money these days is on a common genetic cause that leads to both T2 Diabetes and Obesity.

 

[Defren]

As 80% of T2 diabetics are overweight when diagnosed, kinda suggest that over indulgence is at play, but whether this is purely because they have poor diet etc is another thing..

Altogether now:
"Correlation does not imply causation"

The smart money these days is on a common genetic cause that leads to both T2 Diabetes and Obesity.

I agree for the simple reason if being overweight was the catalyst for diabetes, then all diabetics would be fat slim people wouldn't get it, and as we all know that is not the case.

 

[shop]

It also seems to me that alot of T2s have also got an underactive thyroid. This also causes weight gain!!! Has this been considered at all?

Do not agree with people making sweeping statements!! Lets be honest it bad enough the media pigeon holeing diabetics with being overweight etc. It may be the case in some instances however I have learnt in the short time that I have been on this forum that not everything is black and white!!!

Encouragement is whats needed not attacks and generalisations!!!!

 

[Paul1976]

These stereotypes that all Diabetics brought on their condition by eating cream cakes and stuffing their faces are so damaging! :thumbdown: I've had remarks like "That'll teach you for eating lots of sweets as a kid" :***:

 

[borofergie]

Does anyone else have any offensive stereotypes they want to get out of their system?

The irony of it all is that it was a so called "low-fat" healthy diet that got me overweight in the first place. As soon as I started eating unhealthy "high-fat" it all dropped off. Go figure.

 

[lucylocket61]

I believe that my obesity was caused, or at least a big culpr causing it, was my earlier, undiagnosed Diabetes.

I believe this because for 42 years of my life I was slim. Then I had a severe illness and became pre-diabetic. Then, in the space of 2 years I put on 9 stones and have had to diet continuously for 7 years just to keep my weight stable.

Now I am treating the underlying insulin problems, I have lost 15lbs in 8 weeks. And I am eating more, but differently.

So, in my case, the pre-diabetes seems to have made me fat, not the other way round.

And I have never stuffed myself the way the media says fat people do. Never.

 

[smidge]

Does anyone else have any offensive stereotypes they want to get out of their system?

Ooh is that an open invitation or does it have to be diabetes-related? Perhaps this should be a whole new thread of its own - the forum has been far to placid and non-confrontational lately. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Smidge

 

[jopar]

As 80% of T2 diabetics are overweight when diagnosed, kinda suggest that over indulgence is at play, but whether this is purely because they have poor diet etc is another thing..

Altogether now:
"Correlation does not imply causation"

The smart money these days is on a common genetic cause that leads to both T2 Diabetes and Obesity.

Seems as though Bonofergie has been cherry picking sentences!

Here's the full paragraph his misleading quote is taken from, sounds a lot different when it's put in context

"As 80% of T2 diabetics are overweight when diagnosed, kinda suggest that over indulgence is at play, but whether this is purely because they have poor diet etc is another thing.. There's other medical conditions and drug therapies to consider for a start... But if somebody is diagnosed, requires medication to reduce blood glucose then loses weight and no longer requires medication to control the blood glucose then over indulgence probably was a problem... But even here doesn't mean that they eat unhealthily, just means that the ate more than they needed to maintain their bodies at a healthy weight.."

As you can see, when read in context of the paragraph, what seem's to be stereo typical view, actually isn't...

 

[Paul1976]

The ignorant person who made the comment to me about me "Eating too many sweets as a child" was my own Aunty as well!! I had to go to the back of the garden for an hour afterwards as I was so upset and speechless but it seems she isn't alone in her thinking because of these misconceptions in the media and elsewhere,just look at the portrayal of a diabetic in Emmerdale,Sandy Thomas who in recent years has been shown to eat what he wants and drink the pub dry and some people may then think that's how we all are Sorry if I seem like I'm ranting but I just get so upset when people think we brought this all on ourselves!

 

[borofergie]

Seems as though Bonofergie has been cherry picking sentences!

Let me be absolutely clear Jo, I don't think that "over-indulgence" (however you try to justify it) plays any part in T2 Diabetes, which as you know is a serious lifelong (and potentially life threatening) condition.

Nobody wants to hear that they did this to themselves through "over indulgence", especially when it patently isn't true. If you didn't mean to suggest that some people got T2 through "over-indulgence" then fine, but you should try to choose your words more carefully.

 

[Anonymous]

The ignorant person who made the comment to me about me "Eating too many sweets as a child" was my own Aunty as well!! I had to go to the back of the garden for an hour afterwards as I was so upset and speechless but it seems she isn't alone in her thinking because of these misconceptions in the media and elsewhere,just look at the portrayal of a diabetic in Emmerdale,Sandy Thomas who in recent years has been shown to eat what he wants and drink the pub dry and some people may then think that's how we all are Sorry if I seem like I'm ranting but I just get so upset when people think we brought this all on ourselves!

People will continue with that line of thought though Paul. Every week on Super size versus super skinny, the doctor says how people get type 2 when they are over weight. Thee is no chance of change. There is never any mention that there are skinny type 2`s, just we are all super morbidly obese with our feet being hacked off.

 

[shop]

I so agree Paul.When I was young I could eat what I wanted and not put on weight. That doesnt mean that I didnt eat a healthy balanced diet. The majority of the time my weight fluctuations have been as a direct result of my failing endocrine system. Aged 29 7st/ overactive thyroid went dwn to 6st./ had carbimazole twice over 2 yrs, up to 7 1/2 stone. Had radio iodine treatment ........went up to 10 stone as had then developed an underactive thyroid. lost weight and got to 9 stn. 8 1/2 stn after having a baby. Lost more weight to 7 1/2 stn and found out T1.

Since being on insulin my weight had crept up............This is the 1st time I have been responsible for my weight gain. My insulin kept being put up so I would eat more carbs so not to have a hypo and so it spiralled out of control. Last summer I was back up to 10st ( I am only 5'2. ) I decided to loose wight simply by portion reduction as the contents of my diet was healthy. ( The carbs just got out of control. ) I am now Between 8 1/2 and 9 stn. and am carb counting too. Fell better than I have done in a long time!

It annoys me when people make these damaging statements because we as adults know that it is just ignorance on their part. But what about the Kids who are diagnosed they have enough to deal with without beimg inaccurately labelled.

Rant over!!

 

[jopar]

Bonofergie

How does one chose their words carefully?

Don't forget I may be a T1 but I am still Tarred with the Same Brush!

If I hadn't chosen my words carefully, then I wouldn't have followed through with an explanation of why the stereo typical image doesn't always fit...

 

[borofergie]

Bonofergie

How does one chose their words carefully?

Don't forget I may be a T1 but I am still Tarred with the Same Brush!

If I hadn't chosen my words carefully, then I wouldn't have followed through with an explanation of why the stereo typical image doesn't always fit...

Here you go:
"But if somebody is diagnosed, requires medication to reduce blood glucose then loses weight and no longer requires medication to control the blood glucose then over indulgence probably was a problem..."

Why, if someone loses weight and comes of their medication (as I have), was "over-indulgence probably the problem"?

Over-indulgence certainly wasn't my problem. My problem is a genetic intolerance to carbohydrate, combined with patently wrong dietary advice from the NHS (and the Government) which told me to eat a "healthy" low-fat (and therefore high-carb diet). Since diagnosis I've lost 4 stone (and come off all my meds), not by being less-indulgent, but by following a supposedly unhealthy "high-fat" diet.

Can you see that indulgence has nothing to do with it, and why your comment might seem offensive to those of us for which "over-indulgence was probably the problem"?

Having seen you photo Jo, I'd be very surprised if anyone accused you of causing your diabetes through over-indulgent eating.

If I hadn't chosen my words carefully, then I wouldn't have followed through with an explanation of why the stereo typical image doesn't always fit...

The stereotypical image doesn't ever fit. That's the point.

 

[xyzzy]

requires medication to reduce blood glucose then loses weight and no longer requires medication to control the blood glucose then over indulgence probably was a problem...

That is a very loaded sentence Jo and one I find most offensive. Didn't you mean to write something like this?

requires medication to reduce blood glucose then loses weight and no longer requires medication to control the blood glucose then gaining weight was a problem...

What you term the very insulting term over indulgence could just as easily be some genetic trait that causes weight gain or some environmental factor that similarly causes weight gain. Alternatively other theories abound that relate the onset of T2 to stress and such like.

Also surely any theory that cited over indulgence would have to account for why all overweight people are not T2's.

I really cannot believe you meant the statement in the manner it implies. Please confirm to me and all the other T2's you didn't mean it in that way.

 

[Anonymous]

I get annoyed at how it's promoted that type 2 is due to lifestyle..... what they fail to tell the public is that the 'lifestyle' bit only accounts for 60% of diagnosed type 2 cases. I'm a person that fits into the remaining 40% but we never get a mention do we :roll: .... type 2 isn't just caused by lifestyle... that's a myth. I happened to have pcos which is a precursor to getting type 2 for a woman.... and I was diagnosed young too... when at the time it was called "mature onset diabetes". If people need educating about diabetes... they need to be educated correctly. I'm not sure about the over diagnosis part.... but I reckon the monitoring part could be improved dramatically across the board. I tell everyone I know to ensure they ask their doc to regularly check their sugar levels.

 

[Grazer]

[mod edit daisy1 inappropriate remark removed]

Or do you secretly think Stephen is Midge Ure?