Pasta Confusion

[BottyBurp]

Hi All

Sorry to be dense, but I'm really confused...

I *think* I've read that carbs are bad for me, but I think I've also read that starchy carbs are good for me?

My wife is a keen runner and she cooks loads and loads of pasta as this is what she needs.

My BS levels were 17 last night and 14.4 this morning.

Should I be eating pasta?

Cheers

Cliff

 

[sweetLea]

Pasta is high carb. We low carbers give it a miss along with spuds and rice and bread. Your numbers are high so you really do need to get those carbs down. What is your typical day's meals?
Welcome. Good to have you with us here.

 

[borofergie]

Hi All

Sorry to be dense, but I'm really confused...

I *think* I've read that carbs are bad for me, but I think I've also read that starchy carbs are good for me?

My wife is a keen runner and she cooks loads and loads of pasta as this is what she needs.

My BS levels were 17 last night and 14.4 this morning.

Should I be eating pasta?

Cheers

Cliff

Probably not.

Pasta, bread, rice, flour, sugar, potatoes are high in carbohydrates (which is why your wife likes eating them to fuel her running). You might be able to handle some of them in very small portions, but the best advice would be to steer clear.

The NHS will tell you that starchy carbs are good for you but, as you seen, your meter will tell you that they are very, very, bad for a diabetic. I'd actually question whether they are good for anyone, but that's a whole other argument.

 

[Grazer]

Just to confirm and agree with others - starchy carbs are the worst for us - they raise blood sugar very quickly. That means they give lots of instant energy, but we can't handle them. I do eat small amounts of pasta, but tend to go for the tricolor fusilli pasta you can get which is better - lower on the glycemic index, (GI) so doesn't give us quite such a quick high. Still not great, just a bit better!

 

[daisy1]

Hi Cliff
To see if you can eat pasta you need to test before and 2 hours after eating and these results should be approximately the same. If they are not you will have to reduce the portion size or you may find that you cannot eat it at all. I personally can eat just a very small portion of it. To help you generally to look after your diabetes, here is the information which we give to new members and I hope it is helpful to you as your levels need to be lower. You may already have seen it since you have been a member for some time but it has been modified. Ask further questions when you need to as someone will always help.

BASIC INFORMATION FOR NEW MEMBERS


Diabetes is the general term to describe people who have blood that is sweeter than normal. A number of different types of diabetes exist.

A diagnosis of diabetes tends to be a big shock for most of us. It’s far from the end of the world though and on this forum you’ll find well over 30,000 people who are demonstrating this.

On the forum we have found that with the number of new people being diagnosed with diabetes each day, sometimes the NHS is not being able to give all the advice it would perhaps like to deliver - particularly with regards to people with type 2 diabetes.

The role of carbohydrate

Carbohydrates are a factor in diabetes because they ultimately break down into sugar (glucose) within our blood. We then need enough insulin to either convert the blood sugar into energy for our body, or to store the blood sugar as body fat.

If the amount of carbohydrate we take in is more than our body’s own (or injected) insulin can cope with, then our blood sugar will rise.

The bad news

Research indicates that raised blood sugar levels over a period of years can lead to organ damage, commonly referred to as diabetic complications.

The good news

People on the forum here have shown that there is plenty of opportunity to keep blood sugar levels from going too high. It’s a daily task but it’s within our reach and it’s well worth the effort.

Controlling your carbs

The info below is primarily aimed at people with type 2 diabetes, however, it may also be of benefit for other types of diabetes as well.
There are two approaches to controlling your carbs:

• Reduce your carbohydrate intake
• Choose ‘better’ carbohydrates

Reduce your carbohydrates
A large number of people on this forum have chosen to reduce the amount of carbohydrates they eat as they have found this to be an effective way of improving (lowering) their blood sugar levels.

The carbohydrates which tend to have the most pronounced effect on blood sugar levels tend to be starchy carbohydrates such as rice, pasta, bread, potatoes and similar root vegetables, flour based products (pastry, cakes, biscuits, battered food etc) and certain fruits.

Choosing better carbohydrates

Another option is to replace ‘white carbohydrates’ (such as white bread, white rice, white flour etc) with whole grain varieties. The idea behind having whole grain varieties is that the carbohydrates get broken down slower than the white varieties –and these are said to have a lower glycaemic index.
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/food/diabetes ... rains.html

The low glycaemic index diet is often favoured by healthcare professionals but some people with diabetes find that low GI does not help their blood sugar enough and may wish to cut out these foods altogether.

Read more on carbohydrates and diabetes

Eating what works for you

Different people respond differently to different types of food. What works for one person may not work so well for another. The best way to see which foods are working for you is to test your blood sugar with a glucose meter.

To be able to see what effect a particular type of food or meal has on your blood sugar is to do a test before the meal and then test after the meal. A test 2 hours after the meal gives a good idea of how your body has reacted to the meal.

The blood sugar ranges recommended by NICE are as follows:

Blood glucose ranges for type 2 diabetes

• Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 8.5 mmol/l

Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (adults)

• Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 9 mmol/l

Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (children)

• Before meals: 4 to 8 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 10 mmol/l

However, those that are able to, may wish to keep blood sugar levels below the NICE after meal targets.

Access to blood glucose test strips
The NICE guidelines suggest that people newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes should be offered:

• structured education to every person and/or their carer at and around the time of diagnosis, with annual reinforcement and review
• self-monitoring of plasma glucose to a person newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes only as an integral part of his or her self-management education

Therefore both structured education and self-monitoring of blood glucose should be offered to people with type 2 diabetes. Read more on getting access to blood glucose testing supplies.

You may also be interested to read questions to ask at a diabetic clinic

Note: This post has been edited from Sue/Ken's post to include up to date information.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please sign our e-petition for free testing for all type 2's; here's the link:
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/petition/

Do get your friends and colleagues to sign as well.

 

[BottyBurp]

Firstly, many thanks for your replies... I'm grateful for your input...

Secondly, this link here: http://www.diabetes.co.uk/diet/nhs-diet-advice.html says:

"Together, these can be said to sum up the NHS approach to controlling type 2 diabetes with diet.

Eat plenty of starchy carbohydrates"

Hence my confusion...

 

[Grazer]

Yes, that is indeed the NHS recomendation. It's just that most of us disagree with it, having proved the effect of it with our meters!

 

[BottyBurp]

Yes, that is indeed the NHS recomendation. It's just that most of us disagree with it, having proved the effect of it with our meters!

So I'm not being a total dunderhead here?

I've noticed over the last few weeks/months that my BS has risen since the wife has been on this pasta diet, but I attributed that to maybe me doing less exercise over the winter months...

I'll have a look to see what else I can eat to substitute pasta - any recommendations?

Thanks again for your responses - I do appreciate it...

 

[BottyBurp]

Pasta is high carb. We low carbers give it a miss along with spuds and rice and bread. Your numbers are high so you really do need to get those carbs down. What is your typical day's meals?
Welcome. Good to have you with us here.

Typically, and without telling any lies, Weetabix for breakfast with a sprinkling of sugar, a sarnie of varying description from Tesco's for lunch and then some sort of pasta dish as cooked by the wife...

 

[MaryJ]

Hiya

You may not need to eliminate it altogther

I can have 30g of pasta and 30g of rice (different meals lol)

so i can eat same meals as hubby but less of the carbs more of the meat,veg,sauce

the only way to know is to test test and test again

I would definately have high readings with the day you've mentioned. No carbs for me in the morning at all! salad for lunch no carbs bar whats in the salad veg's and either ANOTHER salad or meat or fish with veg, spag bol, chilli rice for dinner

working for me

 

[borofergie]

Typically, and without telling any lies, Weetabix for breakfast with a sprinkling of sugar, a sarnie of varying description from Tesco's for lunch and then some sort of pasta dish as cooked by the wife...

So that's carbs for breakfast, carbs for lunch and carbs for dinner...

If you go to Tescos for lunch, why don't you get half a rotisserie chicken and some salad. That's a far more filling lunch, and is almost carb free.

As an alternative to pasta, why don't you make an aubergine lasagne, that uses strips of of aubergine in place of pasta sheets.

How far is your wife running? Unless she is preparing for a marathon, I doubt that she'd need to eat pasta every night.

 

[Grazer]

Pasta is high carb. We low carbers give it a miss along with spuds and rice and bread. Your numbers are high so you really do need to get those carbs down. What is your typical day's meals?
Welcome. Good to have you with us here.

Typically, and without telling any lies, Weetabix for breakfast with a sprinkling of sugar, a sarnie of varying description from Tesco's for lunch and then some sort of pasta dish as cooked by the wife...

That would give most of us high blood sugars. A few tips:-
Cut out the "sprinkling of sugar". Instabt sugar in your veins! You can sprinkle canderelk or some other sweetener if you need.
If you have a sarnie, have it with Burgen soya and linseed (not their other make) bread - lower in carbs, and low GI so your sugars will rise slower and not so high. You can buy it at sainsburys and tescos, and probably other stores. Doesn't taste bad, and not expensive. I freeze the whole loaf to keep it fresh, and just chip off the slices I need.
Pasta bake - have a little as mentioned above, preferably the fusilli tricolor, or better, replace it with a few boiled NEW potatos, the baby ones, (not the old king teds or maris pipers - too starchy). You can still have whatever sauce she's having with hers.
You've GOT to cut out the big pasta intake, or you're heading for continuous high blood sugar levels and increasing levels of meds to handle them.
Overall, here is some advice I sometimes give to new people, based on what helped me, which might help you:-
. In general terms you will need to reduce the total number of carbohydrates you eat per day. All carbohydrates turn to sugar when we eat them, and no type 2 diabetic on diet only, or on diet and metformin only, can control their blood sugars (BGs) without controlling their carb intake. Even those on strong medication normally choose to control their carb intake to keep the level of medication they take down. The total number of carbs per day you can eat depends on how advanced your diabetes is. It’s perhaps worth starting at about 50% of normal levels for a non-diabetic then adjusting up or down according to how you get on. That’s 150 grams of carbs per day for a man, 125 for a woman. You can read the total carb content of food under “nutritional info” on the packet or wrapping, or look it up on the internet for loose food. Just google “carb content..”
You also need to stop or reduce the bad carbs; that is the starchy ones that make your BG go up quickly.
So obviously no sugar or glucose! But also no white bread, white rice, pasta, flour products like pastry, cake and batter. You can eat a little basmati rice, wholewheat pasta or the tri-color pasta fusilli ones in small quantities. Boiled new potatos are OK but not old pots mashed, boiled or in their jackets. (Roast is not so bad, the fat slows their absorption and conversion to glucose in the blood) Amongst other veg, parsnips are about the worst for BG, and carrots not great but ok in smaller amounts.
Multi grain bread (not wholemeal) is not SO bad, but lots of us eat Burgen soya and linseed bread from tescos and sainsburys, although all bread should be in limited amounts.
All fruit has carbohydrates, and needs to be included in the amounts of carbs you eat in a day. For most people, bananas are about the worst for pushing our BG up and berries (like strawberries, raspberries etc) are the least bad.
No sweeties!
Exercise is important. I tend to exercise about an hour after eating when I know my BG will be peaking. This helps to bring it down quicker and further. I do ten minutes hard work on an exercise machine, but you could run up and down stairs for ten minutes or go for a brisk walk.
Returning to types of food and quantities of carbs - you can only find out how many you can eat by testing. Most type 2’s are not given access to testing equipment, so you should get your own – although try arguing with your Doc that you want to manage to NICE guideline blood sugar levels, and can’t do that without testing! If you have to buy a meter, they are cheap and most manufacturers will give them away for free. They make their money on the strips you have to use! So go for the meter with the cheapest testing strips. Some people test before and after eating, on waking (fasting test) and before bed. But if you have limited strips because of cost, the key to me is testing 2 hours after eating. If your BG is above, say, 7.8 at that stage, you need to cut down on the carb content the next time you have that meal. Test after various different meals and you soon get to see a pattern of what you can and can’t eat, and in what quantities. You can then reduce your testing. I said “below, say, 7.8” because NICE guidelines are below 8.5 but most of us think that’s a little high. 7.8 is the max. Level at 2 hours after eating that a non-diabetic normally gets to so is perhaps a better target. Some then set progressively lower targets.
Do ask lots of questions; there is normally an answer on here. The more you get to learn about your diabetes, the better it will be.
Good luck!

 

[MadMat]

Switching to wholemeal pasta might also help, also I've read, but not actually tested that eating it "al dente" rather than well done, and choosing thicker pastas such as Conchiglie as opposed to "thin" pasta like spaghetti will help avoid spikes as it takes longer to digest.

Mat

 

[Grazer]

Sorry Stephen, I was writing while you were posting! Basically the same advice though, as one would expect!

 

[borofergie]

I agree with Grazer, pick a daily carb amount and try to stick with it and see what impact it has on your BG.

150g a day is a good place to start, although you might find that you can tolerate less, or maybe tolerate more.

 

[xyzzy]

Hi BottyBurp, welcome to the forum.

Agree as usual with Grazers and Borofergies excellent advice. Just to reassure you further if you lived in a more enlightened country like Sweden or Germany then that 120-150g carbohydrate level would be told to you by your doctor. The trouble is the NHS lags behind and still tells you dietary information from 40 years ago. Other countries would tell you information based of research done this century. It really is such a shame.

 

[phoenix]

2 things
Glycaemic index
Pasta is lowish GI but only if cooked al dente and made from dried pasta .It's the manufacturing process, fresh and home made pasta are higher. Low GI means that the starches are more slowly absorbed giving the insulin you produce a chance to deal with it gradually.
If you cook it until it's soft the starches become much more easily absorbed, (so higher GI)
If you use a creamy sauce this will also lower the GI (controversial: you could use a small amount of olive oil in the sauce in preference to a lot of cheese)
Wholemeal pasta isn't necessarily lower GI but it has much more fibre and nutrients than white pasta .
Portion size
The portion size on my packet of pasta is 60g dry weight, it would have about 40g of carbohydrate.
T2s on this forum eat varying amounts of carbs . For comparison, previous poster on this thread Borofergie eats fewer than 40g carbs in a day whereas Grazer eats up to 180g
60g uncooked isn't that much, it wouldn't be what most people consider a bowl of pasta.
Some people who use the GI diet use a quarter of their plate for starchy carbs.

We are all individual in our responses to various carbs. You need to weigh and test various amounts to see what they do to your blood glucose levels.

edit typos

 

[xyzzy]

We are all individual in our responses to various carbs. You need to weigh and test various amounts to see what they do to your blood glucose levels.

Again I agree everyone is different. The way I got back to having normal levels (took me around 8 weeks) was to do what Grazer suggested. I started at around 120g / day and then using my blood glucose meter adjusted what I ate each day until my levels normalised. I also used my meter to determine what foods were safe for me rather than blindly dogmatically following anyone's "diet" regime be it low carb or low GI or whatever as that's a very slippery slope in my opinion. The important thing is to get you blood sugar levels back to normal, once you've done that you can begin to worry about the mix of carbs / fat / protein, low GI high GI. I found it useful not to confuse the normal meaning of the word diet with getting control of your levels, they are two different things. When I started I found I could eat no more than 25g uncooked weight or either plain white rice or pasta without my levels going dangerously high. I also found if I swapped to brown rice and the brown or tri color pasta I could eat a bit more.

Good luck and keep asking questions.

 

[borofergie]

I also used my meter to determine what foods were safe for me rather than blindly dogmatically following anyone's "diet" regime be it low carb or low GI or whatever as that's a very slippery slope in my opinion.

There's none so blind as those that will not see. Woof.

 

[MaryJ]

60g uncooked isn't that much, it wouldn't be what most people consider a bowl of pasta

60g uncooked is the recoomended serving portion per person on a packet of pasta.

I remember thinking 'is that it'! when I started to cut down and used this amount as my first stab.

My tollerance is 30g :cry: pathetic amount but for me, worth it

Mary x