Plums ?

[Hopeful34]

I think you'll have to test bg spike with 3, 4 and 5 @Antje77 so it's a fair experiment, depending on people's appetite!! More plum buying!!

 

[ajbod]

Surely if the 4 are 200g, the obvious is to test 2, thereby getting a figure per 100g. Then depending on results you will know how many you can handle.

 

[Antje77]

Surely if the 4 are 200g, the obvious is to test 2, thereby getting a figure per 100g. Then depending on results you will know how many you can handle.

Ah, but it's not an experiment to see how many I can handle. If I wanted to try that I'd take insulin for them and see what would happen.
It's about the part in the opening post saying: "Plums do not cause a big spike in blood sugar."
@Pura Vida said in a later post that they only eat berries, so I thought it was time for someone to do some testing to see if anything can be learned about the original statement.

 

[LivingLightly]

Ah, but it's not an experiment to see how many I can handle. If I wanted to try that I'd take insulin for them and see what would happen.
It's about the part in the opening post saying: "Plums do not cause a big spike in blood sugar."
@Pura Vida said in a later post that they only eat berries, so I thought it was time for someone to do some testing to see if anything can be learned about the original statement.

I'd kick off with two plums, but it is your decision, Anje.

It's very noble of you, it must be said, to undertake this experiment on our behalf!

 

[ajbod]

As a type 2 diet controlled, it would be very beneficial to all type 2s, and i can only commend you for the personal sacrifice you are going to put yourself through.

 

[Antje77]

It's very noble of you, it must be said, to undertake this experiment on our behalf!

As a type 2 diet controlled, it would be very beneficial to all type 2s, and i can only commend you for the personal sacrifice you are going to put yourself through.

Well, seeing as I can't make myself useful for all of you as a moderator anymore now my stint as a mod is over, I just had to find another way to be of use. And what better way than eating plums!

I did some research on a large non diabetes related facebook group on the average amount of plums people tend to eat in one go so the experiment could be realistic.
Discarding the people who only eat one because more gives them the runs, non diabetics seem to eat between 2 and 8 plums per sitting.

So I think I'll go with 4. Does this seem reasonable for scientific purposes?

 

[Oldvatr]

All the fruits - yes a big loss becoming a low-carber post diagnosis. It took me a while to let go of them. And I haven't entirely as I portion control one per season/year off of my own trees, including a plum. Or two.

But saying that, the idea that high-carbohyrdrate food of any kind can help lower your blood glucoe - what a hoot! What they should say is, some foods and some fruit, in this case plums, can take a while to digest and depending on how good (or how bad of course) your blood glucose regulation system is is what kind of spike or nae, one can get from it. But too detailed for mass education? But true, no? And there is that double whammy of effect that fruit has - with fructose and sucrose, so depends on how your liver is doing with shunting out lots of glucose or nae.

Gee, it sounds kinda complex doesn't it? Hmmmm - yes indeedy. So we get back to individual responses with eating and metering to check out one's individual blood glucose/insulin response....as said above and too right.

But interesting that plums have a relatively low carb level (the 10g per 100g) - we should see more diabetic-friendly (called 'keto' nowadays, no?) plum jams? Hmmmm - I would love that. Plum chutneys? Oh goodness. Sounds wonderful. But I think I may have to make them myself, groan, and fight with the birds when it comes to getting those plums before they do...

Dynamite the tree, then the plums come to you, and the birds get scared away.

 

[Oldvatr]

The OP reads like a typical Year 1 postgrad starting a Masters Degree. It is a list of statements of fact, without the experimental data to back them up. so it is actually conjecture and possible groundwork for a project or a thesis. It is the sort of thing postgrads do while trying to get funding to support their Masters Degree. I suspect it is a paper seeking funding at this stage. The proof is in the pudding.

I am minded of a childhood rhyme
Simple Simon met a Pieman going to the fair..

..---->
So he put in his thumb and pulled out a plum, and said what a good boy am I

This is an early example of carb restriicted diet, and a forerunner of LCHF?

 

[MommaE]

I'll have the raspberries and blackberries that the birds don't get to. Plums are just way too sweet - I'm wouldn't even bother to test. The apples will see a lot of birds and our resident hedgehogs through the winter.

Might be ideal for a “ free pick”. Here, if you have fruit trees or bushes you can sign them up for a volunteer to pick. The owner retains 1/3 of what’s picked, the volunteer receives 1/3 and a food bank the remaining 1/3. Although one of the reasons is to prevent bears coming down and helping themselves which might not be a problem for you

 

[Antje77]

The OP reads like a typical Year 1 postgrad starting a Masters Degree. It is a list of statements of fact, without the experimental data to back them up. so it is actually conjecture and possible groundwork for a project or a thesis. It is the sort of thing postgrads do while trying to get funding to support their Masters Degree. I suspect it is a paper seeking funding at this stage. The proof is in the pudding.

Experimental data in the form of 'pudding' will be provided tomorrow, even if N is only 1.

 

[Robbity]

I succumbed and ordered some plums - a small pack of six from the supermarket. I ate two, chopped with a bit of stevia thrown in, and not much else for a rather mini lunch - result: glucose levels increased from pre meal 6 to post meal 6.4... I think plums might actually like me!

 

[Antje77]

I succumbed and ordered some plums - a small pack of six from the supermarket. I ate two, chopped with a bit of stevia thrown in, and not much else for a rather mini lunch - result: glucose levels increased from pre meal 6 to post meal 6.4... I think plums might actually like me!

That's absolutely amazing, and not unlike my incomplete experiment with dried plums a couple years back.
I'm having my fingers crossed for a similar result for me!

 

[JoKalsbeek]

That's absolutely amazing, and not unlike my incomplete experiment with dried plums a couple years back.
I'm having my fingers crossed for a similar result for me!

I'm on the edge of my seat here. I used to love plums as a kid... Wouldn't mind if they were back on the menu! Good luck, Antje.

 

[Antje77]

I'm on the edge of my seat here. I used to love plums as a kid... Wouldn't mind if they were back on the menu! Good luck, Antje.

I'm sorry, plums are not back on the menu. (Unless you ever go on gliclazide again and need to treat a hypo.)
Will post full report in an hour or so, but preliminary results are pretty clear.

 

[lovinglife]

Thanks for taking one for the team @Antje77 - I can do 1 plum with a meal, wouldn’t try one on it’s own though

 

[JoKalsbeek]

I'm sorry, plums are not back on the menu. (Unless you ever go on gliclazide again and need to treat a hypo.)
Will post full report in an hour or so, but preliminary results are pretty clear.

I thought it was too much to hope for. Ah well, I do hope you enjoyed them!

 

[ajbod]

Thanks for taking the risk, luckily i don't like plums anyway.

 

[Oldvatr]

I see WebMD has also read the OP post. Either that or the same academic report it is based on. The wording is remarkably similar

Health Benefits of Plums

Find out what nutrients are in plums and prunes and learn how they can help everything from high blood pressure to heart disease.

www.webmd.com

What is a dried plum called? - a prune. My experience of prunes was a disaster and not for the squeamish. I do not eat plums though so cannot pass on my experience there.

But surely a prune has the same fibre content as the plum had when it was alive? apparently it is the sorbitol in the sugar that causes the gastric effect, although we are often assured that it is the fibre doing that? I remain skeptikal.

 

[Antje77]

I had 4 plums weighing 205 grams without the stones, starting at 3:08 with a BG of 6.1 and a steady line on my Libre showing a very slow rise.
I eliminated as many noise factors as I could: No IOB (except basal), no food since yesterday, very little activity. I did have coffee with a splash of milk as always.
This situation is a common one for me, and usually it makes for predictable and stable BG, so any changes would be mostly caused by the plums.

I tested before starting and then every 30 minutes after first bite.
Broke the experiment off with insulin at an hour and 20 minutes in when I had risen to 11.8 and started to get a dry mouth. The test at an hour and a half is not likely to have been affected by the insulin yet, at the two hour test is seems to start doing something, insulin works pretty slow for me.

baseline:

30 minutes:

1 hour:

90 minutes:

2 hours:

And the full picture over the last 12 hours:

My conclusion: Plums are delicious but don't believe it if someone claims they don't spike BG!

 

[Oldvatr]

I have found a study tht claims that plums are a cure for hypeglycemia. It was a study using wistar Rats, which are specially bred rodents that are chemically blasted so that they have similar symptoms to T2D.

First point to note is that the scientists used plum and prune juice, so not the actual fruit itself. so the blurb about fibre is less likely to be relevant. This means that the GI effect from juice is not the same as the unpulped fruit.

Secondly rodent studies do not take into account that rodents have not one pancreas, but have two organs that produce insulin. The wistar rats are known to knock out one of these sources, but not both, so the model is not compatible to the human condition known as T2d. Wistar rats are also only models for insulin resistance if they are allowed to get fat by severe over feeding prior to the testing, and the study does not say much about their obesity status.

Plums do not contain complex carbs, and the sugar content is mainly glucose and fructose and other simple sugars. the spike from the juice will be very short lived. but the spike from fruit may last longer. Typically a non diabetic human will clear the spike within 10 to 20 minutes, but the study uses an OGTT technique, so will probably not test that early after the feeding..