Poor Doctors

[Sid Bonkers]

Yesterday many medical operations and procedures were cancelled as doctors went on strike over their future pension deals, it appears that your average doctor earning just £125,000 per year will at present get a lump sum of £140,000 and a pension of £48,000 per year on retirement, but after 2015 new doctors will not get any lump sum at all and will have to make ends meet on a paltry pension of £68,000 per year in stead.

You have to wonder how our doctors manage after they retire dont you, poor dears :thumbdown:

Future action is not ruled out either so try not to get ill wont you everyone.

 

[dawnmc]

Of course this has nothing to do with the fact that the doctors refused to play with the tories NHS reform plans. So they decided to change their pensions.

 

[BioHaZarD]

Not that I want to disagree with people and I know that not all doctors are great, but the majority of them had trained for 9-10 years to get where they are and they worked very very hard to be a doctor, this is 1 profession where I think they deserve what they should get. Nearly most of us rely and put a lot of trust in our doctors and in return they have a lot of responsibility to care and treat for us. I bet in most cases if a patient of some doctors die in their care and did all they could to prevent or increase lifespan they take it to heart and it affects them, how could it not?

Just my view....

 

[Sid Bonkers]

I agree with everything youve just posted Bio, but striking because you will only get a pension of £68,000 is a bit strong IMHO when everyone in the private sector has had to take a huge cut in their pensions. Why should those who are paid by the public purse be any different?

 

[BioHaZarD]

I agree too, but only a small percentage actually striked, most doctors did not, that percentage is the "not so great Doctors I mentioned" but would you not be miffed on years and years of paying your contribution suddenly it was worthless? You would have been better of putting it under the mattress. If the pension fund was not raped by labour and money was not saved for a rainy day then this would not have been an issue. And yes everyone should be taking a small hit (even though that's not right) there are plenty of other ways the government could save millions if not billions, but they don't seem to care about those ways for some reason.

 

[SouthernGeneral6512]

A good doctor is worth their weight in gold :thumbup:

 

[Sid Bonkers]

only a small percentage actually striked, most doctors did not

Perhaps not in your area but my wife works in a hospital and I can assure you that very few doctors worked there yesterday, many clinics were cancelled even one for urgent cardiac patients. I had a DN appointment yesterday and the surgery car park was empty, a car park for doctors only I would add, so I doubt that my GP's surgery was fully staffed unless they all worked to work :wink:

but would you not be miffed on years and years of paying your contribution suddenly it was worthless?

I think you and I will have to differ on the definitions of "worthless" and "paying contributions" as I believe £64,000 a year to be far from worthless and as for having paid into it for years, thats the problem they haven't, we have, it is only now that they are being asked to make 'fair' contributions just as the private sector do.

I would add that I have defended doctors here on this forum many times and few people here appear as grateful for their help as I have been but come on £68,000 a year, thats over twice the average wage And that is a conservative 'average' figure, many GP's and consultants will earn a lot more than the £120,000 p a these figures are based on.

 

[BioHaZarD]

We may have to agree to disagree then

we had a midwife appointment yesterday and all the doctors were in and all staff, only 2 of the doctors were striking and the others saw some patients, though most were cancelled from management and not the actual doctors, anyone who had a serious appointment were seen. My wifes best friend is a secretary there and said that the doctors spent they day working hard on all the other things they usually have to let slip because of patients appointments.

Having paid themselves into the the pot for years and having additional payments form the taxpayer for many years is fine with me for doctors, they have worked hard and missed out a lot in social life for training and hours worked, this reflected in them cutting some hours put in 2008 or 2004 I can't remember when that was. My surgery still does late night openings each week. if the doctors did not think they would be getting the payments when they retire, I bet all of them would be putting more money aside privately, but they are not because this is the contract they signed up for.

On other aspects of private jobs it is a different thing, bankers for instance we all think that is wrong, they do not appear to be worth earning there massive bonuses and pensions and payoffs. They are heading multinational million pouns companies all private, so why should they not get the money is also argued. This excludes the banks that currently have public funds propping them up, until ths money is repaid they should not get bonuses.

 

[minitata]

I find it strange that we want to cut GOOD pensions as being too much money instead of trying to raise BAD pensions to the same rate.

The doctors and government signed an agreement on pensions 4 years ago. Now the government are reneging on the deal. If the doctors say okay and give in, how long will it be before the government want to move the goal-posts again?

I personally, don't like the idea of doctors working longer. A surgeon is bound to be less steady over 60 than before. Would you like a 67 or 70 year old performing operations?

I don't begrudge highly trained individuals, who are expected to maintain their training from having a good wage - and one man's good wage is another man's riches. I think doctors deserve more money than - bankers say. As for 'us' paying for the doctors' pension - the more you earn the more tax you pay. If, as I used to do, paid £300 per month tax on your £6750 wage you're not paying a lot towards anyone's pension - including your own. 5% of a pittance is - a pittance :lol: . My brother who worked on computer programming at HSBC retired at 50 on over £1100 net pension paid more into the public workers pensions than I did - and got more out of it personally too.

 

[smidge]

Hey there!

Well, I don't defend doctors very often, but there's always an exception! People accept a job (any job) based on a set of terms and conditions - a contract that applies to both sides. To unilaterally change the T&Cs without agreement is simply wrong. It doesn't matter how much money is involved. It is simply wrong. As far as i'm concerned, the employer is in breach of contract and the strike action is justified. Doctors (and everyone else in this position) agree to take a certain set of duties/responsibilities for a certain remuneration package of which pension is a significant part. If the remuneration package is forcibly changed, they are entitled to withdraw their side of the contract - hence the strike. It doesn't matter whether we think they're worth the money, whether we are jealous of their income, pension etc or anything else - a contract is a contract and they have a right to expect it to be honoured. The politics of envy is a common tactic of governments when attacking employees terms and conditions. This is backed up by a very nasty and biased press in this country.

Smidge

 

[noblehead]

They are certainly well paid but I could never do the job they do, apparently yesterday those who turned up for work but didn't treat patients were still paid £480 according to Radio 2 (average daily wage) so their industrial action didn't hit them hard in the pocket unlike most public sector workers, £100-125,000 a year a year salary is excellent money and the pension benefits are more than generous IMHO.

 

[BioHaZarD]

They are certainly well paid but I could never do the job they do, apparently yesterday those who turned up for work but didn't treat patients were still paid £480 according to Radio 2 (average daily wage) so their industrial action didn't hit them hard in the pocket unlike most public sector workers, £100-125,000 a year a year salary is excellent money and the pension benefits are more than generous IMHO.

As I mention previously the doctors that were striking still went to work and saw important patients, in the time they were not they were still working in all the other aspects of the job they were doing, it is only the patient aspect that was lacking. They have a lot of other jobs to do that do not involve direct patient involvement, they were still doing this.

 

[noblehead]

As I mention previously the doctors that were striking still went to work and saw important patients, in the time they were not they were still working in all the other aspects of the job they were doing, it is only the patient aspect that was lacking. They have a lot of other jobs to do that do not involve direct patient involvement, they were still doing this.

That's correct Bio they were saying as such on the Radio, I'd imagine a good proportion of a GP's working day will be taken up with paperwork and reviewing medical reports etc.

 

[BioHaZarD]

As I mention previously the doctors that were striking still went to work and saw important patients, in the time they were not they were still working in all the other aspects of the job they were doing, it is only the patient aspect that was lacking. They have a lot of other jobs to do that do not involve direct patient involvement, they were still doing this.

That's correct Bio they were saying as such on the Radio, I'd imagine a good proportion of a GP's working day will be taken up with paperwork and reviewing medical reports etc.

I would suspect in a wierd way, they probably caught up a lot and may even have spent more time than usual going through records and updating themselves.

 

[Robinredbreast]

I agree too, but only a small percentage actually striked, most doctors did not, that percentage is the "not so great Doctors I mentioned" but would you not be miffed on years and years of paying your contribution suddenly it was worthless? You would have been better of putting it under the mattress. If the pension fund was not raped by labour and money was not saved for a rainy day then this would not have been an issue. And yes everyone should be taking a small hit (even though that's not right) there are plenty of other ways the government could save millions if not billions, but they don't seem to care about those ways for some reason.

My gp's surgery did not go on strike yesterday, great I thought, but I couldn't get an appointment with my dr because he will not be in for the rest of the week so hopefully I will be able to make an appointment for Monday, as I do need to see him.

 

[viviennem]

Our practice has 3 doctors to cover 2 surgeries and widely scattered rural home visits - I think I read somewhere that the area is 3500 square kilometers, and you can't cover it as the crow flies.

One GP is on holiday, another was at a parent's funeral - but the PCT wouldn't supply a locum because of the strike, which left one GP covering the whole lot! Okay, he was only covering urgent and emergency cases . . . I'd like to know how many hours he worked yesterday! I shall undoubtedly find out. Both our nurses were working, as were surgery staff - all their pensions have been tinkered with too!

I don't begrudge doctors a penny they're paid in wages - it's not only a wearying physical job, it has an emotional cost as well. I get a bit miffed about the fancy cars and the second homes etc - but they will pay tax on that pension, just as I do on my paltry state+private - under 10k a year and I'm still taxed on it :shock: After all, they're contributing to my housing benefit.

Viv 8)

 

[BioHaZarD]

Our practice has 3 doctors to cover 2 surgeries and widely scattered rural home visits - I think I read somewhere that the area is 3500 square kilometers, and you can't cover it as the crow flies.

One GP is on holiday, another was at a parent's funeral - but the PCT wouldn't supply a locum because of the strike, which left one GP covering the whole lot! Okay, he was only covering urgent and emergency cases . . . I'd like to know how many hours he worked yesterday! I shall undoubtedly find out. Both our nurses were working, as were surgery staff - all their pensions have been tinkered with too!

I don't begrudge doctors a penny they're paid in wages - it's not only a wearying physical job, it has an emotional cost as well. I get a bit miffed about the fancy cars and the second homes etc - but they will pay tax on that pension, just as I do on my paltry state+private - under 10k a year and I'm still taxed on it :shock: After all, they're contributing to my housing benefit.

Viv 8)

+1

 

[Riri]

Agree with Smidge and Minitata. No one should have the right to tear up an individuals contract of employment (public / private sector whatever) - what's the point of employees having a contract at all if this is allowed to happen.

 

[Paul1976]

And a junior doctor aged 23,working 45 years to the age of 68 and then recieving a pension of £68,000 P.A,well you have to take into account inflation and we're judging £68,000 in todays values and I imagine in the year 2057,£68,000 won't buy you as much as it would do today.