Porcine / Animal Insulin in Pumps

[tigger]

@artemis - message me an email address and I'll forward it to you. I can't seem to work out how to message you on this.

 

[-Artemis-]

Ah brill, will do now - thank you @tigger!!

 

[azure]

I find that odd that animal insulin isn't licensed for pump use. Pumps were in use long before synthetic insulin's were manufactured.
The only insulin that is not supposed to be used in pumps is actrapide sp* and it says so on the tin.

Call me a cynic, but I've always assumed it's because there's more money in the analogues. Or maybe because some companies do deals with insulin manufacturers. I won't name any names, but I always find it strange that some pumps seem to be tilted towards the use of certain insulins.

My dear old pump will take a 3ml pen cartridge so I can use any insulin. I have no idea why all pumps don't allow that. For a start, it's hugely quicker to change the cartridge.

 

[CarbsRok]

Call me a cynic, but I've always assumed it's because there's more money in the analogues. Or maybe because some companies do deals with insulin manufacturers

A lot of the problem is that most of the consultants now days have been force fed that analogues are the best thing since sliced bread so haven't learnt and do not want to know about animal insulin. Analogues are more expensive than animal insulin or always used to be so it isn't doing the nhs any favours.

 

[noblehead]

A lot of the problem is that most of the consultants now days have been force fed that analogues are the best thing since sliced bread so haven't learnt and do not want to know about animal insulin. Analogues are more expensive than animal insulin or always used to be so it isn't doing the nhs any favours.

I'd imagine now many years after analogues were first introduced it would be the other way round, it would be interesting to know how they compare price-wise.

 

[-Artemis-]

Well... I'm all connected -- but on Novo for now... I did ask about whether I could start on Porcine -- but she said it really wasn't advisable due to crystallization (I do know this isn't what people actually experience) and that it would reduce the pumps flexibility and adaptability... I really wasn't going to push things as she is a) really lovely and b) was about to start me up; I wanted no reasons to stop that happening!

-- I did consider coming home and putting porcine in, but as it would be total guess work on my part as to what to program it to deliver, I'm simply not brave / comfortable enough to risk that until I know what I'm doing... Starting on Novo means lots of support from my DSN (she'll call me everyday this week, look at my data via care link, tweak basals with me etc over the next few weeks... All of which I just wouldn't have the confidence to wing on my own with porcine)

So, I'm on novo for now -- and when I'm all set up and know my rates etc etc then I reassess... In other news; I'm LOVING Smartguard....!!

 

[azure]

Glad you're all set up, Artemis

When I got my last pump (an Insight which I gave back because I didn't like it at all), the rep assumed I'd be swapping to Novorapid even though the DSN knew I was on porcine. I made it clear I didn't want to go onto Novorapid and the rep was very good about it. I'd already done the research about animal insulins in pumps when I had to convince my consultant it was a good idea, so I just quoted that at the rep!

There is no evidence of porcine crystallising in pumps. Modern animal insulins are highly purified. I've never had any kind of issue like that with my porcine, and I've been using it in my pump almost two years. I'm sure you know that anyway, but I just thought I'd say it again for any other readers.

When I swapped to porcine from Humalog, I kept all my basal rates the same but just shifted them back an hour (because the porcine takes longer to have an effect). It was surprisingly easy. I was anxious that my BS would go haywire, but it stayed in range.

I know you don't plan to swap at this moment, but just to reassure you again that porcine is fine in a pump and no more difficult than an analogue.

Enjoy your pump!

 

[CarbsRok]

Well... I'm all connected -- but on Novo for now... I did ask about whether I could start on Porcine -- but she said it really wasn't advisable due to crystallization (I do know this isn't what people actually experience) and that it would reduce the pumps flexibility and adaptability... I really wasn't going to push things as she is a) really lovely and b) was about to start me up; I wanted no reasons to stop that happening!

Your dsn is quoting 45 year old research. Both pork and beef insulin now have a phosphate buffer in them so wont crystallize. I used the stuff for 50 years and 8 of them in a pump with no problem. Only one blockage in all the time I have pumped and that was due to a bent cannula.

 

[-Artemis-]

Your dsn is quoting 45 year old research. Both pork and beef insulin now have a phosphate buffer in them so wont crystallize. I used the stuff for 50 years and 8 of them in a pump with no problem. Only one blockage in all the time I have pumped and that was due to a bent cannula.

I know

 

[-Artemis-]

Glad you're all set up, Artemis

When I got my last pump (an Insight which I gave back because I didn't like it at all), the rep assumed I'd be swapping to Novorapid even though the DSN knew I was on porcine. I made it clear I didn't want to go onto Novorapid and the rep was very good about it. I'd already done the research about animal insulins in pumps when I had to convince my consultant it was a good idea, so I just quoted that at the rep!

There is no evidence of porcine crystallising in pumps. Modern animal insulins are highly purified. I've never had any kind of issue like that with my porcine, and I've been using it in my pump almost two years. I'm sure you know that anyway, but I just thought I'd say it again for any other readers.

When I swapped to porcine from Humalog, I kept all my basal rates the same but just shifted them back an hour (because the porcine takes longer to have an effect). It was surprisingly easy. I was anxious that my BS would go haywire, but it stayed in range.

I know you don't plan to swap at this moment, but just to reassure you again that porcine is fine in a pump and no more difficult than an analogue.

Enjoy your pump!

Thank you...! Wee bit stressed at the moment but when things are settled I'll definitely reinvestigate....x

 

[noblehead]

Pleased you got started on insulin @-Artemis-

 

[tigger]

@noblehead http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/cost-of-drugs-insulin.20655/#post-187340

from 2011 so may be outdated but gives a reasonable indication

Hypurin® Bovine Neutral
Injection, soluble insulin (bovine, highly purified) 100 units/mL. Net price 10-mL vial = £18.48; cartridges (for Autopen® Classic) 5 × 3 mL = £27.72

Hypurin® Porcine Neutral
Injection, soluble insulin (porcine, highly purified) 100 units/mL. Net price 10-mL vial = £16.80; cartridges (for Autopen® Classic) 5 × 3 mL = £25.20

Actrapid®
Injection, soluble insulin (human, pyr) 100 units/mL. Net price 10-mL vial = £7.48

Humulin S®
Injection, soluble insulin (human, prb) 100 units/mL. Net price 10-mL vial = £15.68; 5 × 3-mL cartridge (for most Autopen® Classic or HumaPen®) = £19.08

Insuman® Rapid
Injection, soluble insulin (human, crb) 100 units/mL, net price 5 × 3-mL cartridge (for ClikSTAR® and OptiPen® Pro 1) = £17.50; 5 × 3-mL Insuman® Rapid OptiSet® prefilled disposable injection devices (range 2–40 units, allowing 2-unit dosage adjustment) = £17.50


Levemir®
Injection, insulin detemir (recombinant human insulin analogue) 100 units/mL, net price 5 × 3-mL cartridge (for NovoPen® devices) = £42.00; 5 × 3-mL FlexPen® prefilled disposable injection device (range 1–60 units, allowing 1-unit dosage adjustment) = £42.00; 5 × 3-mL Levemir InnoLet® prefilled disposable injection devices (range 1–50 units, allowing 1-unit dosage adjustment) = £44.85

Lantus®
Injection, insulin glargine (recombinant human insulin analogue) 100 units/mL, net price 10-mL vial = £26.00; 5 × 3-mL cartridge (for ClikSTAR®, OptiPen® Pro 1, and Autopen® 24) = £39.00; 5 × 3-mL OptiClik® cartridge (for OptiClik® Pen) = £40.36; 5 × 3-mL Lantus® OptiSet® prefilled disposable injection devices (range 2–40 units, allowing 2-unit dosage adjustment) = £39.00; 5 × 3-mL Lantus® SoloStar® prefilled disposable injection devices (range 1–80 units, allowing 1-unit dosage adjustment) = £40.36

 

[yingtong]

Good luck on insulin Artemis,I'm still fine tuning after 5 weeks but certainly less problems with 'Hypo's'.The CGM is so much help and without it I think I might still struggling a little.

 

[-Artemis-]

Thank you! I have to say without the CGM and Smartguard I'd be in a right pickle... It's suspended my basal many times already! Very very grateful to have it...

 

[himtoo]

pleased you're started

 

[Flowerpot]

How are you getting on @-Artemis- with the 640g and Smartguard? I hope things are going well for you

I have found the Smartguard brilliant and already have seen a big reduction in the amount of time I was spending in the low 3's.

 

[masonbason63]

Glad you're all set up, Artemis

When I got my last pump (an Insight which I gave back because I didn't like it at all), the rep assumed I'd be swapping to Novorapid even though the DSN knew I was on porcine. I made it clear I didn't want to go onto Novorapid and the rep was very good about it. I'd already done the research about animal insulins in pumps when I had to convince my consultant it was a good idea, so I just quoted that at the rep!

There is no evidence of porcine crystallising in pumps. Modern animal insulins are highly purified. I've never had any kind of issue like that with my porcine, and I've been using it in my pump almost two years. I'm sure you know that anyway, but I just thought I'd say it again for any other readers.

When I swapped to porcine from Humalog, I kept all my basal rates the same but just shifted them back an hour (because the porcine takes longer to have an effect). It was surprisingly easy. I was anxious that my BS would go haywire, but it stayed in range.

I know you don't plan to swap at this moment, but just to reassure you again that porcine is fine in a pump and no more difficult than an analogue.

Enjoy your pump!

Hi,
I also changed from humalog to novarapid on my latest pump as its the Insight it only takes the smaller nova cartridges, I can't use the self fill as I can't see well enough too fill the 3ml ones,

Didn't have a problem changing insulins I'm just grateful for that. I'm just going through my fasting basals over the next few days,
So far may Nightine and morning levels have been absolutely spot on.

So obviously to stay in brilliant control of my diabetes is
DONT EAT anything. Great!!!

 

[azure]

Basal rate tests are such fun - not!

I'm pleased the pump is working out for you

 

[-Artemis-]

How are you getting on @-Artemis- with the 640g and Smartguard? I hope things are going well for you

I have found the Smartguard brilliant and already have seen a big reduction in the amount of time I was spending in the low 3's.

Hi @Flowerpot -- I am completely in love with the 640g and Smartguard! I had read lots about Enlites not tracking well so was really nervous -- but the tracking has been brilliant! Absolute worst difference I've seen is 1mml -- and that's only been once or twice and I used to get that with my meter anyway! So I am in love with all that... I'm also absolutely exhausted because my basals aren't right esp at night. I totally expected this from reading all on here -- but I'm sooooo tired....!! I know this will change though and I've a clear weekend so am planning to just chill....

Do you feel fully set up on your pump now? Will you permanently have the CGM part? It's soooooo reassuring to wear isn't it

 

[Flowerpot]

Very glad to hear you are in love with your pump and Smartguard @-Artemis- It is a great piece of kit.

I haven't had any issues with the accuracy of the Enlite sensors and have used them full time for 41/2 years now as I have no hypo awareness. The Enlite sensors do seem to get a bad press sometimes but I have found them pretty spot on even more so with the new Guardian transmitter. I'm currently on day 9 1/2 after restarting my old sensor and the last calibration was exactly the same as my bg. I've used a pump since 1999 so although changing model always takes a bit of getting used to I'm set up and hopefully stable - for now at least!

I hope you can chill a bit this weekend, it is tiring and stressful getting to grips with something so different to MDI, I hope your basal rates start to fall into place soon, I wish you continued good luck