Prof Roy Taylor's work on reversing type 2 diabetes

[JohnEGreen]

Low carb diets or the ND take a lot more staff time for most clients

They do? please elucidate

 

[ringi]

How long does it take to print out a prescription......

 

[DavidGrahamJones]

If GP's get financial incentives to a) diagnose and b) prescribe drugs its no wonder that people on here are finding that the diabetes nurses and their doctors are not interested in either low carb diets or the ND.

I can see that the background to the research mentions financial incentives for prescribing as well as diagnosing but I followed the link (13) and struggling to find where it says there's an incentive for prescribing anything. What it does say is "The objective of the QOF is to improve the quality of care patients are given by rewarding practices for the quality of care they provide to their patients". It's a big document, I might have missed the important bit. My brother (overweight) and a cousin (slim) have both recently been diagnosed pre-diabetic and given advice to follow a sensible diet with less carbs, so no prescription yet.

I remember asking my GP 20 years ago why I didn't have to watch my carb intake and he said that it was too difficult for most people to stick to a low carb diet. If you look at the number of forum members who stick to low carb diets and compare that to the number of type II diabetics in the UK, he could still be right, it's easier to manage by dishing out pills, it almost guarantees successful outcomes.

In conversations with my present GP about the Newcastle Diet she actually said that she wouldn't feel comfortable suggesting it to most of her patients but felt happy if I was going to try it. She had one other patient, another man, who had been successful with his attempts. I had partial success but I was only trying to straighten my BG out, not necessarily looking for a cure although I will be giving it another go.

 

[Tannith]

I still question whether just a low-carb diet would achieve similar results to the ND diet. I would like to see more reported data comparing the ND calorie restricted diet with an LC diet with the same level of carbs.

As I understand it the 2 diets (Low carb or low calorie) have two completely different objectives. The Newcastle diet is intended to "cure" diabetes for good whereas the low carb diet is intended to "treat" the diabetes in the short term (or indeed as long as you continue it). Low carb would be a substitute for metformin etc in keeping complications at bay by keeping sugars down. Excellent for those who have horrid side effects from metformin. However ND would put the diabetes into remission in that as long as you did not put the lost weight back on you would be able to eat carbs like a normal person again.

 

[bulkbiker]

As I understand it the 2 diets (Low carb or low calorie) have two completely different objectives.

Not necessarily.. both often lead to weight loss. In my case more significant than Prof Taylor's 15% so they could both have that as an aim. Low Carbers may then eat that way because they find it more pleasant as well as because they get much healthier while doing it without the excessive hunger that will likely come from constant caloric restriction. As for whether ND puts Type 2 into remission the jury is out.. there have been a few members who make that claim but rarely (it seems) do they share their figures so we have only their claims to back that up.

 

[OrsonKartt]

Not necessarily.. both often lead to weight loss. In my case more significant than Prof Taylor's 15% so they could both have that as an aim. Low Carbers may then eat that way because they find it more pleasant as well as because they get much healthier while doing it without the excessive hunger that will likely come from constant caloric restriction. As for whether ND puts Type 2 into remission the jury is out.. there have been a few members who make that claim but rarely (it seems) do they share their figures so we have only their claims to back that up.

I did the Newcastle diet and then low carb. I still get hungry and when I do eat low carb high fat. All is well for a few weeks until I put on just a few kilos. Then I have to calerie restrict until my blood glucose get to normal levels. I was diagnosed a year ago. I've read everything I possibly can and continue to research. What I can say with certainty is that it's not as straight forward as anyone is suggesting. I monitor regularly then I know where I am rather than living via someone else's belief system.

 

[bulkbiker]

I did the Newcastle diet and then low carb. I still get hungry and when I do eat low carb high fat. All is well for a few weeks until I put on just a few kilos. Then I have to calerie restrict until my blood glucose get to normal levels. I was diagnosed a year ago. I've read everything I possibly can and continue to research. What I can say with certainty is that it's not as straight forward as anyone is suggesting. I monitor regularly then I know where I am rather than living via someone else's belief system.

So your blood sugars go up on a LCHF way of eating? Do you monitor your carb levels? I'm interested in how many grams of carbs you have per day.

 

[OrsonKartt]

I don't study my carb levels everyday but I do record every scrap of food that I eat along with blood sugar levels through out the day. On a quick back of an envelope estimation I would say 30 grams of carb per day.


I've only been doing this for a year so its still new to me i.e. I feel I have a lot to learn as things are not constant, well not in my life anyhow.

 

[bulkbiker]

I don't study my carb levels everyday but I do record every scrap of food that I eat along with blood sugar levels through out the day. On a quick back of an envelope estimation I would say 30 grams of carb per day.

Ok so pretty low.. and your bloods go up after a few weeks of eating like that if you gain?

 

[OrsonKartt]

......from memory 6/7 weeks of eating whatever I fancy in the LC way and I'll gain a few kilos. After Newcastle I dropped 15 KG. I 'm 6'3" and prior to diet weighed around 90 KG with a 38 inch waist. I'm now slightly less than 75 KG & 32 inch waist which seems to suit me and saves me having to buy any more clothes!

To drop a few KG I restrict calories for few days. My morning blood sugars are now in the low 5's . rather than 6's. I know 6 is mainly considered ok but sometimes I get 4's and I feel in control.... if you know what I mean.

This has happened to me twice in the past year and I've done the same thing. Its been a strange year with lots of other possible influences. , stress from death in the family, inguinal hernia op ( leading up to this my activity levels dropped),
serious close relative sickness which means I had to travel lots...etc....

... Anyhow I'm living and learning and feeling OK

 

[Chook]

You aren't the only one that gains weight on LCHF - it happens to me, too. I can be in ketosis (tested with Ketostix) yet put on pounds. It seems the only way I can lose weight is by restricting (and counting) calories. I'm currently on the ND with real food.

 

[OrsonKartt]

You aren't the only one that gains weight on LCHF - it happens to me, too. I can be in ketosis (tested with Ketostix) yet put on pounds. It seems the only way I can lose weight is by restricting (and counting) calories. I'm currently on the ND with real food.

Best thoughts for the NC diet...I found it tough ( but worthwhile in the end!)

 

[Chook]

Best thoughts for the NC diet...I found it tough ( but worthwhile in the end!)

Thank you The first two days were very tough but it seems to be getting better now. It helps that I've had some good results so far.

 

[serenity648]

I dont understand the idea that you can eat whatever amount you want on LCHF and still lose weight. As i see it, from what i have read so far, restricting calories (Newcastle diet) and making up those calories in a LCHF combination is the way to lose weight, or maintain weight.

 

[OrsonKartt]

I dont understand the idea that you can eat whatever amount you want on LCHF and still lose weight. As i see it, from what i have read so far, restricting calories (Newcastle diet) and making up those calories in a LCHF combination is the way to lose weight, or maintain weight.

That's what seems to work for me.... or it has for almost exactly a year now. Thanks to all the advise I've received here and constant monitoring and noting ,

 

[Chook]

@serenity648

Well, I did wonder - but I thought I'd give it a go so grabbed at the idea that I could eat what I wanted as long as it was LCHF and gained 2st over 8 months which has been REALLY hard to shift. At the moment I'm attempting the ND with real food but keeping to under 50g of carbs - mainly as on low carb I very rarely feel hungry - although, as I said before, the first two days of ND were pretty horrendous.

 

[serenity648]

I also put on weight on the LCHF, so restricting my cals too seems essential for me as well. So far, I have lost 7 lbs again in 3 months of this combination.

 

[Brunneria]

I don't gain at all on LCHF - provided I keep my carbs very low (below about 25g carbs a day).

I suspect that those of us particularly prone to insulin resistance, will gain on LCHF if we exceed our personal carb tolerance.
My personal carb tolerance is very low. Other people with higher tolerances get to eat more carbs in their LCHF plan, and not gain.

 

[hankjam]

I dont understand the idea that you can eat whatever amount you want on LCHF and still lose weight. As i see it, from what i have read so far, restricting calories (Newcastle diet) and making up those calories in a LCHF combination is the way to lose weight, or maintain weight.

I count myself lucky. Went LCHF and over six months lost 25 kg and stayed at around 70 kg for the last 3 years. Ate as much as I could when losing weight. For a time I was worried I would not stop losing weight but it did flatten out..... now a little more circumspect.... though my evening meal tends to be the largest meal, which is not quite the right way round..

 

[badcat]

Ok so pretty low.. and your bloods go up after a few weeks of eating like that if you gain?

If i go under 20g my blood sugars start to go up after a couple of weeks without any weight gain and regardless if i continue or stop meds. I think its my livers way of saying "sod this for a game of soldiers" and then proceeding to go hell for leather converting anything it can into glucose. Under around 35g I dont get the same problems