Pushed too far?!

[Hobo1978]

So I was diagnosed a couple of years ago. Went on such a strict diet, got my fasting blood down to between 5-7 every morning and all was well. Moved last year after two years with parents and went absolutely off the rails. I ate and drank everything in sight and basically forgot about being type 2. Takeaways, the lot! Didn't test myself anymore, just took my 1 metformin a day and ate whatever. You name it, I ate it. Put on 2 stone. Testing my fasting blood 4 days ago and it was 12. I haven't had it down to lower than 8 during the day now for 3 days. I'm eating no carbs, so basically meat and salad, stir frys etc. My question is this: have I done irreparable damage to myself, or can I get this back under control? If I lose weight again, will the numbers come down? Has anyone been through a similar thing?! Thanks for your time!
Best regards
A naughty type 2

 

[Freema]

maybe........... only time will tell...

you could end up needing insuline if your pancreas has started only working half or even less..

keep on low carbing, but maybe not NO-carb as that could also be your liver being too active producing the blood glucose you obviously do not eat at the moment...

try like eating 20 carbs at each bigger meal 3 times a day and find out if that relaxes your liver or maybe only at the 2 last meals you eat daily... the last will reveal I think if your liver is reacting to your body suddenly deprived a lot of daily carbs..

 

[britishpub]

You did it once, so you can do it again.

The damage won't be irreparable, there are hundreds of people on this site who have made huge improvements from worse positions.

It is down to you to make the changes and attain your goals.

 

[Hobo1978]

Thanks. I'm not completely no carbing. I have Greek yoghurt for breakfast. Ham salad for lunch and chicken and veg or stir fry for dinner as an example. Stir fry sauces have about 10gms

 

[Hobo1978]

Thanks for your words of encouragement. I'm not living my life without the occasional curry or Chinese, but I know it has to be occasionally!

 

[Kristin251]

20 carbs per meal would be WAY too many for me, especially at breakfast!

Protein. Can also raise bs so we need to keep that moderate especially with low carbing.

Try eggs and sausage or a veggie omelet for bf. Or I just eat avocado with celery.
Lunch could be a salad topped with protein , avocado, and olive oil sea salt dressing. Squeeze of lemon and or some herbs

Dinner a modest amount of protein and some above ground veggies. Topped with some healthy fats.

IF you are going to go low carb you will have to add Salome fats. You don't need to gob them but you do need some

Avocado has a magical effect on my bs. I'm sure it's the fat and fiber that keep things low and slow and me full. I eat some in some form or another at all meals. Either sliced, chunked on salads , guacamole, smashed with sea salt, sliced and wrapped in deli meat etc. Some people make smoothies and I'm sure I'd love it but I just love it simple. It can also be made into a salad dressing by thinning it and blending it and adding some spicy pepper, cilantro and lemon/lime juice.

 

[Kristin251]

Thanks. I'm not completely no carbing. I have Greek yoghurt for breakfast. Ham salad for lunch and chicken and veg or stir fry for dinner as an example. Stir fry sauces have about 10gms

Skip the stir fry sauce ( liquid sugar) and just use oil, garlic, salt or whatever herbs or spices you like. The rest looks good. Are there lots of carbs in the yogurt? Carbs in the morning aren't always great. We are generally most insulin resistant then. I save mine for lunch and dinner.

 

[Hobo1978]

The yoghurt has 5g

 

[DavidGrahamJones]

My question is this: have I done irreparable damage to myself, or can I get this back under control? If I lose weight again, will the numbers come down? Has anyone been through a similar thing?

Not sure about irreparable, time will tell. I seem to have gone off the rails recently (maybe, there could actually be a physical reason for my appalling HbA1c last month). You know the pack drill, you have to do what you did before. Perhaps a c-pep test (GP or private) and an insulin resistance test (available private or a home kit available online) would at least let you know where you stand.

In my case my frequent BG tests would indicate something weird is going on (As high as 16 at 11:30 am after fasting since 20:30 previous night). I'm aware of liver dumps but after 15 hours? It's time for Freestyle Libre, just to get an idea of what's occurring and when.

 

[Hobo1978]

What are these tests David ? I haven't heard of them

 

[Hobo1978]

Do you think if I lose the couple of stone, things could right themselves? I've lost 5.2lb this week and already am feeling less bloated and horrific!

 

[Kristin251]

I do think weight loss will help. Not only because you're losing weight but in order to do that we generally have to cut some carbs and some food in general.

A c- peptide test shows how much insulin your body is producing on its own.

A GAD ( glutamic acid decarboxilase) shows if you have an autoimmune disease and if your body is attacking your pancreas. These tests generally tell you if you need to start taking insulin.

Just guessing of course but tightly controlling your diet and getting some form of exercise if you can, even a slow to moderate 15 min walk should help. After levels are high for awhile it takes a while to bring them down and keep them down. The body likes too have a 'set point'. Fasting is usually the last thing to come down.

How long have you been back to low carbing? Are you seeing small improvements most days ?

 

[AndBreathe]

Not sure about irreparable, time will tell. I seem to have gone off the rails recently (maybe, there could actually be a physical reason for my appalling HbA1c last month). You know the pack drill, you have to do what you did before. Perhaps a c-pep test (GP or private) and an insulin resistance test (available private or a home kit available online) would at least let you know where you stand.

In my case my frequent BG tests would indicate something weird is going on (As high as 16 at 11:30 am after fasting since 20:30 previous night). I'm aware of liver dumps but after 15 hours? It's time for Freestyle Libre, just to get an idea of what's occurring and when.

Am I interpreting that you suggest a home insulin resistance test is available? I'd be interested to explore that. I don't think I have much, if any IR now, but I'd still like to know.

 

[Hobo1978]

I do think weight loss will help. Not only because you're losing weight but in order to do that we generally have to cut some carbs and some food in general.

A c- peptide test shows how much insulin your body is producing on its own.

A GAD ( glutamic acid decarboxilase) shows if you have an autoimmune disease and if your body is attacking your pancreas. These tests generally tell you if you need to start taking insulin.

Just guessing of course but tightly controlling your diet and getting some form of exercise if you can, even a slow to moderate 15 min walk should help. After levels are high for awhile it takes a while to bring them down and keep them down. The body likes too have a 'set point'. Fasting is usually the last thing to come down.

How long have you been back to low carbing? Are you seeing small improvements most days ?

Thanks. Yeah I am. Just tested before dinner and I was 7.9. Lowest I've been for 4 days (that's 4 days I've been low carbing). I've been hovering around 8 most of the day, and 10 this morning. I'm not a massive exerciser but I do work in retail so don't sit down for 8 hours a day and am constantly walking up and down the shop.

 

[Hobo1978]

I've only ever had 1 3 monthly test and my numbers were 44? Which am I right in saying in pre?

 

[Kristin251]

Thanks. Yeah I am. Just tested before dinner and I was 7.9. Lowest I've been for 4 days (that's 4 days I've been low carbing). I've been hovering around 8 most of the day, and 10 this morning. I'm not a massive exerciser but I do work in retail so don't sit down for 8 hours a day and am constantly walking up and down the shop.

Me too. I don't exercise but am moving around all day. Exercise raises me now but would lower me when I was type 2.
Sounds like you just have a high set point right now with potential insulin resistance and hopefully it will sort itself out by itself.

Do you eat lots of ham or chicken? I find anything over 3 ounces gives me a pretty good spike. So here's my thoughts. If you're lowering carbs you should add some fat to make up the calories and healthy fat is healthy. In the ABSENSE of carbs, fat does not make you fat. I would also find. A substitute for the stir fry sauce. Maybe tamari? Or oil and just a small touch of the sauce for flavor? Are you sticking with all low carb above ground veggies? Certain veggies are higher in carbs like onion, broccoli spikes me, green beans , brussel sprouts , corn and peas etc. Even bell peppers. Lower carb veggies would be mushrooms, celery, scallions, bok choy, zucchini, asparagus. I do eat green beans, brussel sprouts and broccoli but in small quantities.
You might try sticking with the lower carb ones until it rights itself.

I always say if I eat one bad meal ( and I don't mean bad, I mean over eat or spike) it takes 3 days to come back to normal. So you still have time. As long as you're seeing improvements then I would keep low carbing, and moderate your protein until you see the results you like. It is probably premature to get the c-peptide or GAD unless you don't see improvement.

Just to mention, all grains and dairy make me insulin resistant but some people are fine with them. By losing weight and low carbing you will also most likely be gaining insulin sensitivity.

Happy you are seeing improvement!! These things take time and patience. Just look for lower trends

 

[Brunneria]

Welcome back!

Going back to your original question, and whether you could get back the control you previously had?

There seems to be a pattern, as shown by posters here on the forum (so it is a very unscientific and small sample!) whereby getting control the first time is comparatively easy. Could be enthusiasm. could be the recent diagnosis. could be New Diet Syndrome (where we stick to it rigidly and don't cut corners).

However, if those same people lapse, go off the rails, and then try to recover lost ground, it is often slower, harder, and more challenging. Again, could be any number of reasons; carb creep, reluctance to stick to hardcore dieting, body more resistant this time... anything really.

But generally people DO get back control, and they DO get the rewards of their efforts, is it just a somewhat harder and more insulin resistant journey the second (and subsequent) times around.

Let's face it, there are very few of us who don't lapse from time to time, and who don't experience Battle Fatigue in some way shape or form, so the cycle of control, lapse, control, is a familiar one to most of us, especially when we have been at this game for a while. Personally, once I realised that lapses made things harder afterwards, I took it as a splendid incentive to stick more consistently to the straight and narrow.

 

[Hobo1978]

I don't drink milk. Just soya milk. Not a lot of dairy but I love cheese! Thanks so much for taking the time to write all this. I hope you are right and it's just a blip. I'm sure a lot of us go crazy now and again. It's not a life without a curry or Chinese occasionally, right?! I'm a bit annoyed with myself as I was down to 14st 9lb at one point, and this morning I was 16st11, but I know I can get the weight down

 

[Hobo1978]

Welcome back!

Going back to your original question, and whether you could get back the control you previously had?

There seems to be a pattern, as shown by posters here on the forum (so it is a very unscientific and small sample!) whereby getting control the first time is comparatively easy. Could be enthusiasm. could be the recent diagnosis. could be New Diet Syndrome (where we stick to it rigidly and don't cut corners).

However, if those same people lapse, go off the rails, and then try to recover lost ground, it is often slower, harder, and more challenging. Again, could be any number of reasons; carb creep, reluctance to stick to hardcore dieting, body more resistant this time... anything really.

But generally people DO get back control, and they DO get the rewards of their efforts, is it just a somewhat harder and more insulin resistant journey the second (and subsequent) times around.

Let's face it, there are very few of us who don't lapse from time to time, and who don't experience Battle Fatigue in some way shape or form, so the cycle of control, lapse, control, is a familiar one to most of us, especially when we have been at this game for a while. Personally, once I realised that lapses made things harder afterwards, I took it as a splendid incentive to stick more consistently to the straight and narrow.

Thank you. But what do you call a lapse? A day off? One meal? A takeaway? When you have blood mostly under control, can you be occasionally naughty and not worry?!

 

[Brunneria]

I suppose I am talking about ppl who turn up on the forum, do amazingly well getting their bg down, their fasting bg down, losing weight... The works.

Then they typically hit a challenge, like xmas, or a holiday, and have a few days off. But the days stretch to weeks, and maybe months, and they stop testing, and the blood glucose creeps up - very similar to your situation, really.

And when they decide to get back on the wagon (diet, low carb, Newcastle Diet, whatever), they find that their bgs are a bit slower to respond, the second time around. And the weight is a bit slower to go... Their actions still work. The diets still work. But it is just a bit harder this time.

It isn't a diabetic phenomenon, really. I think it is a pretty universal diet phenomenon. And it is why people almost always do splendidly on their first ever diet and think they've 'cracked it' - only to find that they have actually taken the first step onto a lifetime of yo-yoing.

Please don't think I am saying this to depress you. I am NOT.
(And i am speaking as one who has learned this lesson the hard way).
I am saying this in the hope that you remember it next time you are tempted to fall off the wagon.

Think of it this way:
- dieting/controlling bg b diet is easy. Simple. A walk in the park. Just like strolling up a nice even path on a gentle hill.
- yet everytime you walk that path, it gets a wee bit steeper, and a wee bit more uneven underfoot.

By the time you've walked it half a dozen times, you need sherpas, cheerleaders and a hip replacement.