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Raise ketones through drugs or....

Discussion in 'Type 2 Diabetes' started by bulkbiker, Jan 9, 2021.

  1. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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  2. Tophat1900

    Tophat1900 Type 3c · Well-Known Member

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    Drugs over diet.... hmmm, tough call. Perhaps consult a pharmaceutical rep for nonbiased advice. :D
     
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  3. AlfonsoJones

    AlfonsoJones · Member

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    Ketones are more a side effect of SGLT2s than a benefit. Your kidneys can only naturally filter out a certain amount of extra glucose - the drug allows more excretion. Theyre also cardio and renal protective. SGLT2s cost around £50/month, they’re not considering making them first-line treatment in place of metformin for no reason.
     
  4. AlfonsoJones

    AlfonsoJones · Member

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    Look at the EMC/BNF/NICE advice - you’re not supposed to take the sglt2 if on a car free diet or you’re fasting DUE to the risk of ketones
     
  5. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    And a ketogenic diet is effectively free... plus brings multiple extra health benefits with zero side effects.
     
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  6. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    I think you are missing my point somewhat.. why take a medication to induce what some minor dietary changes can bring about naturally?
     
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  7. lucylocket61

    lucylocket61 Type 2 · Expert

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    Not everyone can have a keto diet, so it's good to have options for those who can't.
     
  8. AlfonsoJones

    AlfonsoJones · Member

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    Because the research studies show the benefit. Carb free often isn’t suitable for people, can make other bloods go off tilt. SGLT2 studies also are finding them to be cv and renal protective
     
  9. kokhongw

    kokhongw I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Basically, there's magic in p**ing carbs vs not eating them...
     
  10. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    Eating wholesome single ingredient low carb foods should be fine for all (its what the human race grew up on after all).
    What "other" bloods do you mean and how can we be so sure they are "off" rather than normalised?
     
  11. Fenn

    Fenn Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Please excuse my ignorance, keytones are good because they eat fat? Ive currently got a pharmacist at a hospital telling me I should go onto these sglt2 meds instead of novorapid because of my hypos, I always have keytones present regardless what I eat, so I assume this is a good thing?
     
  12. Mr_Pot

    Mr_Pot Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    The liver converts fatty acids into ketones which are then released into the bloodstream for use as energy.
    It is normal to have a low level of ketones as ketones will be produced whenever body fat is burned.
     
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  13. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    Not unless you are low carb enough to activate fat burning.. otherwise you'll be using glucose first.
    Maybe first thing in the morning after an overnight fast but I doubt many will produce ketones "normally".
     
  14. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    Ketones are an indicator that you have burned through stored/ingested glucose and are starting to use fat as fuel.
    If you are having hypos then you are taking in too much insulin.
    I know you have tried low carbing with success before so maybe giving your pancreas a rest with the insulin use has given your beta cells a boost.. maybe time to try ultra low carb again (with doc's knowledge of course).
     
  15. Mr_Pot

    Mr_Pot Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Below 0.6 mmol/L is the normal level of ketones, not zero.
     
  16. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    Do you have a source for that?
    Interested to know when they measure.. certainly not after a carb heavy breakfast I'll wager.
     
  17. Fenn

    Fenn Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Maybe so, cant hurt I guess, thanks
     
  18. Fenn

    Fenn Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    This would make perfect sense, thankyou
     
  19. Mr_Pot

    Mr_Pot Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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  20. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    I think that's through the lens of T1 and of course under 0.6 could quite comfortably be zero.

    For a regular "normal" glucose burner I doubt they'd see ketones registering at all on a blood ketone monitor. maybe I'll go and check hubs and see.
     
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