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Really High Cholosterol - 13 - Please Help

Discussion in 'Type 1 Diabetes' started by JoeT1, Apr 26, 2018.

  1. librarising

    librarising LADA · Well-Known Member

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    To summarise what people are saying in the links I provided :
    IF I'M GETTING IT RIGHT, FH is NOT a problem of HIGHER cholesterol/HIGHER LDL. It's a problem of LDL receptors, which don't allow LDL into the cells. This leaves normal LDL floating around in the blood in higher amounts.
    If the cholesterol hypothesis is rejected, then statins don't make sense. I'll leave Zoe Harcombe to conclude :

    "If raised LDL is a symptom and not the problem, any cholesterol lowering medication would only make things worse. If LDL not getting to cells is the real harm of FH, then any attempts to lower cholesterol will make things worse. We know from the brilliant book by the Yosephs that cells will try to produce cholesterol if they cannot get it from the blood stream. We also know that brain cells produce cholesterol because of the blood brain barrier (which is why statins can have particularly harmful effects to mind, memory and mood). If people with FH are already suffering from LDL not getting to cells, then impairing the cell’s ability to make cholesterol will make things even worse.

    People with FH should ideally be given medication (if anything existed) to stimulate cholesterol production within the cell, so that the cell would at least get the vital cholesterol it needs, even when it couldn’t get it from the blood stream."
    Geoff
     
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  2. JoeT1

    JoeT1 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Thanks guys. I'm not sure when my referral will be, would be nice to get an answer soon as this sort of thing scares me. I was only thinking to myself on Monday that I was feeling a lot better, fitter etc and looking forward, I am worried now that I am going back to square one with all this.

    Have people seen there levels up at 13 (10LDL) in the past but not been FH? I wonder could it be a case that I need some help bringing down my cholesterol with medication and continuing a good diet and exercise regime that I have been carrying out?

    Sorry for all the questions, it just gets to me.
     
  3. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    Quick question .. is this the first time your cholesterol has been measured?
     
  4. JoeT1

    JoeT1 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Pretty sure it was checked when I was diagnosed in October. However, the result, I know was big, I want to say up around 11 but will have to confirm on Tuesday. What are you thinking?

    I'm looking into substitutes for meat, such as using quorn more. Turkey rashers for my treat and so on.

    From my research, i'm now looking at saturated fat below 15-20g per day, total fat now below 35g per day. I'll add in some Flora drink etc to give anything a shot at bringing it down. I would like to give this a go for a number of months before the recommend statins.

    After Xmas, I was eating a lot of eggs, lot of red meat and meat in general, would this be causing the big spike I wonder, how long does the test measure.
     
  5. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    Have you read Dave Feldman's site yet? At the moment I wouldn't worry overly about your results.
    Cholesterol goes up and down like blood sugars it is not static. You are I believe fairly young and fairly new to a keto diet. It seems pretty unlikely that even if you have FH it would necessarily cause you any problems.I would carry on monitoring it for at least a couple of years before doing anything drastic. Mine has gone up by quite a bit (ok not as much as yours) but I don't worry about it as cholesterol and even its constituent parts are not really representative of anything heart disease included. If your docs are very worried ask them for an LDL particle size test to see if your so called "bad" cholesterol is small particle or large particle. If its large then you are fine if not then maybe consider medication. I would encourage you to read the new science of what is going on in th world of cholesterol and I guarantee you'l pretty soon know more than most doctors (sad but true).
     
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  6. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    I was thinking that if indeed you do have FH then you probably would have had high results before, If you didn't then it is more likely changing your eating but again this may not be something to worry about.
     
  7. sally and james

    sally and james Family member · Well-Known Member

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    Much has been written on the subject of cholesterol, but the advice I really like came from Zoe Harcombe a few years back, "don't have your cholesterol measured and you will have one less thing to worry about", or words to that effect. Sorry not to have time to search out a link, but it's there somewhere.
    We simply forbid medical staff to test our blood for cholesterol. Quite simple, no test, no result, no worry, no statins.
    Sally
     
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  8. JoeT1

    JoeT1 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    You guys are giving me so much to think about. I'm now wondering about the referral to the hospital with regards to FH. I guess it's no harm in going when I get an appointment, but like you said, cholesterol seems to go up and down. I seem to be controlling my diabetes very well in under 6 months, my HDL and Trigs are very good and i'm feeling decent along with a good diet and exercise regime.

    Maybe i'll be called completely mad, but if that continues and i'm not feeling in any way bad, should I really worry myself with this too much?



    From the test on Feldmans site..
    --==== CholesterolCode.com/Report v0.9.2 ====--
    ...
    6 months on LCHF (20g to 120g carbs) ::: 15 hours water fasted
    ...
    Total Cholesterol:
    13 mg/dL
    0.34 mmol/L
    LDL Cholesterol:
    10 mg/dL
    0.27 mmol/L
    HDL Cholesterol:
    2 mg/dL
    0.06 mmol/L
    Triglycerides:
    1 mg/dL
    0.01 mmol/L

    --CHOLESTEROL REMNANTS--
    Remnant Cholesterol:
    1 mg/dL
    0.03 mmol/L >>> Lowest Risk Quintile
    Remnant Chol to HDL:
    0.5 >>> Medium-High Risk Quintile
    Go to https://tinyurl.com/y8hokam2 for more on Cholesterol Remnants

    --ATHEROGENIC INDEX OF PLASMA (AIP)--
    AIP: -0.778 >>> Lowest Risk Third
    Go to https://tinyurl.com/ycccmmnx for more on Atherogenic Index of Plasma

    --CONVENTIONAL MARKERS AND RATIOS--
    Friedewald LDL-C: 11 | Iranian LDL-C: -28

    Total/HDL Ratio: 6.5

    TG/HDL Ratio in mg/dL: 0.5 | in mmol/L: 0.17
     
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    #28 JoeT1, Apr 27, 2018 at 8:10 PM
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2018
  9. JoeT1

    JoeT1 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    I had my first diabetic clinic yesterday. The specialist is very happy with me, my HBA1C is 5.9%, i'm a good weight, don't eat junk food and my diet is very clean.

    She looked at my cholesterol results and finds it baffling. On arrival into hospital and diagnosis in October last year, my cholesterol was 6.7, 0.88 HDL, 5.0 LDL and I am not sure of trigs, but raised. So a big jump in the good cholesterol and trigs have gone down, everything you'd want, but LDL has gone significantly up.

    It was brought up by her that unless there is a lab mistake here, it seems very unusual. So we are getting my parent's cholesterol results, plus I am going back to the hospital tomorrow to get blood taken again to do another cholesterol test to see where I am at.

    I'm lost....
     
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  10. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
    Staff Member

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    I just 'liked' your post - not because I like the fact that you are lost, but rather because I like the fact that your specialist is looking at this sensibly, checking back for family history, and double checking those results. Nice one.
     
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  11. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    Did she tell you to fast before tomorrow's test? 12-14 hours to clear your trigs of last meal effect?
     
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  12. JoeT1

    JoeT1 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Yep, 12-14 hours which will be no problem for me. The trigs on my test a couple of weeks ago were after fasting too, and were good from what I can see. No idea how the LDL score will come back though.

    It's great that they are taking a sensible approach. She said there is no doubt that statins work, but by the time I was 50, I will have been on them for 20+ years. If it's avoidable, then she would be keen for it to be avoided. She also mentioned about diet, saying that she can tell i'm an intelligent guy, with a good diet, that to be honest the public are not always made aware that diet will probably only contribute about 15% towards the cholesterol levels.
     
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  13. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    Sounds like she's a lot more clued up than most. Good luck with the tests. Let us know the results if you want to.
    M
     
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  14. JoeT1

    JoeT1 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Cholesterol from hospital says 9.2
    LDL 7
    HDL 1.5
    TRIGS - Not Sure

    Now seeing if my parents cholesterol is stable. So, it either dropped by 4 in 10 days, or something weird is going on here.

    Again, no idea
     
  15. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Legend

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    My maths is rubbish, but you can work out your trigs.

    Total = LDL + HDL + 46% of trigs. I think it is 1.52.
     
  16. JoeT1

    JoeT1 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Parents cholesterol never gone above 6, and my dad takes a cholesterol tablet.

    So, not sure but think FH is out. I'm thinking this points towards the keto diet making ldl go up drastically
     
  17. michita

    michita Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    I think and I hope you are right :)

    I've read somewhere that if your low carb diet raises your LDL it's only for temporarily. LDL will come down eventually as your body adjusts. This could take a few months to up to a few years.
     
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  18. JoeT1

    JoeT1 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi All,

    Just an update on this. My last cholesterol check, which was a couple of weeks ago, came in at 8.5 as far as I remember. HDL and Trigs in range, just the LDL is way out of whack. Do we think this could still be pointing towards the Low Carb diet?

    I have an appointment at a bigger hospital next Wednesday in the Lipid Clinic. I am not sure what's going to be looked at here, anyone any experience of this? It worries me slightly as to what might come out of this..

    I guess i'm slightly worried, would my normal blood tests show up something that could be wrong aside from the cholesterol. Kidneys, Liver etc?

    Have I got a basis to say no to statins here.
     
  19. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    Sounds like you could well be a lean mass hyper responder that Dave Feldman is doing quite a lot of work with at the moment.
    There's a facebook group LMHR that could well be worth joining up to and maybe message him about your figures. As you are young and I'm guessing pretty fit then sounds like you could be joining the group that produces a high LDL count when eating keto.
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/LeanMassHyperResponder/about/
    You might well get a lot more info from these guys as they are in the same situation as you I think.
     
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  20. shelley262

    shelley262 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi @JoeT1 youve been given some great advice and not sure can add much but did want to say that I’ve been at 13 too in fact 13.7! It was quite a shock when they said it could be FH especially as as a 62 year old female who hadn’t had very high cholesterol ever, as no family history of heart disease or high cholesterol and who had never had stAtins pushed before this great leap. When I went keto in October/November 2017 my cholesterol had shot up to 8.9 in the November check and then in May 2018 it was 13.7. Neither of these tests were full lipid panels or fasted and I was told I’d have a full lipid panel in August to review but that I was a big heArt attack risk not what you want to be told! I decided that meanwhile I’d make some changes to more Mediterranean fats but not change my ratios. I paid for a private lipids full panel in early June about three weeks after the 13.7 test and saw a drop to 10.8 and more importantly a break down of my Trigs 1.22 and HDL 2.2. I decided as it was having a lowering impact on the ldl ( or maybe it would have lowered anyway!,) I’d carry on and retest privately again which I’m due to do next week. That way I’ll have more info and can think about what to do when the nhs tests are done in August! I’m not planning to take statins unless I can be shown the evidence that I’m really at risk of heart disease but it’s a personal decision . I am planning to ask for other tests to check this risk out such as FH test, a calcium scan and inflammation markers etc. As I’ve got my hbaca1 down to 30, my bmi to 20.1 and I don’t smoke I’d need a lot of convincing.
    Good luck with your strategy it looks from the later test as if you are lowering it and interesting that in the cholesterol code it does seem to be able to be manipulated and makes you wonder how fluid this test can be. Good luck with whatever road you take.
     
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