Refused an ambulance on a 999 call

[lightwolfe]

I know very well what DKA is thank you lightwolfe. I meant the GP was probably being ignorant when he said to keep her hydrated, not the DSN.
As I said it is common for pregnant women to flush out ketones, so the GP was overlooking the fact that she was diabetic, which is bad care of course. I don't know why you responded to me so aggressively!!
I hope your wife is doing ok now.

I apologies if it came across as aggressive.
the way i read it was that the DSN was being ignorant and that ketones was not dangerous.

 

[lucylocket61]

Lightwolfe: Have you read this?

http://www.patient.co.uk/health/Help-with-Travel-Costs-to-Hospital.htm

Maybe you could enquire if you are eligible?

 

[anna29]

Hi All.
This is super info what lucy has found .
Am sure it will be helpful... :thumbup:
I have saved it for my elderly parents to read also.
Thanks lucy :wave:

 

[halfpint]

Please, don't get me going on the inefficiencies of the NHS, my OH suffered more than 10 years of excruciating pain et. etc. still think I should have sued :evil: :cry:

Lightwolfe, do hope that you wife is now feeling much better. I do sympathise, I have been there, where you are worried sick about a loved one and seem to get no help and trying to cope long after the money has run out.

Keep you chin up. Let us know how she gets on.
Hugs.

 

[insanity]

Hope your wife and baby are doing much better now Lightwolfe.

I can't believe they wouldn't send an ambulance, although, we had our own little experience last Christmas with my mum, she rang up with tightness in her chest and pain down her arm (indicators of a potential heart attack/stroke) and they said NHS direct would ring her back! I couldn't believe it. In the end it was nothing worrisome but you'd think they'd think heart attack symptoms would be a high priority.


It is quite bad that they decide off a script, you'd think they would receive some basic training before being allowed to go on the phones, maybe I'm being daft I don't know, just my opinion

 

[Robinredbreast]

What a horrible frightening experience you both went through. I am really shocked by what happened. Not only was a diabetic at possible risk but an unborn baby as well. You just dont know what other complications could of been there as well, pre eclampsia/Eclampsia comes to mind and that is serious.
It doesn't matter if you had a car or not, rich or poor, black or white or young or old. She was pregnant and had ketones and needed, from what I have read, medical assistant.

My elderly dad has recently been admitted to hospital twice with chest infections, an ambulance came on both occassions. He could walk and talk and when the paramedic came into the house he said to my dad," I hear your not well young man",my dad replied "I'm fine, couldn't be better" He was taken to hospital after the initial medical checks and joking with the ambulance paramedic. He was then admitted.

With my very best wishes to you both.

RRB

 

[GraceK]

Lightwolfe ... you should have taken your wife to the nearest town centre, plonked a bottle of alcohol in her hands and told her to lie down on the pavement, vomit and hurl abuse at passers by. The police would have arrived in no time followed by an ambulance and she'd have been treated with the utmost care when she reached A & E ...

Sorry for the sarcasm but this sort of thing incenses me when we have TV programmes openly showing us how many police and ambulance staff are required on a Friday and Saturday night just to sort out the binge drinkers and ensure they don't hurt themselves and yet a pregnant woman on the verge of unconsciousness is refused an ambulance.

It's fine people saying 'couldn't you have got her there yourself' - not everyone has a car, not everyone can call on friends to mind the kids, not everyone has the required cash to get to and from the hospital, - but more importantly - she needed medical assistance quickly and that was stated by her nurse so I feel you were absolutely RIGHT to call an ambulance and to expect one to arrive.

Here's the Patient Opinion website where you can tell your story, they will ask you for details of the service you're not happy about and they WILL contact that service provider who will then get in touch with you. Alternatively, you can contact any PALS (Patient Liaison Service) at any hospital and ask them how you go about making a complaint about the ambulance service.

https://www.patientopinion.org.uk/

And good luck!

 

[Dragonflye]

Hey guys i am stillin hospital with high ketones... my DSN is MAAAAAD, unfortunately my care has been no better than the fiasco this morning with the ambulance with the docs ignorance of ketones... apparently the doc told my dsn "oh she has slight ketones" in which she went mad at him.

I know i read an apology somewhere from my hubby but i would also like to apologise on his behalf too it has been a VERY stressful few days...

at least i only have a maximum of 2 weeks to go although kinda hoping for sooner... lol

 

[lightwolfe]

Hi All
as a further update to my wifes condition at the point we dialed 999 it has been confirmed that she was in full blown DKA so if we had waited for the NHS direct call back for transport there is a very good chance that both my wife and unborn child would be dead now.
she is currently undergoing treatment with potassium to return her blood to normal. i am quite literally shaking with shock and anger while typing with this and cant help but think i would be arranging funerals for her and my baby if i had taken "professional" advise.
It turns out that ambulance services across the UK use a version of the NHS symptom checker that for almost everything diabetic related tells you to speak to your diabetic team....

 

[izzzi]

Hi, Lightwolfe

It turns out that ambulance services across the UK use a version of the NHS symptom checker that for almost everything diabetic related tells you to speak to your diabetic team....

If this is the case, it must be changed as to avoid what happened to you and your wife.

The person that answered your 999 call did not follow proper procedures, ambulance should have been alerted then sent to your address.

If it was not a emergency NHS symptom checker may be used but not in your case.

Hope everything gets better for you and your family.

Roy.

 

[GraceK]

Hi All
as a further update to my wifes condition at the point we dialed 999 it has been confirmed that she was in full blown DKA so if we had waited for the NHS direct call back for transport there is a very good chance that both my wife and unborn child would be dead now.
she is currently undergoing treatment with potassium to return her blood to normal. i am quite literally shaking with shock and anger while typing with this and cant help but think i would be arranging funerals for her and my baby if i had taken "professional" advise.
It turns out that ambulance services across the UK use a version of the NHS symptom checker that for almost everything diabetic related tells you to speak to your diabetic team....

I can imagine just how you feel and I sincerely hope your wife and baby are OK. When you have time please put your anger into telling about your experience here - https://www.patientopinion.org.uk/ It WILL be passed on to the relevant service and it HAS to be looked at and responded to. You'll be doing a service not just to your wife and child but to others who may experience similar atrocious responses. Tell it exactly as you've told us on this forum. Your story will be sent to the relevant service for their action and response. Only by doing this do these stupidities get looked at and the systems changed. We shouldn't have to complain but the fact is, if we don't, nothing changes. And the other thing is - other PATIENTS read that website, it spurs people on to not stand for any nonsense in future.

Wishing wife and baby and yourself all the very best :thumbup:

 

[GraceK]

Hey guys i am stillin hospital with high ketones... my DSN is MAAAAAD, unfortunately my care has been no better than the fiasco this morning with the ambulance with the docs ignorance of ketones... apparently the doc told my dsn "oh she has slight ketones" in which she went mad at him.

I know i read an apology somewhere from my hubby but i would also like to apologise on his behalf too it has been a VERY stressful few days...

at least i only have a maximum of 2 weeks to go although kinda hoping for sooner... lol

I hope you and baby and your hubby are doing well now Dragonflye after your horrible experience ... as for apologising ... I personally wouldn't have thought there was any need for apologies here ... anyone with an ounce of empathy could tell by his posts that he was out of his mind with worry about you and baby and he didn't know which way to turn. I think a bit of curtness could easily be forgiven under the circumstances and no more said about it. Speedy recovery to all :thumbup:

 

[gbswales]

I dont understand all the medical technicalities but what I do deplore is the people on here who have the audacity to suppose that you were not doing all you could for your wife - you shouldnt have to justfify yourself in this way to answer their thoughtless and unkind comments. No doubt they are being brainwashed by Cameron advocating the everyone look after yourelves policies.

If we dont have the resources to fund proper care for people then we should all pay more tax - how can cutting taxation be justified when you are cutting basic services.

As for the ambulance service they could save thousand of pounds every day. In the area I live there is a voluntary driver service where for 50P a mile those people able to get into a car could be taken to and from hospital at a fraction of the cost of sending out an ambulance with two person crew. Many of the largley immobile people who need them cannot afford to pay this from the pensions each week - but the National health could save a fortune in our small area by making use of this service by re-imbursing patients. There is not even any hanging around as most times the drivers will wait and take people back home without any waiting time charge. Even taxi's must be many times cheaper to use than ambulances (especially if contracted) Their trips to hospital are planned and not affordable but it irks me that the crewe that could have attended to your wife may have been spending time running what used to be the hospital car service.

Anyone can be ill or struck down by a life long condition - why should that family be worse off than other families, enjoying the privilege of good health, by having to fork out for expensive cab runs for essentia hospital visits, why should there children be deprived of things to help the better off sit back and say everyone should take care of themselvese.

 

[Paraman365]

As someone who works for an ambulance service what happened is correct as governed by clinical guidelines for emergency treatment. If your Dr or DN thinks it is an emergency and life threatening then THEY should have made the call and an ambo would have been sent

 

[GraceK]

As someone who works for an ambulance service what happened is correct as governed by clinical guidelines for emergency treatment. If your Dr or DN thinks it is an emergency and life threatening then THEY should have made the call and an ambo would have been sent

Looks like it's time ALL the NHS services got their act together then doesn't it and stopped passing the buck - the above does not help or support the people who called an ambulance because they were no doubt afraid the situation was URGENT. People don't need the rule book read to them on those occasions, they need a service that damned well WORKS and one that also CARES.

 

[lightwolfe]

As someone who works for an ambulance service what happened is correct as governed by clinical guidelines for emergency treatment. If your Dr or DN thinks it is an emergency and life threatening then THEY should have made the call and an ambo would have been sent

well if it is correct that my wife and unborn child almost died because of what is obviously gross incompetence by the ambulance service and the people that make the guidelines please explain to me why when someone is completely off there face after drinking too much on a Saturday night do they get an ambulance no questions asked?
as for why the DSN did not call the ambulance we contacted her while she was off duty as she actually gives a **** about what happens to her patients and provides people with an emergency contact number and as she does not have access to what is confidential patient records at home it would have been irresponsible of her to make the call.
i would also love to know why in clinical guidelines ketones are not classed as a severe condition, This reminds me of when i had to call 999 for a hypo as she was unconscious and having seizures due to low sugars. not only did the doctor at A&E try to give her insulin to bring her round she was discharged with sugars just over 2.
i can quite honestly say i am loosing all faith in the NHS, Ambulance Service and pretty much any doctor they hire. not to mention anyone that defends them as doing the right thing when they quite clearly hire staff that do little more than complete an nhs symptom checker.

 

[lightwolfe]

This is material taken from the NHS itself about DKA. I think the BOLD bits say it all
http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/diabetic-k ... ction.aspx


Diabetic ketoacidosis (DKA) is a dangerous complication of diabetes that is caused by a lack of insulin in the body.

DKA occurs when the body is unable to break down glucose because there isn't enough insulin. Instead, it breaks down fat as an alternative source of fuel. This causes a build-up of a by-product called ketones.

Most cases of DKA occur in people with type 1 diabetes, although it can also be a complication of type 2 diabetes.

Symptoms of DKA include:

passing large amounts of urine
feeling very thirsty
vomiting
abdominal pain

If you notice any of the symptoms of DKA and your blood sugar levels are high, ask for immediate medical help.

Read more about the symptoms of diabetic ketoacidosis.
Is DKA serious?

Ketones disrupt the metabolism, and the more ketones that are produced, the more ill a person with DKA will become.

Left untreated, people with DKA can experience potentially fatal complications, such as severe dehydration, coma and swelling of the brain.

Read more about the complications of diabetic ketoacidosis.
Treating DKA

If DKA is diagnosed while still in its early stages, it may be possible to relieve the symptoms and restore the normal workings of the body with an insulin injection.

People with more advanced symptoms will need to be admitted to hospital where they will be given a combination of insulin and fluids to prevent complications.

Read more about treating diabetic ketoacidosis.
DKA triggers

Triggers for DKA include:

bacterial infections, such as pneumonia (infection of the lungs)
failing to follow the recommended treatment for type 1 diabetes (regular insulin injections)
drug misuse or alcohol misuse

Read more about the potential causes of diabetic ketoacidosis.
Preventing DKA

If you have type 1 diabetes, it's important that you follow your recommended treatment plan, both in terms of taking regular insulin injections as directed and monitoring your blood glucose levels for any unusual activity.

Read more about preventing diabetic ketoacidosis.
Who is affected by DKA?

DKA is a relatively common complication in people with diabetes, particularly children and younger adults who have type 1 diabetes.

In around one-in-four cases, DKA develops in people who were previously unaware that they had type 1 diabetes.

DKA accounts for around half of all diabetes-related hospital admissions in people with type 1 diabetes.

Younger children under the age of four are the ones thought to be most at risk.

Last reviewed: 22/09/2011

Next review due: 22/09/2013

 

[raesj]

I had a similar situation when I had un-diagnosed viral meningitis for 4 days. (I had been to A&E on day one, and was sent home with headache and sickness tablets!) By day 4, my sister came round and called an ambulance, but we were told that because I had already been to A&E to go and see my GP in the morning. This was about 12 years ago now, and I wasn't prescribed sticks to check for ketones, so we got a taxi to A&E. After about an hour of waiting there, I went to the toilet, where I collapsed. After breaking in and being rescues by nurses, my sister was told whilst I was in re-sus that I had very little chance of survival...... and it wasn't due to the meningitis, but the DKA....... I hope your wife has a happy pregnancy, and your baby is born safe and well. Rae x

 

[GraceK]

I had a similar situation when I had un-diagnosed viral meningitis for 4 days. (I had been to A&E on day one, and was sent home with headache and sickness tablets!) By day 4, my sister came round and called an ambulance, but we were told that because I had already been to A&E to go and see my GP in the morning. This was about 12 years ago now, and I wasn't prescribed sticks to check for ketones, so we got a taxi to A&E. After about an hour of waiting there, I went to the toilet, where I collapsed. After breaking in and being rescues by nurses, my sister was told whilst I was in re-sus that I had very little chance of survival...... and it wasn't due to the meningitis, but the DKA....... I hope your wife has a happy pregnancy, and your baby is born safe and well. Rae x

I'm really sorry you had that experience raesj ... but your experience shows exactly what happens when people 'follow guidelines' with absolute rigidity and don't apply common sense or compassion. What happens is ... patients get passed around 'the system' as one clinician after another ticks their little boxes to say they've done x, y and z. This happens all the time in the NHS, whether it's a phone call to make an enquiry or a patient being sent from GP, to Walk In Centre to A & E ... there's ALWAYS someone else they can refer you to when they've done their bit and ticked their box or when they don't know what the hell's wrong with you. In the meantime, the patient gets exhausted either waiting for appointments or running to different NHS departments to try to get diagnoses and treatment. We're like bloody ping pong balls being played with and it's ONLY when we absolutely PHYSICALLY DROP DOWN do they seem to notice us and actually DO SOMETHING, the suddenly its a 'medical emergency' and it's all systems go. Sometimes I think they're just hooked on the drama so much they miss the small signs that could prevent a drama occurring in the first place.

That's where all the resource wastage is in the NHS ... far too many 'jobsworths' doing their little bit without any compassion at all for the patient and getting paid for it. And far too many patients accepting poor service and also far too willing to accept the MYTH that the NHS is FREE so we should be grateful for it and not complain.

It is NOT free at all. It's paid for out of our taxes and NI and from other sources and it's only free AT THE POINT OF ACCESS which means we don't have to pay each time we visit the doctor because we've already paid. We're now paying over £7 for a handful of tablets that probably cost about 1p each so we ARE paying.

 

[Sarah69]

I have been a type 2 (on insulin) diabetic for 15 years. In 2010 I was vomiting all day, (the day before hadnt eaten due to no appetite) had an emergency appointment at GP's she said there was a bug going round and to drink fluids difficult as it was all coming back up, so I went home. After going to bed not being able to sleep I then began having trouble breathing so my son called an ambulance. They came I explained how id been all day, they did their checks and said I was having a panic attack. After a while I managed to breath properly, they said they would call the on call dr who came out to me several hours later. The dr said I was dehydrated and needed to be in hospital so he called an ambulance and said it was non urgent so they came several hours later. Once in hospital blood tests were done and I was diagnosed with DKA. I had never heard of this before and didnt realise how serious it was until my parents came in later that day and told me! It was my fault I had this as I had no appetite and wasn't eating I wasn't injecting my insulin. I do believe that when you are insulin dependant you should be warned of dangers like DKA! My son believes that the paramedics should of taken me to the hospital when he called them just due to being diabetic and being sick every half an hour all day.