Refusing meds - radical diet change

[Nike69]

Is there anyone else trying to reboot their pancreas? Is there anyone refusing thee meds and getting their diabetes in control by diet and exercise?

 

[Yorksman]

Is there anyone else trying to reboot their pancreas? Is there anyone refusing thee meds and getting their diabetes in control by diet and exercise?

Reminds me of the days when cars had carburettors and giving too much choke would flood the engine and soot would get deposited on the spark plugs and the car wouldn't start. You either removed the spark plugs or sometimes, now and again, a bump start would get the thing firing on all cylinders again which in turn would burn off the soot clogging the spark gap.

Diet and exercise will allow you get your BG under control without the need for meds for a certain amount of time. The problem with meds is that they treat the symptom, not the cause, which is a failure of the beta cell function. By the time of diagnosis, diabetics have lost about 50% of their beta cell mass, in both lean and obese individuals. Nearly all research has focussed on the insulin aspect and hence meds seek to manage this aspect. It's like taking asprin because of a headache, without knowing why you have the headache in the first place.

How to reboot your pancreas and liver and possibly restore the beta cell function or at least halt its decline is the focus of the new research. There are no answers yet but you will almost certainly buy yourself time before you have to go on meds. You will probably find this research of interest:

Targeting Beta-Cell Function Early in the Course of Therapy for Type 2 Diabetes Mellitus

http://www.betacellsindiabetes.org/betacell-science

Have a look at the section Preventing, Delaying, and Reversing β-cell Failure. It's restricted to animals at the moment but it's a start and particularly encouraging is the observation "associations between acute glucose lowering and improved acute insulin secretory responses more directly suggest improved β-cell function."

Anyway, I feel much better having lost some weight and gotten a bit fitter so, even if I still have diabetes, I am enjoying life more and, as far as food is concerned, I have never eaten better, simply because I take more time and put in more effort into preparing what I eat.

 

[Superchip]

Very informative and entertaining post Yorksman !

Thank you...

Superchip

 

[Yorksman]

Well I just responded to Nike's 'rebooting the pancreas'. I don't seem to be able to find the cntrl, alt and del keys on this organic keyboard of mine.

 

[MCMLXXIII]

Gymnema sylvestre has beta cell restorative qualities.

Flaxseed also can repair cell damage caused by sugar.

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[Yorksman]

Gymnema sylvestre has beta cell restorative qualities.

Not quite. GS stimulates insulin release but it does so by cell permeability. It's not restoring lost beta cells, rather it is making the best of what you have.

 

[MCMLXXIII]

"Gymnema Sylvestre has its active component GS4, which raises the number of beta cells in the pancreas. Thus, the internal production of insulin (the amount of insulin produced by our body itself) is enhanced.However, G. sylvestre cannot be used in place of insulin to control blood sugar by people with either type 1 or type 2 diabetes".
Well now I'm confused.

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[Yorksman]

"Gymnema Sylvestre has its active component GS4, which raises the number of beta cells in the pancreas. Thus, the internal production of insulin (the amount of insulin produced by our body itself) is enhanced.However, G. sylvestre cannot be used in place of insulin to control blood sugar by people with either type 1 or type 2 diabetes".

Well now I'm confused.

To avoid confusion, you need to choose the sources that you rely on more carefully. The site that you have relied on is one of complimentary medicine which has taken a hypothesis which has yet to be confirmed and which has never been tested on human beings but which has nonetheless presented it as fact.

You are quoting what wiki says and the person who wrote that wiki page refers to this page as a source:
http://www.all-about-beating-diabetes.c ... betes.html

If you go to the home page of that site you will immediately see what that site is all about, selling books on lifestyle, natural remedies and diets.

http://www.all-about-beating-diabetes.com

Scientists have only ever done this research on rats and mice so that source cannot possibly make the claim that it does. You'll notice that it makes the claim but provides no evidence to support the claim. It does not provide any reference for the research, no scientific paper, no experiement. It's just a false conclusion based on anecdotal evidence. What is happening is that there is an improved insulin response but that is not because of a restoration of the beta cell function as claimed but because of the improved permeability within the cell wall.

The web site that you are quoting is based on a hypothesis which is over 20 years old. You see it being hypothesised in many papers, eg:

1990 Shanmugasundaram et al. Use of Gymnema sylvestre leaf extract in the control of blood glucose in insulin-dependent diabetes mellitus

"GS4 therapy appears to enhance endogenous insulin, possibly by regeneration/ revitalisation of the residual beta cells in insulin-dependent diabetes mellitus."

or

1990 Baskaran et al. Antidiabetic effect of a leaf extract from Gymnema sylvestre in non-insulin-dependent diabetes mellitus patients

"These data suggest that the beta cells may be regenerated/repaired in Type 2 diabetic patients on GS4 supplementation. This is supported by the appearance of raised insulin levels in the serum of patients after GS4 supplementation."

But what was actually going on was explained within the decade:

1999 Persaud et al. Gymnema sylvestre stimulates insulin release in vitro by increased membrane permeability

"These results confirm the stimulatory effects of G. sylvestre on insulin release, but indicate that GS4 acts by increasing cell permeability, rather than by stimulating exocytosis by regulated pathways. Thus the suitability of GS4 as a potential novel treatment for NIDDM can not be assessed by direct measurements of beta-cell function in vitro."

which is what I quoted. No scientific paper has yet published any research which shows that consumption of this leaf extract restores the beta cell function. It does seem to improve insulin sensitivity but to say that it is a cure for the decline in the beta cell function is not demonstrated.

 

[MCMLXXIII]

Thankyou for the detailed explanations.
Particularly your original post is of deep interest.
I do see your points. Like bitter melon, gymnema is a popular "natural" treatment and with such never offers any guarantees.
If that were the case we would bypass the doctors and all be off to Holland and Barrett.
What is interesting is the scientifically documented side effects of statins and other related modern treatments for diabetes and its related ailments is equally as damming as the heralded latest natural cures.
I personally sit on the fence. But admittedly would rather take a natural treatment than its modern equivalent.
I currently take a multivitamin with extra chromium,vitamin D and l cartine. Plus flaxseed.
In the past before i stabilized my condition i took African mango, ginseng .and good old green tea. And of course gymnema. Lots of fibre, healthy oils and the omission of trans fats and hydrogenated fats.
I also took on a 3 month regime to detox my liver.
15 minutes daily on a cross trainer.
I had a a hb1ac of around 14 at diagnosis which is now 6.1, my circulation. ( and skin) is better and i a have a healthy bmi.
All thanks to a natural approach from which i am living proof of progressive results.
I had a few misses, cinnamon seems to offer me no benefits.
I tried both varieties. Cassia and ceylon.
My next approach to further improvement is to lower my carbs intake as i cant seem to get my blood below 5.9.
Also my cholesterol overall was recently 4.1 but triglycerides were 2.3 so work needed there.
Mind you I'll take the over the original number at diagnosis. Must have been a walking chip pan.
Best of luck to you with your diabetes.:smile:





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[Yorksman]

In the past before i stabilized my condition

No one doubts, given the correct foods and exercise, the effects of diabetes can be ameliorated, but reversing the decline of the beta cell is rather different from stabilisation, to use your description of your own condition.

But stabilisation is not what Nike69 was referring to when he used the expression 'rebooting the pancreas'. Nor was he asking about complimentary or herbal remedies, though I do accept that many medications are no more than that, refined plant extracts. It's the nature of the benefit that is important and whilst increased insulin sensitivity is a worthwhile benefit, it is wrong to state that it is a cure.

I am well aware that processual medicine can be wasteful and potentially hazardous. The approach to the majority of patients with anemia for example is 'stick a couple of pints of blood in them', whereas in most of those cases a handful of iron tablets costing a few pence would solve the problem. It's potentially dangerous and it is expensive.

 

[MCMLXXIII]

I think we differ on what we class as a cure.:smile:
I'm saying beta cells can be regenerated but you're saying this applies only the remaining cells that we have left to function more efficiently. ( perhaps with gymnema )
Therefore what I'm seeing as a cure, your good self ( perhaps rightly so) see it as more of workaround.
Until science can definitively truly restore lost beta pancreatic cells then there isn't what you would consider a cure?
Stem cell research offers genuine promise.
To lend the terminology of the OP:
I am fragmented. I'll take a reboot. Or maybe i will try ccleaner.

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[Yorksman]

I think we differ on what we class as a cure.:smile:

I have only mentioned cure in relation to the decline of the beta cell function. For one researcher's statement of a cure for diabetes, you may refer, for example, to Lim et. al. (2011): 'Reversal of type 2 diabetes: normalisation of beta cell function in association with decreased pancreas and liver triacylglycerol'

"Type 2 diabetes is regarded as inevitably progressive, with irreversible beta cell failure. The hypothesis was tested that both beta cell failure and insulin resistance can be reversed by dietary restriction of energy intake."

To understand the roll of beta cells, you may find the abstract of Bouwens et al. (2005) informative:

Bouwens, Luc, and Ilse Rooman. Regulation of Pancreatic Beta-Cell Mass.
Physiol Rev 85: 1255–1270, 2005; doi:10.1152/physrev.00025.2004.—

Beta-cell mass regulation represents a critical issue for understanding diabetes, a disease characterized by a near-absolute (type 1) or relative (type 2) deficiency in the number of pancreatic beta cells. The number of islet beta cells present at birth is mainly generated by the proliferation and differentiation of pancreatic progenitor cells, a process called neogenesis. Shortly after birth, beta-cell neogenesis stops and a small proportion of cycling beta cells can still expand the cell number to compensate for increased insulin demands, albeit at a slow rate. The low capacity for self-replication in the adult is too limited to result in a significant regeneration following extensive tissue injury. Likewise, chronically increased metabolic demands can lead to beta-cell failure to compensate. Neogenesis from progenitor cells inside or outside islets represents a more potent mechanism leading to robust expansion of the beta-cell mass, but it may require external stimuli. For therapeutic purposes, advantage could be taken from the surprising differentiation plasticity of adult pancreatic cells and possibly also from stem cells. Recent studies have demonstrated that it is feasible to regenerate and expand the beta-cell mass by the application of hormones and growth factors like glucagon-like peptide-1, gastrin, epidermal growth factor, and others. Treatment with these external stimuli can restore a functional beta-cell mass in diabetic animals, but further studies are required before it can be applied to humans.

As you can see, in 2005 the researchers, as in the research from 1990 to which you referred, were unable to demonstrate that the observed effect in rats and mice is the same for humans. Studies on the pancreas are limited to post mortem studies. We don't know if the beta cell mass is regenerated without killing the patient. All we can do is look for improvements to insulin sensitivity or levels but, on its own, that doesn't mean the beta cell mass has been regenerated. Something else could be going on, such as Persaud observed above.

 

[Sid Bonkers]

IMHO at this point in time it is not possible to restore pancreatic function but it is possible to remove visceral fat from around it (the pancreas) and the other organs which cause insulin resistance in T2 diabetes. The best thing any overweight diabetic can do is to lose weight.

Even a very low carb diet is only treating the symptom where as losing weight can, for overweight T2's, help to reduce insulin resistance which is a very large part of T2 diabetes, unlike T1 its not all about lack of pancreatic function although like T1 once damage has occurred it is (at present) irreversible.

The Overweight T2 Diabetics Serenity Prayer:
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, (Pancreatic function)
The courage to change the things I can, (lose weight & visceral fat and reduce insulin resistance)
And wisdom to know the difference.

This is why the Newcastle Study diet was seen to work so well in T2 diabetics if undertaken within 3 years of diagnosis...The subjects had visceral fat and relatively good pancreatic function.

 

[MCMLXXIII]

Then this would be why i was diagnosed with "fatty liver" and whatever and however i did it I'm now much improved.
I did think logically after my initial diagnosis this crude metaphor, "chips are better fried in clean oil than dirty oil", they turn out better. (I wont even go into goose fat..:smile
Therefore improving my overall health and fitness and cleansing and detoxification of my internal organs and bloods have made significant improvements to the function of my pancreas , beta cell performance and thereby condition of type 2 Diabetes.
Once again some interesting reference material there, thankyou.


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