Reversing T2 With Diet - Who Has Done It And Who Wants To Give It A Go?

[Winnie53]

@Roytaylorjasonfunglover it's working now, thanks!

 

[Steve50]

HI All

Update

I have fallen into a pattern of 3 day fasting (Monday - Wednesday). This is my 3rd week. Don't know how that happened! It just felt right. By the end of day 3 I'm feeling pretty rough - so need to take on some solids. Weight up and down (as you would expect) but sugar levels are dropping nicely. Also hand pain is easing - a little.

I think it's worth continuing this pattern for now and see where it takes me.

Wish I could do more than 3 days though - I'm inpatient for results!

 

[Steve50]

Just a quick follow up. Weight and sugar both down dramatically on day 3 of the fast. All good.

Thanks for the links re neuropathy. Thinking my hand pain may be linked to arthritis. Why? This is a rather long bow to draw - but the pain seems to be mostly in the three middle fingers of my left hand. In a past professional life I used to be a French Horn player. Hmmmmmm!!!!!

 

[Living-by-the-beach]

HI All

Update

I have fallen into a pattern of 3 day fasting (Monday - Wednesday). This is my 3rd week. Don't know how that happened! It just felt right. By the end of day 3 I'm feeling pretty rough - so need to take on some solids. Weight up and down (as you would expect) but sugar levels are dropping nicely. Also hand pain is easing - a little.

I think it's worth continuing this pattern for now and see where it takes me.

Wish I could do more than 3 days though - I'm inpatient for results!

@Steve50

Going back to PFT (Personal Fat Threshold) of #ProfessorTaylor the liver clears sooner than the pancreas. I've been managing to fast just 3 days then back to eating. I'm now at 40hours without food and I hope to make it to 68 hours before the fasting gets the better of me. I find that its not until the second morning post starting to fast that I get sub 100mg/dl (non diabetic) numbers. The longer and more frequently we can endure past 60 hours fasting will our bodies repair their pancreas. Its just that livers store short term food for 24 hours of a minimum before the cleansing starts on the pancreas (if I've understood that correctly) at least this has been my experience.. It just takes time

 

[Bebo321]

Out of interest, has anybody been watching the 'Retreat' BBC2 at 7pm? I noticed that everybody began the month long retreat with a 7 day fast. I wonder what the detox drink consisted of? Do we all need to do colonic irrigation to get the full effects

 

[Cauliflower_rice]

@Living-by-the-beach I also have lost a similar amount of weight and my BMI is also probably similar, although as a measurement I don't believe it's particularly relevant.

I consider T2D to be incurable, but you can certainly alleviate the symptoms and make significant improvement to your health by reducing your need for Insulin, and the best ways to do this is by following a Low Carb lifestyle and Fasting occasionally.

I agree the Pharmaceutical and Health Industries appear to want to promote Insulin usage and drugs that do the same, both of which appear nonsensical to me as a way to treat a disease that is usually caused by resistance to Insulin.

I think that I have made improvements to my Insulin sensitivity due to intermittent fasting and continuing Low Carb eating, and I believe that is the way forward.

Good luck with your attempts. We are all different and will get different responses, but it must be the logical path to follow.[/QUOTE

@Living-by-the-beach I also have lost a similar amount of weight and my BMI is also probably similar, although as a measurement I don't believe it's particularly relevant.


I consider T2D to be incurable, but you can certainly alleviate the symptoms and make significant improvement to your health by reducing your need for Insulin, and the best ways to do this is by following a Low Carb lifestyle and Fasting occasionally.

I agree the Pharmaceutical and Health Industries appear to want to promote Insulin usage and drugs that do the same, both of which appear nonsensical to me as a way to treat a disease that is usually caused by resistance to Insulin.

I think that I have made improvements to my Insulin sensitivity due to intermittent fasting and continuing Low Carb eating, and I believe that is the way forward.

Good luck with your attempts. We are all different and will get different responses, but it must be the logical path to follow.

Ok, Ive only skimmed the notes on this thread... Firstly AMAZING ac1 progress, I am on insulin and insulin resistant (no metformin)... Im on low carb... its not making much difference - still insulin issues. So how often is intermittent fasting? How much protein do you eat? How much butter do you eat? how much carb is low carb and do you calorie count? Please take my questions as a compliment - I really want to follow your way and obtain such fabulous Ac1 results. Do you exercise, I ask this as I take glucose tablets when exercising -

 

[bulkbiker]

Out of interest, has anybody been watching the 'Retreat' BBC2 at 7pm? I noticed that everybody began the month long retreat with a 7 day fast. I wonder what the detox drink consisted of? Do we all need to do colonic irrigation to get the full effects

I doubt it.. I have experienced it once.. not especially nice especially the forceful diarrhoea that comes just after. An ex bought me a session at the one Lady Di used to use - friend of Gillian McKeith.. hopefully that says enough. Just take some metformin for similar effect!

 

[Pipp]

Out of interest, has anybody been watching the 'Retreat' BBC2 at 7pm? I noticed that everybody began the month long retreat with a 7 day fast. I wonder what the detox drink consisted of? Do we all need to do colonic irrigation to get the full effects

Hi @Bebo321
I haven't seen the programme, but just wanted to say that I irrigate my colon by drinking plenty of water. Also that the direction of flow of liquid has been from the inside to outside, and will never be the opposite direction. Our bodies were not designed for that.

 

[Bebo321]

Hi @Bebo321
I haven't seen the programme, but just wanted to say that I irrigate my colon by drinking plenty of water. Also that the direction of flow of liquid has been from the inside to outside, and will never be the opposite direction. Our bodies were not designed for that.

Lol! I'm with you on that one @Pipp. I noticed that it was part of the initial detox 'formula' though and it seemed that it was found to be beneficial (even for some who were equally speculative). I guess it's a case of each to their own.

 

[Bebo321]

I doubt it.. I have experienced it once.. not especially nice especially the forceful diarrhoea that comes just after. An ex bought me a session at the one Lady Di used to use - friend of Gillian McKeith.. hopefully that says enough. Just take some metformin for similar effect!

Thanks for sharing that - I was curious if others had found it a useful experience (or not). I try to keep an open mind rather than pooh pooh things

 

[britishpub]

Ok, Ive only skimmed the notes on this thread... Firstly AMAZING ac1 progress, I am on insulin and insulin resistant (no metformin)... Im on low carb... its not making much difference - still insulin issues. So how often is intermittent fasting? How much protein do you eat? How much butter do you eat? how much carb is low carb and do you calorie count? Please take my questions as a compliment - I really want to follow your way and obtain such fabulous Ac1 results. Do you exercise, I ask this as I take glucose tablets when exercising -

I have followed a 5:2 IF regime, fasting for 24 hours, usually on a Tuesday and Thursday, although I do it much less often nowadays. I don't actually count or measure what I eat, so an exact amount of protein is hard to be certain of, but I would guess about 90-120g a day, and as for Carbs, again I don't measure on a day by day basis, but it will often be less than 30g, and never more than 80g. My calorie intake will be in the 1,500 to 1,800 range per day I guess. As for exercise I don't do any in particular, but I do usually manage 10K+ steps, often exceeding 15K according to the counter thingie on my i-phone.

 

[Steve50]

Out of interest, has anybody been watching the 'Retreat' BBC2 at 7pm? I noticed that everybody began the month long retreat with a 7 day fast. I wonder what the detox drink consisted of? Do we all need to do colonic irrigation to get the full effects

Hi Bebo

Yep - watched 'Retreat'. Also saw that 'Diabetes' program on BBC1 last night. I learned a bit that I didn't already know - such as how awful and gruesome amputations are - and how black gangrene looks on tele.

The Retreat did revisit one interesting theory - the 7 day fast T2 reversal. The idea that the liver stores a good supply of fat - so it takes a couple of days to go into ketosis - which is when the pancreas starts to free up of fat.

On the 3 day fasts, success usually comes on day 3 for me - which is of course the hardest day! It's when I usually feel quite ill - and need to resolve it with some food. Therefore it is a short lived low.

So this week - my 3rd week of short fasts (I've done 3 day fasts for the last two weeks) I am going for 7 days. I think saying it here in this blog commits me to it. I know I have to find something to get over the day 3 hump. Mental strength is fine to a point - visions of amputations and gangrene - well, they are just frightening - knowledge that the 7 day target works for a lot of people - all helps.

I started on Monday - so it is only day 2. I figured the last 2 days should be Saturday and Sunday - in case I have no energy. I can sleep! The tricky day will be Friday. I have to teach. I think I'll have the energy for it - but at that stage in the fast the stomach becomes a little - lets call it - unpredictable! So - fingers (and perhaps legs) crossed!

I'll update you as the week goes on. After day 1 - weight down 1.6kg - sugar down by 1.6.

 

[bulkbiker]

Hopefully you'll find as I have that it gets easier the longer you go for. Good luck with it anyway.

 

[Bebo321]

Hi Bebo

Yep - watched 'Retreat'. Also saw that 'Diabetes' program on BBC1 last night. I learned a bit that I didn't already know - such as how awful and gruesome amputations are - and how black gangrene looks on tele.

The Retreat did revisit one interesting theory - the 7 day fast T2 reversal. The idea that the liver stores a good supply of fat - so it takes a couple of days to go into ketosis - which is when the pancreas starts to free up of fat.

On the 3 day fasts, success usually comes on day 3 for me - which is of course the hardest day! It's when I usually feel quite ill - and need to resolve it with some food. Therefore it is a short lived low.

So this week - my 3rd week of short fasts (I've done 3 day fasts for the last two weeks) I am going for 7 days. I think saying it here in this blog commits me to it. I know I have to find something to get over the day 3 hump. Mental strength is fine to a point - visions of amputations and gangrene - well, they are just frightening - knowledge that the 7 day target works for a lot of people - all helps.

I started on Monday - so it is only day 2. I figured the last 2 days should be Saturday and Sunday - in case I have no energy. I can sleep! The tricky day will be Friday. I have to teach. I think I'll have the energy for it - but at that stage in the fast the stomach becomes a little - lets call it - unpredictable! So - fingers (and perhaps legs) crossed!

I'll update you as the week goes on. After day 1 - weight down 1.6kg - sugar down by 1.6.

Wow! Good luck and all power to you.
The body does have quite a bit of stored glucose energy in the form of glycogen. I am guessing that this gradually lowers until ketosis really kicks in and the liver is in full fat burning mode. Any exercise you do will be a double whammy for fat burning - especially anything that combines a good amount of endurance with short bursts of intensive exercise.

I personally didn't like the documentary last night. I thought it was very negative and skewed - it didn't look at those successfully managing diabetes through diet and exercise or those who have pretty much 'reversed' their condition and now feel better than ever. It beggars belief that they suggested that bariatric surgery is somehow a magic bullet.
I am guessing that anyone with T2D watching that will have been pretty horrified at the prospect of what they are apparently facing - except they aren't. Anyone who proactively manages their diabetes can live healthily to a ripe old age and avoid any complications.
I'm not a big fan of using fear to drive change and prefer a positive approach that encourages people to make informed choices.

Fingers crossed that you get through your whole fast - if you're about to wobble, come onto the forum and we can give you some encouragement.

 

[Steve50]

Wow! Good luck and all power to you.
The body does have quite a bit of stored glucose energy in the form of glycogen. I am guessing that this gradually lowers until ketosis really kicks in and the liver is in full fat burning mode. Any exercise you do will be a double whammy for fat burning - especially anything that combines a good amount of endurance with short bursts of intensive exercise.

I personally didn't like the documentary last night. I thought it was very negative and skewed - it didn't look at those successfully managing diabetes through diet and exercise or those who have pretty much 'reversed' their condition and now feel better than ever. It beggars belief that they suggested that bariatric surgery is somehow a magic bullet.
I am guessing that anyone with T2D watching that will have been pretty horrified at the prospect of what they are apparently facing - except they aren't. Anyone who proactively manages their diabetes can live healthily to a ripe old age and avoid any complications.
I'm not a big fan of using fear to drive change and prefer a positive approach that encourages people to make informed choices.

Fingers crossed that you get through your whole fast - if you're about to wobble, come onto the forum and we can give you some encouragement.

Hi Bebo

Agree - media does not explore it's own bias, or flawed science - Gillian McKieth - case to point! I though they did emphasis diet as a control - but as you say, not in balance or with as much graphic footage. I guess it's not as televisual to show an image of an aircraft that lands safely - compared with one that crashes! I did notice that the poor lady with the 'above the knee' amputation was 2 years younger than me in age and about 30 years older than me in appearance.

Quite shocking that we as a society are not doing more to address this (did you notice the amount of subliminal 'advertising' of fast food outlets throughout the programme?). Also - the consultants at Birmingham were very much in a state of fighting the alligators - forgetting they originally went there to drain the swamp! It was all about figures, national trends and costs and cost saving operations - and little about prevention. This is not an NHS problem!! When are we going to get that message through to society?

Perhaps reintroducing 'Cooking' (lets not call it food science) into schools - increasing physical activity and movement in all aspects of the curriculum - and 'stop giving your kids lunch money'! - make them something to take or have a healthy school lunch if there is such a thing. We had a school vegie garden at my school where I grew up in South Australia. I've noticed (through parenting) that kids do not have an innate 'starvation' instinct. If they do not like what they are given to eat - they will kick off - but if you don't provide their preferred alternative, when hunger gradually takes hold - they buckle. The breaking strain of a KitKat some of them (apologies for the poor analogy).

I'm really on the horse of hobby now!!!!

What about the sugar tax? We tax alcohol and tobacco - and these seem to be presenting fewer adverse health outcomes.

What about addressing the imbalance of commercialism vs public heath. Commercial 'wrong food and drink' companies advertise, promote and exert commercial influences in almost every public space (the High street, the sponsoring of sport etc..) Can you imagine buying a hamburger in a plain white box - or one with an image of an amputee - like you would buy cigarettes in Australia with a picture of a manky lung or blocked artery?

Perhaps we should petition the BBC to make more programmes - a series in a format like 'Big Brother' or the 'X Factor' where the contestants are challenged to explore the risks to their T2 presented in everyday life and find creative ways to overcome them - and they achieve through public endorsement! - ok - it's not fully worked out yet - but if anyone is interested in helping with the concept - we can pitch it together to the BBC?

 

[Steve50]

Day 3 - the 'Hump'!

After 2 days the weight is down (considerably) by 2.7 kg. Must be mostly water. I feel I have gone into ketosis (if having a white tongue and breath like a camels armpit are any indication), But blood levels are not falling much - hovering just above normal.

 

[Living-by-the-beach]

Day 3 - the 'Hump'!

After 2 days the weight is down (considerably) by 2.7 kg. Must be mostly water. I feel I have gone into ketosis (if having a white tongue and breath like a camels armpit are any indication), But blood levels are not falling much - hovering just above normal.

@Steve50

What you've described is almost a mirror image of what I've felt too. My body got used to me starving it and my FBG numbers were coming in at just north of non-diabetic = (good control 100-125mg/dl.) I feel that it must take 2 full days to exhaust the glycogen and its on day three that fasting starts going to work on the pancreas. I'm down to 194lbs today, but I felt weak this morning and had to eat. I'm plenty motivated about amputations, I have a friend who's had both legs chopped off. Tonight I attended my daughters volleyball game and as soon as it was over I got my bicycle out the back of our truck and put in a quick 16-17miles with a stop for a Poke Tuna dinner about 5 miles from the end of my ride.

I'll start all over again but on Friday I'm a chef at a pot luck dinner and I'm bringing Swedish meatballs. So it maybe Saturday before I get back to it again..

LBB

 

[Steve50]

Day 4

I got over the hump. I'm beyond hunger now and am riding the crest of the wave of achievement. My mind is particularly sharp - and energy levels high - so I must be drawing fuel from somewhere! Blood is now sitting nicely inside normal range and weight is down an incredible 3.6kg. Still have a tongue like a buttered bap - and am emitting foul odours - but enough about that. I have been mostly sedentary because I am working on a major report at the moment - but I will be active tomorrow teaching so I'll see if that makes any difference to the hunger.

So - to take stock, the main point of this experiment is to see if fasting can ease my hand pain. And on that front - no change. Maybe it's too early. I recognise that it takes 3 months for the blood to be 'renewed'. So that will be my time frame for changes in that respect.

My thinking is - I have come this far - and got to the stage where my pancreas is beginning to show benefit. So the longer I can stay in this state the better. I have resolve, some knowledge of what is going on - and you guys to keep me going till Monday (not to mention the complete lack of company to distract me as no-one with any sense of smell is willing to occupy the same space as me at the moment!)

 

[bulkbiker]

Keep it up ...sounds like you are over the worst and have only benefits to gain in the next few days.

 

[Steve50]

Thanks BB