Reversing Type 2 diabetes

[KevinPotts]

Everything follows the money in the end.

Sadly that's so true as evidenced by the kick back in the NOF & PHC...during the past few weeks. Big pharma, big food...ignorant politicos...compromised "in the pocket" scientist. It has always been so


Diagnosed 13/4/16: T2, no meds, HbA1c 53, FBG 12.6, Trigs 3.6, HDL .75, LDL 4.0, BP 169/95, 13st 8lbs, waist 34" (2012 - 17st 7lbs, w 42").

2/6/16: FBG AV 4.6, Trigs 1.5, HDL 2.0, LDL 3.0, BP 120/72, 11st 11lbs, waist 30" (2012 - 17st 7lbs, w 42").

Regime: 20g LCHF, run 1 mile daily, weekly fasting.


4/6/16: Best BP 112/64....yeah!!

 

[SueMG]

Thank you everyone for replying! I am not related to the fine Dr M G, who is he? I have read the China Study more than once! Denise Minger has changed her tune somewhat since she wrote the Critique of it. I consider the China Study to be a very good book and Colin Campbell to be an open and honest man. I have heard him speak in person.

I am 62 and have had a whole food plant based diet for nearly 6 years. It has been the best thing I have every done for my health. My BMI is 18.5, blood pressure 103/64, cholesterol 4. I have an under active thyroid.

By whole food plant based I mean. Nothing from an animal, no processed food, no added fat/oils, no added sugar, plenty of complex carbs (this is where the bulk of your calories will come from), so brown rice, wholemeal bread, wholemeal pasta, sweet potatoes, normal potatoes, millet. You can eat as much as you want to fill you up (I am thin but I eat a lot, believe me). This way of eating is not about reducing calories or starving yourself. When I began I did not think I would lose weight, I was eating so much, but I did.

It would be interesting to see how people fared on LCHF long term. If you eat like this how long have you been doing it? I know people who have been eating WFPB for many years who are in fine health and look likely to continue so. Many have reversed serious diseases lots of info on the www.drmcdougall.com site and forum.

I wish you all well, I just wanted to give some information about Whole Food plant based, because I am sure there are many people who would find it beneficial.

All the experts who espouse the 'Atkins' type diet look plump to me and all the Drs who espouse the Whole Food Plant based are very slim (Drs John McDougall, Craig McDougall, Caldwell Essylsteyn, T Colin Campbell, Tom Campbell, Neal Barnard, Joel Kahn, Baxter Montgomery, Michael Klaper there are lots more).

Best wishes, Sue

 

[hankjam]

Hi Everyone


Dr Michael Gregor was in London this April and gave a talk to the college of Naturopathic medicine. He discusses diabetes around 40 minutes, but the whole talk is very interesting

Sue

Dr M G

 

[SueMG]

I tried to access the second link but seem to be locked out of the US Microsoft login process. The video link I found very difficult to follow - the slides behind the presenter were impossible to follow and were very distracting. Do you have access to the slide data without the presenter? There seems to be very little cross reference to any scientific sources to back up what the presenter was saying. I gave up before the 40 mins was up, so did not see what the presenter had to say about diabetes.


If you pull the button along the bottom of the video you should be able to get it to 40 mins easily, no need to watch the whole thing if you don't want to. As for as the other links go, just put in the www. follows by the site into your browser.

Sue

 

[hankjam]

Thank you everyone for replying! I am not related to the fine Dr M G, who is he? I have read the China Study more than once! Denise Minger has changed her tune somewhat since she wrote the Critique of it. I consider the China Study to be a very good book and Colin Campbell to be an open and honest man. I have heard him speak in person.

I am 62 and have had a whole food plant based diet for nearly 6 years. It has been the best thing I have every done for my health. My BMI is 18.5, blood pressure 103/64, cholesterol 4. I have an under active thyroid.

By whole food plant based I mean. Nothing from an animal, no processed food, no added fat/oils, no added sugar, plenty of complex carbs (this is where the bulk of your calories will come from), so brown rice, wholemeal bread, wholemeal pasta, sweet potatoes, normal potatoes, millet. You can eat as much as you want to fill you up (I am thin but I eat a lot, believe me). This way of eating is not about reducing calories or starving yourself. When I began I did not think I would lose weight, I was eating so much, but I did.

It would be interesting to see how people fared on LCHF long term. If you eat like this how long have you been doing it? I know people who have been eating WFPB for many years who are in fine health and look likely to continue so. Many have reversed serious diseases lots of info on the www.drmcdougall.com site and forum.

I wish you all well, I just wanted to give some information about Whole Food plant based, because I am sure there are many people who would find it beneficial.

All the experts who espouse the 'Atkins' type diet look plump to me and all the Drs who espouse the Whole Food Plant based are very slim (Drs John McDougall, Craig McDougall, Caldwell Essylsteyn, T Colin Campbell, Tom Campbell, Neal Barnard, Joel Kahn, Baxter Montgomery, Michael Klaper there are lots more).

Best wishes, Sue

plump/very slim.... in the eye of the beholder. Not too crazy about very slim myself.
BMI has issues, 18.5 could be anything without a height to go with it.
I started LCHF 30 months ago, lost a load of weight, brought my BP and BG under control. I currently eat like a horse, trough by trough and still struggle to keep to my weight.
It works for me.
I'm not evangelical about it though.
Each to their own.

 

[SunnyExpat]

plump/very slim.... in the eye of the beholder. Not too crazy about very slim myself.
BMI has issues, 18.5 could be anything without a height to go with it.
I started LCHF 30 months ago, lost a load of weight, brought my BP and BG under control. I currently eat like a horse, trough by trough and still struggle to keep to my weight.
It works for me.
I'm not evangelical about it though.
Each to their own.

I thought BMI was weight over height squared?

 

[hankjam]

I thought BMI was weight over height squared?

Agree, just looked up the table and the ranges, yellow and all are the BMI number and height has nothing to do with... brain fail here.

 

[zand]

@SueMG What do you have that contains fat? Nuts and seeds? I tried a veg only diet for just 7 weeks. I had to stop there because of severe pains due to not having enough fat. I prefer LCHF over HCLF for that reason. Carbs are not necessary for us to stay healthy, fats are so IMO HCLF is more difficult because of the need to get the balance right.

 

[Welshman1952]

Slightly off-topic here but can someone please explain the difference between veganism and WFPB? Is there a difference or is this yet another acronym to make things sound more scientific?

Veganism has arguably been around since 600BC and it's known health benefits have been shown for many, many years. However, in all that time it has never professed to be a cure-all for illnesses and disease. It has argued that the avoidance of meat, dairy and animal products is both ethically justified and nutritionally sound.

If WFPB is the same as veganism can we get away from pointless acronyms that are little more than "dietspeak" and confuse those seeking help.

And, if it is the same then I find it interesting that no recognised vegan organisations have latched onto the notion that the lifestyle can "cure" diabetes. Is it because the science proposing such a notion is flawed?

 

[Avocado Sevenfold]

Slightly off-topic here but can someone please explain the difference between veganism and WFPB? Is there a difference or is this yet another acronym to make things sound more scientific?

Veganism has arguably been around since 600BC and it's known health benefits have been shown for many, many years. However, in all that time it has never professed to be a cure-all for illnesses and disease. It has argued that the avoidance of meat, dairy and animal products is both ethically justified and nutritionally sound.

If WFPB is the same as veganism can we get away from pointless acronyms that are little more than "dietspeak" and confuse those seeking help.

And, if it is the same then I find it interesting that no recognised vegan organisations have latched onto the notion that the lifestyle can "cure" diabetes. Is it because the science proposing such a notion is flawed?

WFPB is a way of eating that gives ethical veganism a bad name in the low carb diabetes community. Hope that helps

 

[Avocado Sevenfold]

"Hi Coeliac Forum! I eat toast and Weetabix every day for breakfast and it has never done me any harm. I don't actually have coeliac disease but...."

 

[SunnyExpat]

Slightly off-topic here but can someone please explain the difference between veganism and WFPB? Is there a difference or is this yet another acronym to make things sound more scientific?

Veganism has arguably been around since 600BC and it's known health benefits have been shown for many, many years. However, in all that time it has never professed to be a cure-all for illnesses and disease. It has argued that the avoidance of meat, dairy and animal products is both ethically justified and nutritionally sound.

If WFPB is the same as veganism can we get away from pointless acronyms that are little more than "dietspeak" and confuse those seeking help.

And, if it is the same then I find it interesting that no recognised vegan organisations have latched onto the notion that the lifestyle can "cure" diabetes. Is it because the science proposing such a notion is flawed?

I suspect it's like any diet.
Someone decides to give it a snappy name, then shorten the name to 'incrowd' initials, write a book, convince you it's the only healthy diet on the market, convince you it'll cure anything, convince you it's not a diet, and then sell you the next book.
And even better, get you to sell the idea onto a friend for them.

 

[Oldvatr]

Hi @SueMG. in your list you posted, (brown rice, wholemeal bread, wholemeal pasta, sweet potatoes, normal potatoes, millet.) I have tried ll of these (apart from millet, but have used buckwheat and quinoa, and couscous instead) and every single one of these foods will raise my bgl by at least 3 mmol/L (as I have noted in my daily log) on a Post Pandial test. The only one I seem to tolerate is Sweet potato provided I limit myself to 1 medium max. I know it is the ingredients you list directly causing my bgl peak because I always repeat failing meals with one ingredient removed to identify which ingredient causes the spike. In all those cases it was rhe complex carbs that did it. I now use an LC diet, and i am close to remission as a result.

As an aside, how do you make sure you get sufficient Vit B and Calcium and folate/ iron if you are not using dairy or animal based products? This is a known weakness of strict vegan style diets.

I did ask if anyone had tried and succeeded with this type of diet, and so far the silence is deafening. It is early days yet, but I am beginning to think that if I asked how many reading this thread were on an LC diet, then there would be significant response. I am not convinced that your recommendations are really suitable for diabetics, given that we do seem to be directly affected by carb intake. It is not just a weight loss / weight gain issue for us.

There used to be a fad diet called 'The Raw Energy Diet' that was created by Leslie Kenton, and it had a huge following in its heyday. It put forward much the same principles as the one you suggest, but everything had to be uncooked. I have not seen any recent activity for it, and both of her bestseller books have been out of print for many years. That diet was put forward as a 'cure everything' diet. At least with the Banting Diet we know it was used effectively for treating certain neurological conditions, and currently it is helping me and many other diabetics achieve a better prognosis. Thats good enough for me.

 

[Avocado Sevenfold]

I have just looked at the suggested McD forum. Many seem happy to drizzle honey on their cereals. Not a thing you see on vegan forums. Or T2 diabetes ones come to think of it. Just an observation.

 

[Alexia94]

plump/very slim.... in the eye of the beholder. Not too crazy about very slim myself.
BMI has issues, 18.5 could be anything without a height to go with it.
I started LCHF 30 months ago, lost a load of weight, brought my BP and BG under control. I currently eat like a horse, trough by trough and still struggle to keep to my weight.
It works for me.
I'm not evangelical about it though.
Each to their own.

Hi , I am struggling to lose weight myself with a HB1AC of 6.2.
What would be the best way to go about it despite working out pretty much everyday!

 

[Oldvatr]

Slightly off-topic here but can someone please explain the difference between veganism and WFPB? Is there a difference or is this yet another acronym to make things sound more scientific?

Veganism has arguably been around since 600BC and it's known health benefits have been shown for many, many years. However, in all that time it has never professed to be a cure-all for illnesses and disease. It has argued that the avoidance of meat, dairy and animal products is both ethically justified and nutritionally sound.

If WFPB is the same as veganism can we get away from pointless acronyms that are little more than "dietspeak" and confuse those seeking help.

And, if it is the same then I find it interesting that no recognised vegan organisations have latched onto the notion that the lifestyle can "cure" diabetes. Is it because the science proposing such a notion is flawed?

A whole foods plant based (WFPB) diet is based on whole or minimally processed whole grains, legumes, vegetables and fruits. It excludes animal-based foods, including fish and dairy, and also highly processed foods such as oils (that means no olive oil or coconut oil)

In the inerest of fairness, i include a study done on WFPB diet. Note that there appears to be only a single test subject being studied, but the conclusions are drawn from outside of the study.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3662288/

 

[SueMG]

Lots of people who are plant based do not consider themselves vegan, they wear leather etc. Many plant based doctors are not vegan. But it is easier to describe it as vegan, because people understand that. But many people who are vegan can have a high fat junk food diet. That is why I describe it as Whole Food Plant Based. I did not start off as an ethical vegan, but I am now. I am not selling anything. You can get all the information for free on the Dr McDougall website, just click on the free program links. Eating this way is very, cheap!


I get my essential omega 3 fat from a dessert spoonful of ground linseed or walnuts which I put on my porridge. I do eat some nuts but not many as this would increase my fat intake, and I try to keep that to 10 – 12% of energy intake, carbs would be around 80% of my energy consumption. Also so grains like oats and wheat contain about 10% fat. I get my calcium from dark green leafy veg, just like cows! I get my folate and iron from the same place.


This may be of interest https://www.facebook.com/notes/national-health-association/do-you-recommend-that-diabetics-avoid-white-potatoes/10151143052782614



The first thing I noticed when I changed my diet was that my energy increased. Try putting your foods in the Chronometer, a nutritional data base and see what you get.

https://cronometer.com/


I take a B12 tablet once a week and get my Vit D from sunshine in summer, occasionally take a Vit D tablet in winter and use a UVB lamp.


When you have very little carbs in your diet your body has to work harder to produce energy from fat and protein. The body’s first natural recourse for energy is carbs, it likes to store fat and use protein for growth and repair. I would say that is the bodies default position.


By eating low carb, high fat, you are making all your body processes work harder. I am interested how well the body can sustain all the hard work as we age. How I eat puts a low load on my body.


Sue

 

[Avocado Sevenfold]

@SueMG You do not have diabetes

 

[Indy51]

@SueMG You do not have diabetes

Presactly! The insulin/glucose response of metabolically damaged people cannot possibly be compared to metabolically healthy people. It's a pointless exercise.

 

[SunnyExpat]

So you believe diabetes can't be reversed?