Unfortunately Dr Barnard is still able to have ample input into guidelines. I have tried to find better results from him, but haven't been able to....Hi @muckifunkie,
This graphic might be helpful. It compares the result of the vegan intervention (in yellow) with the results from the Virta Health ketogenic study (in green). Found the graphic on the Tim Noakes twitter page.
I have got that book and you are right! What's left out in terms of dairy is replaced with large quantities of dates and other high GI items in the baking section. I think it is easier to eat LCHF and agree that some have a very low tolerance of any carbs!
I too had been almost vegan, low meat, fish , only horrible low fa cheese, High whole grains for over 10years before my 3x bypass and the T2D diagnosis.
I have heard that there have been good results (back in the 1950s) from an extreme low fat, low protein, high carb diet,. But I'm unsure of the validity of the data, however what isn't in doubt is how hard it was to stick to the diet which was less than 5% fat ( meaning most veg were excluded as too high in fat. The Dr behind it was accused of whipping participants - though he claimed in his defence that they asked to be whipped in order to motivate them to stick to the diet. Rice, fruit and Fruit juice. Of course the diet was deficient and supplements had to be taken
I still don't understand how such extremely high carb could have worked for T2D. Certainly any modern T2D using a meter would have quickly bailed out after just a few days of extremely high BG spikes.
All in all, their lifestyles possibly had a better chance of coping with the higher carb elements to the diet.
Ian - I don't know of the study you are referring to, so will make a very general post to say that life was very different in the 50s. Fewer ordinary families had cars. Manual labour work was much more common for both genders, and for the married women, who more often than not would stay at home with the children, she would would spend far more time on domestic labour - no Dyson hoovers, or automatic washer driers, and of course no Chelsea tractors for dropping the little ones to school.
All in all, their lifestyles possibly had a better chance of coping with the higher carb elements to the diet.
Turn that on its head of course and we are basically saying that higher levels of physical activity are a massive factor.
I was born in the fifties. I do remember those days. They were as you described and people were more active then. Housework (less appliances) , manual labour. Walking and cycling to work as opposed to the Chelse Tractor to drop the kids off to school. All sounds like a higher level of activity to me but you could include that in a change of lifestyle. You are correct.That isn't what I am saying at all. What I am saying is the 50s were different days in more than just diet.
Nice balanced post. Thanks.I have my doubts, though I do believe the propaganda that vegans are much less likely to go down the T2 path in the first place. The reason for the lower incidence of T2 in vegans isn't clear, though it may just be that because they are vegan they have to avoid most of the processed food in the supermarkets, which tend to be full of excess carbs (and other rubbish). Is it just the excess sugar in modern processed food that messes us up?
They don't all proselytize, by the way, my son moved from vegetarian to vegan a couple of years ago and has never pushed his eating habits on others.
The trouble is that it's really really hard to work out the benefits and disadvantages of different dietary choices (other than macdonalds is bad). It's very hard to do double blind trials on people eating low carb or vegan, and though long term studies of different populations are available, it's incredibly easy for researchers to see what they want to see rather than look at the evidence objectively. Yes, it seems likely that going low carb is an effective way to control the metabolic disorder known as T2 diabetes. I certainly recommend it to any new T2s that I meet.
But I feel uncomfortable when people start to regard dietary choices with a religious fervour, whether it's veganism or HFLC or the NHS eatwell plate. There can be good reasons for doing any of them. And I don't think that there is one ideal diet that suits everyone, though as said before, I'm pretty sure that macdonalds is bad...
Surely everyone can survive on a vegetarian diet, whether that's longer or in better health than on any other diet is the question.People who can survive on a vegetarian diet might be genetically adapted to do so - we are, after all a fairly diverse lot, despite several 'pinch points' in our evolution where the entire Human race was represented by a few thousand, or even a few hundred individuals.
I too had been almost vegan, low meat, fish , only horrible low fa cheese, High whole grains for over 10years before my 3x bypass and the T2D diagnosis.
I have heard that there have been good results (back in the 1950s) from an extreme low fat, low protein, high carb diet,. But I'm unsure of the validity of the data, however what isn't in doubt is how hard it was to stick to the diet which was less than 5% fat ( meaning most veg were excluded as too high in fat. The Dr behind it was accused of whipping participants - though he claimed in his defence that they asked to be whipped in order to motivate them to stick to the diet. Rice, fruit and Fruit juice. Of course the diet was deficient and supplements had to be taken
I still don't understand how such extremely high carb could have worked for T2D. Certainly any modern T2D using a meter would have quickly bailed out after just a few days of extremely high BG spikes.
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