Running & liver dumps - ways to avoid?

[Sunshine_Kisses]

Hello - so, just been for a run - 1st one in a couple of weeks as was lowering carbs and calories further and didn't have the energy to run during the transition - anyway, have upped calories again so have the energy, though carbs slightly lower than before (were about 50, now about 30).

Pre-run blood sugars were 6, post run they are now 10.8... I know this is cos of my liver having a fit and chucking out glucose but:
A) is this as bad as a sugar high from eating something that causes a spike?
B) is there a way to stop it happening next time?

Prior to today, my blood sugars would normally come down a couple of points post run - so was a little disappointing to go to the effort of going on a run only for them to be worse afterwards! ;-)

 

[Hooked]

Re: Running & liver dumps - ways to avoid?

I'm of no help in answering your questions; but am fascinated by the subject. I used to run (hoping to get back into it soon again). I found running 3-5 miles my sugars would have been grand afterwards. On runs above this I'd end up with high glucose levels afterwards and found it incredibly frustrating. I recently asked a diabetic nurse about it and she didn't mention about liver dumps and just said the highs were because there wasn't enough insulin in my system; even though my sugar levels would have been (just on the slightly higher end of) normal on starting my run. I found this confusing, as more insulin would equal lower sugar levels which surely would have ran the risk of hypos during my run.

Knee injures and other health issues knocked me off running for awhile anyway, but I'm hoping to get started back in the next few weeks using the couch to 5k again. So I'm interested to hear experiences others have had with this.

 

[Dusty2000]

This happens to me too. I cycle to work and it takes about 40 minutes. I would describe it as moderately exerting but not strenuous and my blood sugar goes up. So my pre breakfast level is always higher than it would be if I didn't cycle. I eat my breakfast at work. I always test before I leave in case it's too low and would then eat a small piece of cereal bar if necessary but as things stand my blood sugar rises. Not as much as the 4 points or so stated here but certainly a little. But then I often go quite low after breakfast and before lunch. It's all so complicated!

Sent from the Diabetes Forum App

 

[Sunshine_Kisses]

Thanks for the replies... Hooked, I'm surprised you DN didn't tell you it's your liver releasing glucose cos there's not enough glucose in your system...? Though having said that, I'm not *that* surprised! ;-)

Do either/both of you low carb?

 

[Hooked]

Re: Running & liver dumps - ways to avoid?

Thanks for the replies... Hooked, I'm surprised you DN didn't tell you it's your liver releasing glucose cos there's not enough glucose in your system...? Though having said that, I'm not *that* surprised! ;-)

Do either/both of you low carb?

But if my sugars are around the 9 mmol mark starting out and I don't experience hypo whilst out? She put it down to not enough insulin in my system. If I was to take more, I'd end up hypo whilst exercising which is more risky. When I get back into the running I'll def talk it over with the diabetic team again to get things clear. :crazy:

I don't low carb. I eat between 100g to 150g a day, usually round the 120/130g mark. Not intentionally, just what I naturally eat. Not sure if that's around the norm, high or lower than average. I couldn't manage those low carb diets with only about 30g a day. And I'd worry about my poor brain not getting enough energy.... it needs all the help it can get. :lol:

 

[Sunshine_Kisses]

I'm pretty sure you'd only possibly experience a hypo if you were insulin dependent (or close to). So long as your body is producing some of its own insulin, what happens is this:

- Your blood sugar is 9 when you start your run.
- At some underermined point (lets say 2 miles for the sake of argument) you've used enough of that 9mmol for your body to get nervous about it. Again, lets say for the sake of argument you're now at 5mmol's
- your body then starts looking for other sources of glucose, but it can't find any reserves in your system, so it sends a message to the liver to produce some for you.
- the liver has a lil panic as it doesn't know how much longer you're going to run for so it just chucks out a blanket amount of glucose, hoping that will cover it.
- more often than not, it's over compensated, thus you end up with a higher blood glucose reading after your run/whatever exercise you're doing.

It's a bit overly simplistic, but hopefully makes sense?

I know that being low carb (as I am) there's an even greater chance of this happening as I've very little circulating glucose that my body could convert. What I don't know (but hoping someone on here will ) is whether my body will adapt to low carb and running, and start using fat (or something else?!) as a fuel instead, and whether I can help my body do that?

I know 'normal' people carb load before a run to stop the liver chucking out glucose (as it can actually make you feel very nauseous) but I don't know what non-carby's are meant to do ;-)

 

[Hooked]

Re: Running & liver dumps - ways to avoid?

What you are saying makes sense, but I'm T1, so on insulin. :wink:

I'm interested to hear what answers you get to your questions though. I am fascinated by the subject.

8)

 

[Sunshine_Kisses]

I still think the same process happens... It's just that, yes, as you say - you have to be careful of hypos... But being insulin dependent shouldn't stop your liver having the same 'panic' if it perceives you dropping low, and therefore it dumping a bunch of glucose into your system, as that's got nothing to do with insulin/your pancreas... So I still think that's why you go high during longer runs etc... And I'm interested if anyone can answer my q's too

 

[smidge]

Re: Running & liver dumps - ways to avoid?

Hey Sunshine!

Hello - so, just been for a run - 1st one in a couple of weeks as was lowering carbs and calories further and didn't have the energy to run during the transition - anyway, have upped calories again so have the energy, though carbs slightly lower than before (were about 50, now about 30).

Pre-run blood sugars were 6, post run they are now 10.8... I know this is cos of my liver having a fit and chucking out glucose but:
A) is this as bad as a sugar high from eating something that causes a spike?
B) is there a way to stop it happening next time?

Prior to today, my blood sugars would normally come down a couple of points post run - so was a little disappointing to go to the effort of going on a run only for them to be worse afterwards! ;-)

Well, I don't run but I do use the cross-trainer and I do swim (quite badly so using lots of energy as I spplash around trying not to drown :lol: ) So, I'll try to answer your questions, but I'm certain there will be other people who know better than me.

A) Yes. High BGs is bad no matter what caused them. However, you'll probably find they won't stay high very long and they will be generally lower for the next day or so. That's what i find after exercise anyway, so i have to reduce my bolus and basal the following day - although often I leave the basal the same but have a biscuit mid morning.

B) Possibly. Before swimming, I test my BG and if I'm in the 5s or below I have a jelly baby (which will take me up to 7-8ish. That means that I am unlikely to drop too low, hypo and liver dump. I think if you take just a small amount of carb before exercise you might find your BG doesn't shoot up. It works for me anyway, but I'd also be interested to hear any more knowledgeable views on it.

Smidge

 

[Sunshine_Kisses]

Hey Smidge, very interesting, thank you! And you made me laugh with visions of you splashing around in the pool :-D
If you saw me 'running', you'd laugh too! ;-)

And thanks for addressing my q's... The high dropped back to a 6 within the hour, so didn't stay long at all... Obvs I don't yet know what it will do tomoz, but that was my experience too when running a few weeks back - the the next day all my readings were a point or two lower...

As for my 'b' question and you saying to have low carbs, that's what I've read on running forums too; to 'carb load' before a run... But I'm trying to stay in ketosis as its what keeps my blood sugars most stable, so I'm worried if I start eating carbs pre run I'll knock myself back out of ketosis... I'm sure I read something somewhere that your body will stop looking for glucose as a fuel source and starting using fat for fuel instead - so maybe if I just continue my body will get used to it/switch over fuels...? Anyone else know...?