Saturated fat - the evidence

[Kentoldlady1]

I didnt mean that, sorry!! I was coming at it from the opposite point of view. That some people have been avoiding fat because we have been told its bad for us. Surely the fact that this is a mistake is worth debating?

Of course, if you dont like it, dont eat it. But if you do like it then there is no reason any longer to not eat it. I like some fat. I can eat cheese as an Olympic sport. But not that fond of cream or fatty meat. But I am glad that the debate has happened and I hope will continue to happen. How else will we learn anything new?

 

[Pinkorchid]

I promote sat.fat not because I believe it's not bad for us. I believe it's actually good for us.

Exactly because you believe it is good for us but if you did not like it would you still eat it. That is my point some of us don't eat a lot of saturated fat not because we think it is bad we simply do not like it is that so strange

 

[bulkbiker]

Not about being bright or about if fat is good or bad for us I just do not like the taste of red meat and I do not eat much butter or cream I find them to rich ..Why do people think if someone does not eat loads of meat and lot of butter and cream it is because they were told not to when it is simply because we don't like it

No one is trying to force you to eat things you don't want but there is a lot of misinformation about dietary fats which some of us like to push back against and that's why we keep going on about it.

 

[librarising]

Exactly because you believe it is good for us but if you did not like it would you still eat it. That is my point some of us don't eat a lot of saturated fat not because we think it is bad we simply do not like it is that so strange

I missed out that point whilst thinking I'd made it
"So if we can live in a psychological space where we might accept sat.fat/avocados/tomatoes/(disliked food of your own choosing) is good for us but that we personally dislike it, then we can be at peace with the world."
I should have said 'dislike it and refrain from it'.
My mistake.
Geoff

 

[Alexandra100]

For years and years I tried to convert my kamikaze full-sat-fat-dairy-eating friends to the healthy low-fat path I was following. I claimed that low-sat-fat was not just healthier but nicer. So embarrassing now to have to admit, as I savour my coffee with double cream, that full-fat is not only nicer but probably healthier too. However, "probably" is as far as I'm going. No more dietary certainties for me.

 

[Alison Campbell]

@Pinkorchid I could complain about the numerous threads and receipes on/with nuts and advocados. This is a diabetic forum of sharing and support. Don't you think nutrition is an important part of that?

I understand that personal taste, other health problems and in my case moderate allergic reactions have to be considered when people decide what they eat.

I'm never going to open a post with the title 'nut butters' due to my allergies and if a thread goes that way, I skip over reading that bit as I have no interest. Many food groups/types fall in and out of favour all the time with people, the medical profession and scientists.

This is just information sharing and thankfully no pressure to eat things you don't like.

 

[Guzzler]

Only today I saw a sign in the window of a chippy stating 'We Only Use Pure Vegetable Oil To Fry Our Chips'.

My first thought was 'Do they know what an oxymoron that is?' It is going to be an uphill struggle to convince people of the effects of industrially manufactured sludge but when that happens there is going to be a lot of angry people about.

 

[Simon84]

@Pinkorchid Your opinion on red meats and sat fats is cool with me for one as it means more of them for me-Cheers Annie!

 

[Troubled1]

I came across this and it made me chuckle out loud.

If inappropriate the mods should delete it.

 

[Guzzler]

I came across this and it made me chuckle out loud.

If inappropriate the mods should delete it.

"Do I sound brain dead to you?" Haha!

 

[Guzzler]

My first viewing of a presentation by Dr. Ludwig (a colleague of Dr. Lustig) on CICO, Sat Fat and PFT.
The Q&A at the end is very interesting.

Please be aware:
I must warn members that as the Doctor cites results in rat studies he shows a slide of the cadavers of two rats.

Presentation is about 40 mins and not overly technical.

 

[Jo_the_boat]

On the other hand, the French do eat a lot of white bread. It is going to be fascinating over the next few years (how many - any bets?) watching how the NHS, Heart UK etc handle the climb-down over their dietary advice. And will diabetics who have dutifully eaten the infamous "plate" sue the NHS for the damage it has done to their health?

Now I may be talking a load of baguettes here, but....
French baguettes, particularly those made by Boulanger Aritsan, (usually small, independent bakers) do not keep fresh and soft for more than a few hours. What this may indicate is that they don't use ultra-refined flour or 'improvers' to make their bread.
Many years ago, around the time the Chorleywood bread-making process was introduced in the early 1960s, mass production of bread really got going. Around that time someone said (I paraphrase) , 'the aim is to make bread out of water'. This meant using more highly refined flour and improvers that enable more water to be retained in the bread. If you squash a slice of mass-made, sliced white bread you can almost see the water squeeze out.
Thus, locally made French baguettes may not be as processed as some of the supermarket stuff.
....But I may be talking out of my loaf!

 

[Guzzler]

Now I may be talking a load of baguettes here, but....
French baguettes, particularly those made by Boulanger Aritsan, (usually small, independent bakers) do not keep fresh and soft for more than a few hours. What this may indicate is that they don't use ultra-refined flour or 'improvers' to make their bread.
Many years ago, around the time the Chorleywood bread-making process was introduced in the early 1960s, mass production of bread really got going. Around that time someone said (I paraphrase) , 'the aim is to make bread out of water'. This meant using more highly refined flour and improvers that enable more water to be retained in the bread. If you squash a slice of mass-made, sliced white bread you can almost see the water squeeze out.
Thus, locally made French baguettes may not be as processed as some of the supermarket stuff.
....But I may be talking out of my loaf!

You are quite right. I used to bake (can't any more) because I discovered that your basic white loaf has roughly 14 ingredients but if you bake at home even using highly processed flour, there are just 4 ingredients which are flour, water, yeast and salt. That speaks volumes.

 

[Pinkorchid]

Now I may be talking a load of baguettes here, but....
French baguettes, particularly those made by Boulanger Aritsan, (usually small, independent bakers) do not keep fresh and soft for more than a few hours. What this may indicate is that they don't use ultra-refined flour or 'improvers' to make their bread.
Many years ago, around the time the Chorleywood bread-making process was introduced in the early 1960s, mass production of bread really got going. Around that time someone said (I paraphrase) , 'the aim is to make bread out of water'. This meant using more highly refined flour and improvers that enable more water to be retained in the bread. If you squash a slice of mass-made, sliced white bread you can almost see the water squeeze out.
Thus, locally made French baguettes may not be as processed as some of the supermarket stuff.
....But I may be talking out of my loaf!

Yes we know bread is important to the French and it is delicious so I wonder if those who are diabetic still eat it as is or have they come up with low carb versions of the bread they love

 

[Biggles2]

My first viewing of a presentation by Dr. Ludwig (a colleague of Dr. Lustig) on CICO, Sat Fat and PFT.
The Q&A at the end is very interesting.

OMG, whenever @Guzzler posts a video link I know its time to brew a nice cup of coffee with a good dollop of cream and take some uninterrupted time to watch and learn! This video did not disappoint! Absolutely brilliant @Guzzler! Thank you so much for posting!

 

[Daibell]

A brilliant video. It should be mandatory viewing for everyone in the NHS, BHF, DUK etc

 

[Alexandra100]

Yes we know bread is important to the French and it is delicious so I wonder if those who are diabetic still eat it as is or have they come up with low carb versions of the bread they love

Sadly, the standard guidance for French diabetics is a version of our "plate". Put this together with the fact that diet in France is still very traditional, and that the white baguette is considered the pinnacle of healthy eating, a kind of national treasure, "incontournable" at every meal, especially with jam for breakfast, and I fear they are headed straight "dans le mur". After I told a French friend about my struggles to eat a low carb diet, he announced that I was making a fuss about nothing. All I had to do was eat normally, and it would take a long time for any little difficulties to develop. When they did, it would just be a matter of taking a few pills, some little injections - no problem.

 

[Pinkorchid]

Sadly, the standard guidance for French diabetics is a version of our "plate". Put this together with the fact that diet in France is still very traditional, and that the white baguette is considered the pinnacle of healthy eating, a kind of national treasure, "incontournable" at every meal, especially with jam for breakfast, and I fear they are headed straight "dans le mur". After I told a French friend about my struggles to eat a low carb diet, he announced that I was making a fuss about nothing. All I had to do was eat normally, and it would take a long time for any little difficulties to develop. When they did, it would just be a matter of taking a few pills, some little injections - no problem.

That is exactly how a lot of people do think. My own T2 brother-in-law who lives in Sweden says as long as you take Metformin you can eat what you like he said that's what Metformin is for. It was pointless telling him about low carb for diabetics he just thought that was crazy

 

[Alexandra100]

That is exactly how a lot of people do think. My own T2 brother-in-law who lives in Sweden says as long as you take Metformin you can eat what you like he said that's what Metformin is for. It was pointless telling him about low carb for diabetics he just thought that was crazy

Yes, I think we are extremely lucky to have such a strong low carb movement here, and also films like the Panorama one which do make clear that diabetes is something to take seriously. In France people always seem to refer to "une petite diabète" - "a touch of diabetes", making it sound like nothing. Doubtless there are many people here who take that attitude, partly because so many of our health professionals minimise the gravity of diabetes while over-reacting to raised cholesterol. But anyone with an enquiring mind here must surely have encountered the great carbs/fat controversy, and anyone Googling diabetes will surely come across alternatives to "the plate". Incidentally, my French friend's German girlfriend is in the "petite diabète" camp but I'm not sure how to say that in German!

 

[Guzzler]

Yes, I think we are extremely lucky to have such a strong low carb movement here, and also films like the Panorama one which do make clear that diabetes is something to take seriously. In France people always seem to refer to "une petite diabète" - "a touch of diabetes", making it sound like nothing. Doubtless there are many people here who take that attitude, partly because so many of our health professionals minimise the gravity of diabetes while over-reacting to raised cholesterol. But anyone with an enquiring mind here must surely have encountered the great carbs/fat controversy, and anyone Googling diabetes will surely come across alternatives to "the plate". Incidentally, my French friend's German girlfriend is in the "petite diabète" camp but I'm not sure how to say that in German!

I beleive there was a huge push back against statins by the general public in France which some boffins said would mean that a rise in early mortality would be expected. There was no such rise, apparently.