something I read in this forum that explains a lot !!

[Brian_H]

In LOW CARB DIET - A NEWBIES GUIDE I found this ...
"Strictly speaking, we burn neither glucose nor fat for physical energy. Energy within our cells actually comes from a molecule called adenosine triphosphate, or ATP. When its molecular bonds are broken, energy is released in the mitochondria, the power plants of our cells. A glucose molecule will generate 36 ATP molecules. A 6 carbon fatty acid molecule will generate 48 ATP molecules"

That snippet is the holy grail to me, I was told many many years ago that muscles used glucose, and they couldn'y use glucose without the presence of insulin. So I have always wondered what the fats did. I think an explanation I was further given was that fats were converted to glucose before being used, in the liver or somewhere. I have asked many people in the medical profession over the years, at diabetic appointments, to explain how the muscles get the energy in a very low or no carb diet. I think the closest I got once was that muscles can use ketones - what

Anyway, I am so impressed with that snippet, indeed with the whole post. I will have to write it out a few thousand times for it all to sink in.

 

[Randy L]

Awesome information- that's why I love this site, it does not merely regurgitate old lies that Doctor's, Dietician's, and patients (especially Diabetics) have been told for so long.
It's not the Doctor's or Dietician's fault, it's what they were taught. My sister in law is a Registered Dietician and we would always argue about sugar and cholesterol.
For the very newest emerging info on the topic of how our bodies REALLY work- check out this book that I just started reading called "Grain Brain" by Dr. Perlmutter, he is a Neurologist and he has a Degree in Nutrition (I think I heard that he was one of only two in the US that has a degree in Nutrition).



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[Brian_H]

I'll have to add that book to my new increasing list

 

[Daibell]

I'm not an expert in this area, but the conversion of fat for energy when there aren't any carbs around is called Ketosis. Wikipedia has a detailed description of this. The process creates ketones which have the familiar smell

 

[Brian_H]

I'm not an expert in this area, but the conversion of fat for energy when there aren't any carbs around is called Ketosis. Wikipedia has a detailed description of this. The process creates ketones which have the familiar smell

can you provide a link to the wikipedia page

 

[modesty007]

Here's some more reading - http://www.dietdoctor.com/?s=ketosis&submit.x=8&submit.y=11

 

[paul-1976]

Here's some more reading - http://www.dietdoctor.com/?s=ketosis&submit.x=8&submit.y=11

The blog of Andreas Eenfeldt MD-well worth a read!

 

[Mud Island Dweller]

Ok more money spent just downloading the Grain brain the pre read looked excellent want to get Andy to read it ad well Many thanks
MID

 

[Brian_H]

Here's some more reading - http://www.dietdoctor.com/?s=ketosis&submit.x=8&submit.y=11

I'm going up an interesting learning curve on this stuff, I've been wondering about it all for 30 years now !!!!

Intersting warning in that article .....

A word of warning
If you have type 1 diabetes, you should not follow the above advice on optimal ketosis – it may be risky. If you have ketones in your blood at all, you must be sure that your blood sugar levels are normal. If they are, you’re in normal ketosis – just like the ketosis of healthy people who stick to a strict low carb diet.
High blood sugar levels coupled with high blood ketones, on the other hand, will mean that you have a pathologically low level of insulin – something non-diabetics do not suffer from. This can lead to ketoacidosis – a potentially life-threatening condition. If this happens, you’ll need to inject more insulin; if you’re at all unsure of what to do, contact a medical professional. Coveting really high blood ketones for weight control is not worth the risk for type 1 diabetics.



I guess that it's tricky to get the insulin right if Type 1 ........would a Type 1 have to raise basal, or add a small bolus, or both ????

 

[Daibell]

Hi. The Wikipedia link is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketosis

 

[xyzzy]

Lyle McDonald's "The Ketogenic Diet: A complete guide for the Dieter and Practitioner" is a good reference that explains how ketosis works and goes into the good and bad aspects of a Ketogenic regime.

You can read and download it here http://aaron.emascc.com/diet/ebooks/Lyle_McDonald_-_The_Ketogenic_Diet.pdf

 

[Yorksman]

Terms like glucose, sugar, fat are shorthand for many intermediate stages in the biochemical processes. The correct use of terms would make forums like this very difficult to read. Gluconeogenesis is a metabolic pathway that results in the generation of glucose from non-carbohydrate carbon substrates such as pyruvate, lactate, glycerol, glucogenic amino acids, and odd-chain fatty acids.

When the liver glycogen stores are depleted, ketogenesis starts and ketone bodies are produced by breaking down fatty acids. There is a nice diagram here which shows the various processes, sadly a little too large to embed in the post. https://www.sciencemag.org/content/330/6009/1344/F3.large.jpg

Biochemistry is a fascinating subject and your average biochemists and haematologists know far more than the doctors in the hospitals.

 

[Yorksman]

I'm going up an interesting learning curve on this stuff, I've been wondering about it all for 30 years now !!!!

If you are becoming interested, have a read of this article:
Nutrient Utilization in Humans: Metabolism Pathways

It starts by answering the basic question:

"Where does the energy that makes life possible come from? Humans obtain energy from three classes of fuel molecules: carbohydrates, lipids, and proteins."

 

[robert72]

I'm going up an interesting learning curve on this stuff, I've been wondering about it all for 30 years now !!!!

Intersting warning in that article .....

A word of warning
If you have type 1 diabetes, you should not follow the above advice on optimal ketosis – it may be risky. If you have ketones in your blood at all, you must be sure that your blood sugar levels are normal. If they are, you’re in normal ketosis – just like the ketosis of healthy people who stick to a strict low carb diet.
High blood sugar levels coupled with high blood ketones, on the other hand, will mean that you have a pathologically low level of insulin – something non-diabetics do not suffer from. This can lead to ketoacidosis – a potentially life-threatening condition. If this happens, you’ll need to inject more insulin; if you’re at all unsure of what to do, contact a medical professional. Coveting really high blood ketones for weight control is not worth the risk for type 1 diabetics.



I guess that it's tricky to get the insulin right if Type 1 ........would a Type 1 have to raise basal, or add a small bolus, or both ????

Brian, I still need a similar amount of basal on a ketogenic diet, but my bolus insulin is reduced. I need to bolus for protein as well as the small amount of carbs from dairy and vegetables. It's a bit of a black art

 

[Brian_H]

Hi. The Wikipedia link is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketosis

Thanks for the link, I did find that after you mentioned wikipedia, but I wasn't too sure

Lyle McDonald's "The Ketogenic Diet: A complete guide for the Dieter and Practitioner" is a good reference that explains how ketosis works and goes into the good and bad aspects of a Ketogenic regime.
You can read and download it here http://aaron.emascc.com/diet/ebooks/Lyle_McDonald_-_The_Ketogenic_Diet.pdf

I've downloaded that and skimmed through, found quite a few pages that are a good synopsis, I've also found somewhere on the internet where you can order the book from the author (cheaper than Amazon).

Brian, I still need a similar amount of basal on a ketogenic diet, but my bolus insulin is reduced. I need to bolus for protein as well as the small amount of carbs from dairy and vegetables. It's a bit of a black art

Thanks Robert, that is useful to know, it will help as I read more about all this stuff

If you are becoming interested, have a read of this article:
Nutrient Utilization in Humans: Metabolism Pathways
It starts by answering the basic question:
"Where does the energy that makes life possible come from? Humans obtain energy from three classes of fuel molecules: carbohydrates, lipids, and proteins."

Nice couple of jpg's and links, very informative



In the late 80's I bought a book called "Manual of Nutrition" by MAFF (Ministry of Agric Fisheries & Food) published by HMSO (HM Stationery Office)
That was incredibly useful at the time, I read through it many times.
But I've always wanted to know more, looks like I've come to the right place
Any more links or books extremely welcome

 

[Thommothebear]

My reading list just got a lot longer!


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[FatGenes999]

Judging from the presence of its well-known signs, I am almost certain that I am experiencing ketosis, currently.
Can't wait to see the weight loss.
It's been about three weeks, now, of being on the low-carb diet.

What's interesting is that I am almost totally free of eye-floaters and the larger grey ghostly globules that travel across my field of vision. I Wonder if it's a positive side-effect of the lower BG.

 

[FatGenes999]

Judging from the presence of its well-known signs, I am almost certain that I am experiencing ketosis, currently.
Can't wait to see the weight loss.
It's been about three weeks, now, of being on the low-carb diet.

What's interesting is that I am almost totally free of eye-floaters and the larger grey ghostly globules that travel across my field of vision. I Wonder if it's a positive side-effect of the lower BG.