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Starting Fasting

Discussion in 'Fasting' started by tk123, Jan 29, 2018.

  1. tk123

    tk123 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I just have a few questions that I havent been able to get answers on, or I've gotten conflicting ones!

    My awake times (due to work) are about 11/Noon to 3-4am, and this varies sometimes. What would be a good timeframe for IF?
    Am I able to drink peppermint tea with a good amount of cream (10/15%, not heavy/whipping) and maybe a spoon full of coconut oil (If I can afford it) throughout the day to curb hunger?

    I have absolutely no issues skipping breakfast, I almost always have. I end up usually just snacking and not eating solid meals.

    Yesterday I had cream in tea a few times, 50g almonds, two tiny fathead pizzas with marina and cheese (1/4th the entire dough) and some fathead 'cookies', about 4, with some creamcheese icing, which was maybe 1/8th of the dough?
    Im never really hungry enough for a full meal. Should I force myself to eat a meal? I feel Im not getting enough calories or fat on the days I eat.

    I work better with structure, so if someone could be like 'eat x time and x time' That'd help, but everything I find on IF is a bit confusing due to my sleep times. (I do find if I eat passed 1am, I am STARVING in the mornings) And both my husband and I are worried about 'starvation mode' and all that. Due to my mental health I would stop eating for days/weeks at a time, periodically, and the whole 'EAT 3 MEALS A DAY' was pounded in to me, so I feel.. ashamed? When fasting.

    If I want to do full days fasting, would it be okay to drink the tea with cream (and maybe coconut oil) and drink broth? (Can it just be boxed broth from the store? Is there any way to make it more flavourful?) Ive read both yes, and no. Is black tea okay if I cant have it with cream?

    Sorry for all the questions.
     
  2. Goonergal

    Goonergal Type 2 · Moderator
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    Hello @tk123

    I don’t think anyone else can tell you when to fast. You need to find a regime that works for you. There are no hard and fast rules and I think it’s important that whatever you do fits in with the rest of your life.

    Personally I find it much easier to skip breakfast and lunch and very hard to skip dinner, so I fast from dinner to dinner.

    I do have cream in tea during that period, but it tends to be only one cup, possibly two. There are different schools of thought around this, so it’s really your call.

    What are your reasons for fasting? They should inform the answers to your other questions - and I’d urge a bit of caution if you’ve previously had issues around eating and mental health.
     
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  3. tk123

    tk123 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I specifically want someone to give me a time range because I dont understand how they work. For an example, my husbands father only eats between 12pm and 8pm. Obviously this time doesnt work for me, because Im not even up then some days. Ive heard 'just move the time frame down' but I dont understand why the choice of hours, how many hours, should I just binge and eat whatever I want during them, should I just have my one/two big meals, snacks/no snacks? The stress from these questions is what brings failures to me. I need specific, exact answers or my anxiety goes completely out of wack, which is why in the initial post I said for someone to just tell me.

    Both my husband and I are worried about 'starvation mode'. Especially if we snack. Today I've only had tea, a tiny piece of Oka cheese, and a pepperette. Ive read things that claim its a very serious issue (and been told by doctors the same) but also read things that claim it's not real.

    Fasting will help curb snacking, for one, especially if I can only eat between X and X and need to fit in a good chunck of calories then, but also, I will feel okay outright not eating for a day when I'd normally just eat snacks through out the day.

    My point for fasting is lowering blood sugars (When I had stopped eating due to depression I felt AMAZING, I never had a lack of energy, but my skin conditions went away, as well as I saved money, so stress was lifted, I was capable of walking for hours, swimming, and no side effect that people claim happen when you stop eating) I dont much care for weight loss, even though I believe I have 30-40 lbs to lose to no longer be considered over weight, lowering my sugars is most important.

    My husband on the other hand is fasting for weight loss.

    Do you only ever eat dinner? Do you snack at all? Whats a typical meal look like for you, if you dont mind me asking. I have a hard time eating a lot of 'pro keto' foods.
     
  4. Goonergal

    Goonergal Type 2 · Moderator
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    I try to switch it up a bit. I eat one meal a day at least 2-3 times a week, sometimes more. Today I ate lunch and dinner but for the previous 9 days I ate only dinner. Today I was hungry (properly hungry, not just peckish) so I ate. I’m fasting for blood sugar control and weight loss, not as an endurance test so try to follow my body’s lead.

    My meals vary but in general my macros are roughly 75-80% fat, 5% carbs and the rest protein. I rarely snack - don’t feel the need, and when I do, I make the snack substantial and treat it as a meal. Daily calories vary between around 1,000 and 1,800.

    I have simple tastes so eat meat or fish based meals with veggies, although some meals I don’t have veggies. Tonight for example I had lamb kleftico with buttered cabbage and broccoli followed by homemade chocolate olive oil cake (using ground almonds and erythritol) with cream. Another staple meal is high meat content sausages with bacon and a burger, no veg.

    The thread ‘what have you eaten today’ in the low carb forum should give you some ideas.

    Can’t stress enough that you have to set your own goals and timings - neither I nor anyone else knows what is best for you but don’t over think it. Suck it and see, adapt as necessary.

    Hope you find a regime that works.
     
  5. tk123

    tk123 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I specifically need people to explain it to me, and provide times and whatnot because I literally do not understand any of it, as per my previous post. None of it makes any sense despite reading up on it for days. I am, to be blunt, extremely stupid, and I need very basic and simple explanations or for someone to provide me a specific time table. I wouldnt have asked if I was able to adjust the information I have and do so myself. I have a large problem with understanding information and having to adjust it to my own 'way'. (An example being I wont cook something if it's not an exact temp and time posted in the recipe, if it's guesswork like 350 to 400 degrees for 20 to 50 minutes, I cannot grasp it.)

    Which is why I am asking for help so I dont do something stupid that could actually mess everything up; Like only snacking throughout the day, or only consuming 400 cal a day, and so on.
     
  6. Mbaker

    Mbaker Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    Hi I am not an expert as I have been doing this seriously since Christmas. The simple one first, black tea is fine as is peppermint tea and a spoon of coconut oil (I saw Pete Evans do this on a youtube video, although he is Paleo it is low carb). Why not choose one of your times when both you and your husband are together mainly. I would think fully eating if possible is better than snacking, as you possibly want to reduce the amount of insulin being produced? - This is an assumption on my part. By fully eating I mean a protein like fish or meat, maybe a third to half of your plate being vegetables such as cabbage / greens, mushrooms, radish, broccoli, cauliflower or and possibly a small amount of carrots, with some good fat either with the meal such as some avocado, or after the meal some cheeses and or Greek full fat yogurt. These are just some ideas. If you are not sure, start with your Doctor to ask for an "Xpert" diabetes nutritionist (assumed you are UK).
     
  7. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Legend

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    Intermittent fasting the way I do it is eating only within a particular "window" of time. It really does not matter when that window is. In my case I fast for 17 hours other than a coffee with cream and a cup of tea with dash of milk. I eat 2 meals in the remaining 7 hours, the first one immediately after the 17 hours, the second one 6 hours later or a little longer.

    Does that help?
     
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  8. Mike d

    Mike d Type 2 · Expert

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    I'm sure you're not but fathom the reality of what you're asking, and yes the underlying issues. Cooking times, temperatures, timetables? How could we possibly understand that as none of us are you. If you waver as much as you said with regard to eating, you are still in "practice" mode.

    The 3 meals a day does NOT work for me, leastwise, not anymore. I graze, eat as I choose, and fast but ONLY when that need suits. We are individuals, same as you.
     
  9. tk123

    tk123 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Yes, this helps much more than the other replies.
    If you're not hungry do you still eat the first meal?
     
  10. tk123

    tk123 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I am Canadian, and diabetes doctors/dieticians/nutritionists here still push fruit and brown carbs sadly. My regular doctor is on par with low carb and approves but will not give food advice other than that.

    We eat salads a lot; so greens, usually a baby romaine mix, with cucumber, tomato, peppers, cheese, sometimes avocado, dressing and Whisps, which are a 100% parm cheese cracker. We usually have some sort of meat on it too, either chicken, ground meat with taco seasoning, or deli meats.

    I, sadly, cannot eat a lot of foods, so any cooked leafy greens (cabbage, spinach, kale) are out, as is fish. I really dislike plain yogurts and avocado unless it's in a salad or guac and chips (which is now a no) I tend to eat salad foods (including carrots some times), or cooked green beans, broccoli. I enjoy roasted cauliflower as well. Im worried about not getting enough fat, as they suggest 80% intake be fat.

    But Im also just not very hungry after cutting our sugar and carbs. I wasnt very carb heavy eater before, as they always upset my tummy so it wasnt a hard thing to do. But now Im just... Not hungry anymore, and I know fasting is fine to do, but again, worried about the content when I do eat too. But I'll try and shift from snacking to meals instead.
     
  11. tk123

    tk123 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Considering Bluetit1802 answered my questions a bit, I dont think it's that hard of a thing to answer. :) They provided a time frame, and explained it in a way I could understand.
     
  12. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    Do you want to loose weight as well as controlling your blood sugar? The idea behind intermittent fasting is to limit the insulin release caused by eating. So by eating a full meal say only once per day (known as OMAD One Meal A Day) you only create one insulin reaction. By snacking you create lots of small insulin reactions which cause your blood sugars to go up and down during the day which can create hunger. So you are better when trying a fasting regime to eat one or two meals a day only. I try and eat my meals in a restricted window so say lunch at 1 pm and dinner at 7 pm This is known as 18:6 fasting . i.e. nothing to et for 18 hours and eat within that 6 hour window. That window can be at any time so if you get up at noon you can have breakfast and then dinner at say 6 pm. I never have a morning meal so on your timetable may eat at maybe 6 pm and midnight? I dn;t know what your work schedule is but something like that. You can move the times to suit yourself and more people do a 16:8 hour regime so they will eat in an 8 hour window and just have drinks or sleep during the 16 hours. I'll usually have coffee with cream or tea when not eating.
     
  13. Mbaker

    Mbaker Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't worry too much about 80% fat, that's the top end some do - I don't. Most of my fats are in the form of mixed nuts - I do over do these a bit. As your Doctor is on board, it's all about your bloods, as this will show if your nutrition is right. Apparently those who eat the least live the longest, so if you feel energetic, enjoy your food and your bloods say you are healthy great. There is not a right way fully to do this lifestyle, except reducing sugar and carbs as this is where the intolerance is for many.
     
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  14. tk123

    tk123 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Losing weight is not my priority, but it wouldnt be a downside! I'm 5'5 and a half, 175lbs, very stocky, wide shoulders, and so on. I have about 30 to lose to be considered a normal weight.

    What is a timeframe for snacking near a meal to not create a second insulin reaction? Is that something that is known? If I eat a small snack, and then have a meal in 30 minutes, is it considered part of the meal, or? Sorry if this is an odd question. Im sure I wont be able to curb snacks right away. I'll try and add them to my meals (Like, having my almond package then, versus 2 hours later)

    I only work on weekends, and was actually considering fasting both days, just because it's a desk job, and I already eat so little, usually only snacks.. Just consuming tea and cream/coconut oil, and maybe broth if I can get some info on that. (Do you know how much too much cream/tea would be?)
     
  15. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Legend

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    I am never hungry! However, I enjoy meal times. My husband and I sit down together at the table at lunch times and tea times, even though we aren't always eating the same things because he still eats carbs. It is something we have always done. So yes, I still eat the first meal. I should add that I have no weight to lose so I need to keep my calorie intake up. No way could I eat enough calories in just one meal.
     
  16. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    I don't think anyone really knows for sure as measuring insulin is relatively hard. I tend to try to eat within a 30 minute period so I'll hazard a guess that that works for me. There are also times when I have been less strict though without adverse effects. If you are aiming for an eating window then anything within that window should be ok. Maybe a smaller window would uit you better then no snacks in the fasting window just drinks? I believe you are Canadian? Have you heard of Dr Jason Fung? He's a Canadian nephrologist (kidney specialist) who has had great success with treating Type 2's with fasting. Would be worth checking out his website and videos.
    https://idmprogram.com
    The video resources are very informative and he has a couple of books out one specifically on fasting.
     
  17. lindijanice

    lindijanice Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Hey tk123, welcome and I am glad to see you asking your questions - the people responding are very knowledgeable and really do care and want you to succeed! I don't know what your financial situation is, but dietdoctor.com has a plan that you can order for about $9.00 U.S. It gives you recipes with specific instructions, shopping lists, and if there is one you don't like, you can switch it with one you do like and the shopping list will adjust for the changes....If you want to cook up a few meals and have in fridge to just grab and go, they work well for that. Just a thought and there is a ton of other info there as well as inspiring stories....

    You mentioned about maybe fasting while you are at work - that might work as that is the time you are probably least likely to be thinking about food as your mind is on other things. You work the weekends, eh? (Yes, I am in Canada!) Don't worry too much about the actual amounts of cream or tea or coffee you consume...but I would encourage you to try and increase your water intake - maybe with lemon or lime juice in it or iced tea - made yourself without sugar added! Get yourself a pretty water bottle and keep it filled and take it everywhere!

    I forget what you have said about your blood sugars - you want them better controlled? Perhaps you would be better starting out with dietdoctor.com recipes - there are lots of free ones too - and really get comfortable eating low carb higher fat and protein meals and then see if intermittent fasting is something you really want to try. There are many people who have great success with this way of eating and never do fasting. It is not for everyone - we all are individuals and need to try out things and then decide for ourselves.

    You mentioned that your hubby wants to lose weight - if you both eat low carb higher fat and protein, he will lose weight too!! By the way, you do not have to give up guacamole - it is amazing on a hamburger with a bit of salsa - you won't even miss the nachos!!!

    Hope this helps, I know it is a long post....I would just say, be kind to yourself - you can do this - it is a marathon, not a sprint....Blessings/L
     
    #17 lindijanice, Jan 30, 2018 at 9:20 PM
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2018
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