Statins - good or bad - what does the research say?

[fumanchu]

Has anbody in here had heart attacks and then come off statins?

 

[GrannyAnnie]

I believe it is normal to temporary stop Metformin in advance of certain medical procedures, It is in the leaflet that comes in the pack. Not sure if statins carry same. I am off statins now, so have no leaflets around to check myself. Presumably if you get the all clear from your blood tests, then you should be advised accordingly. At least you will be aware to ask the question.
The advice on stopping metformin I gave above is subject to discussion, and you may find the following of interest
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/835713_3
Please note that this change may only apply if kidney function is not impaired, so your infection may preclude this.
i seem to remember that some statins I was on did have a warning about impaired kidney function, so it may be right that they stopped it until you got sorted out.

Hi, My blood tests came back as 'normal'. I have stopped taking the statins as I don't think they are helping me. My GP was very keen for me to keep taking them "even if you take one every other day" she said! Do they take a while to get out of your system I wonder??? I didn't tell her that I had not taken them in the weeks leading up to the blood test!

 

[Daphne917]

When I came off Simvastin 20g which I'd been taking for 9+ years, my average fbg came down by approx 1.5 points - coincidence? I think not

It may be a coincidence but my Hba1c rose from 48 to 54 when I was on Pravistatin. When I came off them it started going down and is now 36.

 

[AtkinsMo]

Has anbody in here had heart attacks and then come off statins?

I haven't had a heart attack, but I believe that a very knowledgeable Cardiologist (who is also a 'Statin Sceptic') has very good information about this. his name is Dr Aseem Molhatra. The statistical likelihood of having an 'adverse effect' by coming off statins for, say, a fortnight, are minimal. Then you can determine if any adverse effects that you are suffering are actually statin related. (He isn't a Statin never person, but believes that the benefits must outweigh the risks) I watched a Video of a conference presentation yesterday where he explained this, but I can't send you the link as it was a conference that is 'pay to view'. If there is anybody out there that is REALLY interested in Low Carb High Fat the Conference is actually worth the money. It was held in Cape Town South Africa last year and is the first time that all the experts in Low Carb High Fat from all over the world have come together in a conference. Several of the papers are specifically related to LCHF for managing diabetes. There are 4 days of lectures to watch. You may find other videos from him on You Tube. I believe you can find the conference under LCHFconvention.

 

[fumanchu]

Thanks Mo xxx My husband has had 3 heart attacks and before that many years of Angina. So as you will appreciate I'm wary of encouraging him to stop taking them. He was on 40mg but got it down to 10mg now and cholestrol is steady - but he really really wants to come off them altogether and we don't know the best thing to do.

 

[DavidGrahamJones]

He was on 40mg but got it down to 10mg now and cholesterol is steady - but he really really wants to come off them altogether and we don't know the best thing to do.

Depending on which statin (Atorvastatin vs Simvastatin doses are definitely different) 10mg is pretty good going. I use to be on 40 mg Atorvastatin but as my cholesterol dropped so much when I lowered my carb intake I felt less anxious about stopping.

Having had 3 ECGs in the last year and a heart echo cardiogram it would seem my pipes are OK, at the moment.

 

[bulkbiker]

I think for me even if statins were a sure fire preventative against heart attacks and strokes ( they are not at all guaranteed and only protect against one of the two types of stroke in best case scenario - the non fatal ones. The ones most likely to be fatal they give no protection against!) I would prefer a shorter life free of the side effects rather than have a long life but debilitated by muscle pains etc. ( yes I know not everyone gets them apparently but I'm not taking that risk, since for some people it seems irreversible damage is done). For myself I have proved that the low carb diet is more effective than statins and I am glad you are trying this @borderter. You might still have difficulty persuading your doc that you don't want statins because of course the practice gets extra money for prescribing them (and for every diabetic on their books and statins increase risk of diabetes......). Unfortunately many docs still see all diabetics as the same so prescribe the one size fits all meds regardless of actual risks it seems.
I'm almost tempted to make an appointment just to say 'you know you told me Diabetes was progressive and I should take metformin and statins - well look what a low carb diet high in good fats has done. Thank-you for scaring me with the threat of meds as it gave me the impetus to find a better way and I have done. I actually feel years younger now!"

I think you should make that appointment otherwise they will never find out that LCHF for some/most here works so much better than anything else. I am seeing a new DN next week will be interesting to see what she has to say..

 

[fumanchu]

Depending on which statin (Atorvastatin vs Simvastatin doses are definitely different) 10mg is pretty good going.

He is on Simvastatin

 

[AtkinsMo]

Fumanchu, only your husband can make that decision. My husband and I are in a different position, we are both 'statin refusors' because, having both had 'high cholesterol', but no history of heart disease, we have both said no to statins for primary prevention because we believe that the evidence in support of statin use in our case is very weak indeed. Having done A LOT of reading and research on this matter, we are entirely unconvinced. However, there is evidence of some benefits to statin therapy following a heart attack, I think this is likely linked to the anti-inflammatory action of statins, rather than cholesterol lowering. Personally, I believe that cholesterol levels are pretty much irrelevant. However, taking this decision you are actually disagreeing with 'mainstream' medical opinion, so every individual needs to make that decision for him/herself.
But I am increasingly sceptical about the pharmaceutical industry and indeed the food industry. Both are in the business of generating profits for share-holders and in recent decades have shown little regard for benefitting mankind! I know that sounds rather extreme, I am not (or was not) a conspiracy theorist. The book 'Bad Pharma' by Ben Goldacre, sums up all that is wrong with the pharmaceutical industry / medical schools and even continuous professional development for doctors (nearly all provided / financed by drug companies).
The only thing that I would say, (that seems blindingly obvious even to me, a lay person) up to 20% of people experience side effects from statins, the most common being muscle / joint pain. If that muscle / joint pain results in you actually moving less, that MUST be bad for your heart. Ask your doctor what would reduce your risk more, a statin, or walking 5 miles a day. We have opted for the latter.

 

[fumanchu]

Agree absolutely. If it was me then I could come off them and face the doc and tel him why - but when it's somebody else's life then it isn't that easy. I am passing on everything and leaving it to him. I bet that's a scary book to read. Thanks pet x

 

[Finsky]

I can't tell how pleased I am reading through this post and seeing that many other people have found the info I had to plough through when I was suffering with statin side effects (it was starting feel lonely job..)..with no help from doctors and nurses...they point blank refused the accept that I would have such a things...they are 'SO RARE....and DEFINATELY DON'T affect those muscle groups!' ...famous words from A/E doctor when I had to rush there with severe leg pains. In the end, if I would not have taken myself off from statins...repeatedly rejected doctor's further offerings for them...I don't think I would be alive anymore and tell the tail.
AND...when 'they' finally admit that I 'might' have had some issues....never ever the 'yellow form' was mentioned...something that I found out much later on..they truly should fill the form automatically and not expect patients to know such a things or ask about it!!! I suspect majority of statins issues goes unreported.

Next week I have my 'MOT' appointment in diabetic clinic....no doubt the battle against statins will commence..

 

[AtkinsMo]

Fill in the yellow form yourself, it's really important that we all do, then maybe, eventually, the truth will out.

https://yellowcard.mhra.gov.uk

 

[Oldvatr]

As I have pointed out before, you have a basic right to refuse treatment. I might make you unpopular but they cannot force you to take medication you do not want. At worst, say YES to it, then leave the pills in the box, which is what I agreed with my doc. That way he covers his rear end, (or gets paid) and I keep my decision.

We both win this way, only the taxpayer loses. But as the posts in this thread seem to suggest, overall my decision may be saving money in other ways.

 

[AtkinsMo]

Just be smilingly polite and say, "No thank you". It's your body, only you can decide on your treatments, stand firm, be politely assertive, not always easy in the face of white coated 'experts'. If you want to bolster up your resolve read Malcolm Kendrick's 'The Great Cholesterol Con', very well written, packed full of facts and information and a cracking good read.

 

[Daphne917]

Next week I have my 'MOT' appointment in diabetic clinic....no doubt the battle against statins will commence..

I have the statins battle every 6 months even though the reason why I came off them is documented. My cholesterol is currently 5.1 (HDL 1.3, LDL 3.1 & triglycerides 0.7) yet I'm still being told I need to think about statins! I think about them but that's as far as it goes!

 

[jaywak]

I went to my Doc for my Bi-annual thyroid check and he called me back two weeks later to show me on a graph over the last 14 years my cholesterol had been between 4-5 but the last check was 7, I then told him that due to my severe muscle pains especially in my shoulders I had stopped taking my Statins 3 months ago, he has now put me on a different Statin and said it's your choice whether you take them or not, I hope I have made the right choice to carry on with them!

 

[AtkinsMo]

Each of us, individually, needs to make that choice, if we are put in that position. Nobody can advise you one way or the other. Read, think, weigh up the benefits and the downside for yourself, then be happy with the decision you have made.

 

[les74]

'Statins Raise Diabetes Risk.'
A front page headline in today's Daily Express with an article on recent research suggests 'pensioners' who take statins increase there risk of developing diabetes by up to 50%' The article mentions the usual side effects but what is concerning increased blood sugar levels. My DN assured me these side affects were only present in a very small number of patients surveyed and the benefits outweighed the risks! Mmmm not sure !

 

[Brunneria]

'Statins Raise Diabetes Risk.'
A front page headline in today's Daily Express with an article on recent research suggests 'pensioners' who take statins increase there risk of developing diabetes by up to 50%' The article mentions the usual side effects but what is concerning increased blood sugar levels. My DN assured me these side affects were only present in a very small number of patients surveyed and the benefits outweighed the risks! Mmmm not sure !

The whole 50% increase thing is a bit of a red herring, and the media should be a bit more responsible in the way they bandy these terms around.

I believe the Express are quoting 5% for pensioners after statin use.

So if that risk was originally around 3.2% (without statins) and is increased by 50% (with statins), to make 5% of them get diabetes from statin induced raised blood glucose.

Don't get me wrong - I don't want ANYONE to get D as a side effect from a supposedly helpful medication. And 5% is 5% too many! But it does kind of put things into proportion... especially as the majority of pensioners are over 70 years old, and as I understand it, statins are not advised for people over 70 (though that guideline may have been changed).

Also worth remembering that type 2 diabetes is increasingly prevalent the older we get, so there will be new diagnoses in the 70+ age group, whether they are on statins or not.

 

[les74]

I tend to agree with your sentiments on media hype. However as we are already diabetics on this forum that risk is now academic. I'm more concerned at the blood glucose spike effect and wonder how prevalent that effect is? I'm 74 and was prescribed statins without a second thought by my GP.