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Statins - good or bad - what does the research say?

Discussion in 'Diabetes Discussions' started by Indy51, Jan 1, 2016.

  1. ickihun

    ickihun Type 2 · Master

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    I agree when it's overboard but knowledge is power. I'm all for backing our experience up with what only some scientist will be mainly interested in. Proof.
     
  2. ickihun

    ickihun Type 2 · Master

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    It is coming over loud and clear. Too high or too low IS dangerous!
    Moderation, in all things helpsvthe body stay healthy.
     
  3. Mike d

    Mike d Type 2 · Expert

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    Agreed, but there is NO proof one way or the other
     
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  4. zand

    zand Type 2 · Expert

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    I've been thinking about this subject this morning, as there is another thread where someone asks for advice. I was wondering (and it's just my thoughts, nothing more than that) why some people's cholesterol go up when they have extra dairy fats and sat fats and others don't. Is it because these fats contain cholesterol? Or is it perhaps that these people have a mild dairy intolerance which then increases inflammation in the body and causes the body to produce more cholesterol to protect from the resulting extra inflamation caused by the intolerance? So when dairy intake is reduced then the inflammation and cholesterol levels both go down?

    Like I said, just thinking aloud, don't mind me, while I'm asking this question here I am giving my poor hubby a rest from what he calls my 'What if?....syndrome' :)
     
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  5. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    You could well be correct.. from what I understand increased cholesterol is an indicator of something wrong with the body. The body produces it to repair itself.. so by artificially lowering cholesterol we are not only stopping it from doing it's job but could well be harming ourselves at the same time. That could explain why lower cholesterol levels, maybe induced by statins, cause a higher rate of all cause mortality But as no-one can see the real study data we'll never know.
    This may of course be complete rubbish ...
     
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  6. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

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    Not a bad question at all. as there must be some mechanism that differs from person to person. I did read a very learned treatise on the endocrine system where it discussed the role of cholesterol in its journey fron Chylomicron , VLDL.LDL trigs to HDL and VLDL and exit. This paper also dealt with the role of enzymes in this process. Now each of us has different flora and fauna in our guts, so we all digest things in different ways. This may answer to the why me? question above.

    Once the cholesterol is manufactured by the body, then each packet is given a 'delivery note' which describes to the receptors what status the cholesterol is in . such as Type, full.empty, new, too old etc. This is a chemical signalling system at the molcular level and is unique to each of us. These tags control how the cholesterol is used. The tags will only connect with receptors requesting that tag, and everything else is ignored. So alien cholesterol made outside the body will not match with the bodies signals, and will be ignored.
    However, some external cholesterol is broken up and useful bits recycled, and in so doing acquire a compatible tag, so we cannot say cholesterol in fats is ignored, it just becomes re-badged.

    There is a good write up on Wikipedia on saturated fats that acknowledges both the current low fat advice and the new LCHF findings since 2014,

    The British Heart Foundation has recently added the following to their website, but they still maintain the Eatwell stance of High Carb Low (not saturated ) Fats in moderation, which is current /NICE and NHS thinking.
    At the moment UK guidelines encourage us to swap saturated fats for unsaturated fats. You might have seen reports about a study we helped to fund which suggests there’s not enough evidence to back the current UK guidelines on the types of fat we eat. We think more research is needed before suggesting any major changes to healthy eating guidance

    Everyman and his dog is spouting that saturated fat increases cholesterol, but none say why or how this statement came about. May be someone can provide a relevant study that demonstrates this, (other than Ancel Keys, please) I lost my bookmark to the endocrine research, so not sure if it discussed this. As I pointed out earlier, recent thinking on a high fat diet says this is not unexpected, and recent studies are showing that TC is no longer a good indicator for CVD ( as stated by the BHF chairman recently)
     
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  7. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    As far as I know there isn't one.. even Keys apparently came to the conclusion that dietary fat has little if any impact on cholesterol levels. Zoe Harcombes latest video put's it all quite succinctly and is detailed enough for me. When the WHF president (retired) also supports natural fats as being beneficial that's a slam dunk for me.
     
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  8. DavidGrahamJones

    DavidGrahamJones Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    No, eating cholesterol does not increase your cholesterol levels, even Ancel Keys was saying that back in the late 50s. There's been plenty of empirical evidence to support that and the one piece of evidence that amuses me is the Surrey University trial where they made test subjects (students) eat several eggs a day for 12 weeks. End result was no change in total cholesterol. The thought of students eating loads of eggs just tickles my inner youth, very childish, but so what.

    I've just had an HbA1c and fasting cholesterol test only 3 months after the last one because HbA1c is gone wrong.

    Unfortunately my HbA1c is elevated at 57 (used to be 44) and it's obvious my body makes glucose out of whatever it can get, probably protein. Why it's decided to do that after 4 years I have no idea. Also my total cholesterol has gone from 4 to 5.4 in the space of 3 months, no proper explanation for that but confirms my decision to cut out the HF bit of LCHF again. Dairy is now verboten.

    To be tested in 3 months, shame about the HbA1c but does show that the low carb thing may not be enough for everyone. Just wish I understood the change.
     
  9. My hba1c certainly dropped when I stopped dairy. Fingers crossed it works for you. Diabetes might keep moving the goalposts, but you'll get there :)
     
  10. ickihun

    ickihun Type 2 · Master

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    Another thing @zand thyroid production has interlinks with cholesterol. Apparently. Underactive thyroid suffers have lower cholesterol, I think.
    Adrenalin linked to overactive thyroid stresses out the arteries (inflames) so plaque collects easier.
    I'm getting my thyroid reinvestigated, hopefully wednesday. As I'm having overactive symptoms but tsh level ok, apparently.
    Thyroid health definately affects cholesterol affect on the arteries.
     
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  11. ickihun

    ickihun Type 2 · Master

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    My hba1c increases with no nuts, no cheese and no cream/butter.
    Nuts are giving me inflammation.
     
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  12. DavidGrahamJones

    DavidGrahamJones Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I'd forgotten about that. It's been frustrating because in January 2016 my GP said you're not eating enough, you must eat more. She had suggested carbs which was pretty stupid, I just looked at my gut because that's where it would end up . . . . and more glucose in my blood. Technically the GP was correct and I'd heard plenty of people say how the body gets used to less calories . . . . . . . . etc.

    So I started on the full fat yoghurt, real cheese as opposed to Edam all the time, and cream in my coffee (don't drink that much anyway). Even then my calorie intake was much less than 2760 that Mr Harris and Mr Benedict think I should consume. At about 1200 to 1500 on a good day I feel that I'm eating like a sparrow anyway. Net result was a 11 kg weight gain, cholesterol dropped to 4 and HbA1c went up. The problem with my weight was that it could go up or down by 5kg in a week, no problem, because of fluid retention. What then happens is that on week it doesn't go down and he up and down thing starts again. Water, fat, who knows.

    The problem I then had was resisting the cheese and yoghurt and I've now succeeded. I actually took my own advice and I don't buy it in the first place. Her indoors is very unhappy about the stuff not being in the fridge but my health is more important, perhaps we should buy another fridge with a lock on it for her treats. LOL

    I've got my FS Libre to show trends, so we shall see. Thanks for the reminder. It's my statin induced brain fog. See, back on topic.
     
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  13. Sid Bonkers

    Sid Bonkers Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    As I said earlier the Cockrane Library look at ALL available data and base their reviews on evidence from all sources and they are totally unbiased they do not have an agenda, they do not cherry pick the data they want and disregard or even rubbish all the rest.

    At the end of the day you can believe what you want to believe and I will believe what I want to believe, Im not telling you what you should do or what to believe, all I did was post a link that some people might find interesting, if you choose to believe something else then thats your prerogative.
     
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  14. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

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    Then I guess we will have to disagree. I don't accept guru's or spiritual leaders of whatever leaning, and I certainly do not accept published reports at face value. Call it lack of faith, I call it prudence. My job was Safety Involved, so I tried to make sure that our company produced the most reliable equipment we possibly could. So if you ever fly in an airliner,, just pray that I succeeded, I had to meet many Standards required for CAA and EASA flight Certification and perform rigorous testing and analysis. I know how easy it is to fudge test results, especially when using statistics. Governments have been using them for years to justify things and bamboozle us.

    As soon as you define a Gold Standard, someone somewhere will skirt around it and take short cuts. Remember Challenger 7? Forget Gold Plated Standards and fight instead for transparency so many eyes can assess the results and bring about corrections where necessary. Ticks in the box do nothing for me.

    Cochrane is just one more step towards that goal, but it is open to corruption since it too suppresses data and its workings so there is no overview of their conclusions. 'Who tests the Tester' syndrome. Remember that the sighted rule in the land of the blind.
     
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  15. JohnEGreen

    JohnEGreen Other · Master

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    At the local hospital Rheumatology consultants have been finding that they are having to take many of their patients of statins because of the side effects, they have been having a bad reaction to this from some GPs who for some reason are upset by it arguing erroneously that it is the arthritis meds that are the problem.
     
  16. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

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    • Informative Informative x 2
  17. JohnEGreen

    JohnEGreen Other · Master

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    I was listening to a radio program the other day where they were discussing the rise of companies that are providing people on degree courses and nursing courses with course work and essays that they can submit as their own work.

    One such paper picked up as being fake stated that Insulin should always be given after food big mistake.It is they said hard to tell how many students have passed their courses using such papers provided by third parties.
     
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