Surgery trying to put me on Statins... Again!

luceeloo

Well-Known Member
Messages
677
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Insulin
But your sig says you are already started on them (Ducks & runs for cover)
SORRY;)

I should update that!! I threw them in the bin, and told DSN that she was welcome to try them herself if she fancied putting on huge amounts of weight in short spaces of time. She didn't seem keen on the idea lol.
 

CollieBoy

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,974
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
Hi carb Foods
Sorry,
having an irreverent morning and did a wordplat on "dont start me on ..."

Weaned myself off Glic and "chucked statins due to muscle pains!"
 

Dark Horse

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,840
I'm really very annoyed today.
I had my annual review yesterday, and it all went a little bit better than I thought it would. My hba1c is down to 7.9% from 9.1% despite me having tantrum and throwing all my Gliclazide in the bin a few weeks back.
Cholesterol was 5.3 last time, it's 4.5 this time, with my Triglycerides at 1.7. So not ideal, but better and definitely moving in the desired direction.
So, then there was the QRisk (which I posted about elsewhere), which takes into account all kinds of things like BMI, Cholesterol levels, blood pressure etc, and gives a lovely % of the risk of cardiovascular disease in the next 10 years.
My level is 10.4% and anything 10 or above is where the GP's like to take action.
I refused to take a statin, having been on them before. And gave the very valid reason that I'm of childbearing age and would quite like to bear a child at some point in the not so distant future.

So, yesterday we left it where she gave me 3 months to "prove" that my cholesterol is on a downward curve, and we'd sit down and discuss in December.

This afternoon whilst at work I got a phonecall from my Nurse. She'd reviewed my case with the GP and the Dr had decided that I should start a Statin, so my prescription of Atorvastatin had already been put in at my usual pharmacy.
I asked her how that would impact the fact that we are trying to conceive, and she told me that we wouldn't be able to whilst I am on a statin.

How dare they assume that they can control people's life plans simply because I most likely tick a box that will get them a bit more funding! I'm 36, that biological clock is ticking quite loudly these days... so am I just supposed to put all plans on hold for years?
Needless to say, I have no plans to take said drug, but it still makes me very angry that the NHS rarely ever takes the whole person into consideration!
Whether you take a statin or not is entirely your decision but your GP should be providing you with enough information to make an informed choice.

The NICE guidance says, "Before offering statin treatment for primary prevention, discuss the benefits of lifestyle modification and optimise the management of all other modifiable CVD risk factors if possible. [new 2014]" and "If lifestyle modification is ineffective or inappropriate offer statin treatment after risk assessment. [new 2014]". Note the use of the word "offer".

In addition the guidelines say, "The decision whether to start statin therapy should be made after an informed discussion between the clinician and the person about the risks and benefits of statin treatment, taking into account additional factors such as potential benefits from lifestyle modifications, informed patient preference, comorbidities, polypharmacy, general frailty and life expectancy. [new 2014]"

It doesn't sound like you have had the appropriate discussions, particularly if you are trying for a baby - women should have a wash-out period of 3 months following statin therapy before getting pregnant.

References:
https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/cg181/chapter/1-Recommendations
https://heartuk.org.uk/files/uploads/documents/huk_fs_mfsO_statinsinpregnancy.pdf
 

Dark Horse

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,840
I wonder if GP's get paid extra for prescribing statins. Anyone know?
There was a proposal that statin prescription should be one of the QOF targets for 2016 (the Quality and Outcomes Framework rewards practices for the provision of 'quality care'). GPs were up in arms about this, pointing out that this would reward GPs who prescribed a statin routinely for all patients with a greater than 10% QRisk but would fail to reward GPs who had a discussion with the patient about lifestyle modification, their risk of CHD, balance of benefits versus harms of statin therapy and then respected patient choice of whether to take a statin or not. See this article in the GP magazine, Pulse, for full discussion:- http://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/gps-to-...old-under-nice-proposals/20009045.fullarticle

You can read the guidance for the current QOF here (pp 54-64 address diabetes):-
http://www.nhsemployers.org/~/media...OF/2016-17/2016-17 QOF guidance documents.pdf
 
  • Like
Reactions: dawnmc

dawnmc

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,431
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Non-insulin injectable medication (incretin mimetics)
And as it turns out statins are in the news again, saying they are safe. You can bet your bottom dollar GP's don't report all the side affects from patients to the powers that be, probably too much paper work.
 

Daibell

Master
Messages
12,642
Type of diabetes
LADA
Treatment type
Insulin
I should update that!! I threw them in the bin, and told DSN that she was welcome to try them herself if she fancied putting on huge amounts of weight in short spaces of time. She didn't seem keen on the idea lol.
Hi. Gliclazide, like insulin, only causes weight gain if you eat too many carbs. Glic stimulates the body to produce more insulin which then enables you to use any carbs you consume. Glic is a good drug but needs to be used in the right context.
 

luceeloo

Well-Known Member
Messages
677
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Insulin
Hi. Gliclazide, like insulin, only causes weight gain if you eat too many carbs. Glic stimulates the body to produce more insulin which then enables you to use any carbs you consume. Glic is a good drug but needs to be used in the right context.
Personally, I think gliclazide is unsuitable for obese like me with significant insulin resistance.
My bloods were erratic whilst on it, I gained significant weight whilst eating less than 20g carbs a day. I went on a severe diet, gained another half a stone in a month. I became annoyed, depressed and lost my self esteem due to gaining the weight I'd worked so hard to lose.
And for three weeks I ate whatever I wanted. I gained at the same rate!!
Dumped the glic and now I'm back on my usual 20g or less, I've lost 10lbs in 3 weeks. My bloods are rubbish, but only slightly worse than they were on the glic!
It's really not for everyone.
 

seadragon

Well-Known Member
Messages
316
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
Don't let them bully you into taking statins. At best they could increase your life expectancy by something like 4 days or you could be one of the 96% or more of people for whom they will have no benefit whatsoever but you'll still suffer side effects.
The last I heard surgeries were indeed getting extra money for every body they prescribed statins too. And of course they already get extra money for every diabetic on their books which may explain why they were so keen to get me as a pre diabetic to take statins (proven to increase blood sugar levels) and feed me a high carb diet. Truly I was advised by the nurse to make sure I ate plenty of starchy carbs at every meal.
For the record my cholesterol levels were around 5.5 total when i first went. But trigs lowish and HDL /LDL ratio was good. I said I didn't think my cholesterol needed lowering so doc then said 'oh statins have other benefits' but she was not able to be in any way specific about what those mythical other benefits might be (maybe didn't listen hard enough to the drug pushers (oops - salesmen) who are the main means docs get updated info these days. As far as I know though nobody has stated what these 'other benefits' could be.
Anyway after a year of low carb high fat diet (with great info from this forum and from dietdoctor.com ) my HBA1c was normal and my cholesterol though marginally higher total had lower trigs and better HDL /LDL ratio. The numbers they come up with seem to have been literally pulled out of thin air - there is no apparent rationale except greater use of statins and profits for the drug companies. Latest research does seem to point to too low a cholesterol being as dangerous as to high.
And if you want to get pregnant definitely do not take them. What dangerous advice you seem to have been given.I would be complaining or changing practices if possible.
The NHS is sadly very guilty of treating everyone as the same when we are all very different with different bodies, metabolisms, lifestyles, needs etc. Not only is this approach hugely wasteful ( who thinks it's a good idea to treat well people for no good reason with something that may in fact make them sick and often compromises their quality of life as well as being costly) of NHS resources but damaging to many people.
Whatever happened to 'First do no harm!"
 

Daibell

Master
Messages
12,642
Type of diabetes
LADA
Treatment type
Insulin
Personally, I think gliclazide is unsuitable for obese like me with significant insulin resistance.
My bloods were erratic whilst on it, I gained significant weight whilst eating less than 20g carbs a day. I went on a severe diet, gained another half a stone in a month. I became annoyed, depressed and lost my self esteem due to gaining the weight I'd worked so hard to lose.
And for three weeks I ate whatever I wanted. I gained at the same rate!!
Dumped the glic and now I'm back on my usual 20g or less, I've lost 10lbs in 3 weeks. My bloods are rubbish, but only slightly worse than they were on the glic!
It's really not for everyone.
Hi. You're absolutely right that Glic is not normally the right treatment if you have insulin resistance thru excess weight and prescribing them to you might not have been sensible. Having low carbs is absolutely right and it's good to hear the weight is dropping off. If the bloods are still too high it will make it easier to decide the next best meds. Double diabetes (T1+ T2) is not unknown but see where you get to.
 

992947x

Well-Known Member
Messages
46
Type of diabetes
Type 3c
Treatment type
Insulin
Hi. Gliclazide, like insulin, only causes weight gain if you eat too many carbs. Glic stimulates the body to produce more insulin which then enables you to use any carbs you consume. Glic is a good drug but needs to be used in the right context.

I agree. I found that the problem for me is that more insulin drives me to have huge carb cravings, and apparently if you don't satisfy these cravings then your metabolism slows down. This is why I have stopped my glic and then my insulin and lost my cravings. Since stopping insulin 5 weeks ago my weight has dropped 1.5 stones but more importantly my blood glucose has dropped from an average of 14 to 8.