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Telegraph: Statins for all over-50s to reduce heart deaths

borofergie

borofergie

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...in a misguided NHS cost saving exercise, according to tomorrows Telegraph.

They've been discussing it on "Tommorows Papers" on Sky News*. Can't find anything on the interweb about it yet.

*my wife puts it on, I'm a BBC man through and through.

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Re: Telegraph: Statins for all over-50s to reduce heart deat

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/ ... sfeed=true
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/artic ... ds-newsxml

So now we've finally reached the bizarre situation where we looking at drugging the whole population to cover up the cholesterol highering effects of the "heart unhealthy diet" pushed down everyone's throat by the NHS.

Richard Feinman said:
Dietary carbohydrate restriction is the single most effective method (except for total starvation) of reducing triglycerides, and is as effective as any intervention, including most drugs, at increasing HDL and reducing the number of small-dense LDL particles. Beyond lipid markers, carbohydrate restriction improves all of the features of metabolic syndrome.
Click to expand...
 
Re: Telegraph: Statins for all over-50s to reduce heart deat

Statins are certainly getting some good press of late, I was reading an article yesterday that said many GP's take statins themselves :o
 
Re: Telegraph: Statins for all over-50s to reduce heart deat

I'm with Mrs Borofergie on 'Sky'.
Saw the online version of the report.... might hold off for a while as one of the main side effects given as being 'stomach disturbance' - don't think I could take any more of that at the moment!
 
Re: Telegraph: Statins for all over-50s to reduce heart deat

MH turns 50 later this year - he won't be having Statins as one of his gifts - he's very anti Statins.

Ju

PS I'm sure I recognised several of our well-respected members posting comments on the Daily Mail article! Well done!
 
Re: Telegraph: Statins for all over-50s to reduce heart deat

I must have missed the good press...

Potential side-effects of Statins:
  • Muscle pain and damage
  • Liver damage
  • Digestive problems
  • Rash or flushing
  • Increased blood sugar or type 2 diabetes (yay!)
  • Neurological side effects

Potential side-effects of a Low Carb diet
  • No bread
  • No pasta
  • No spuds
  • No rice
  • No chocolate hobnobs

Maybe they should make a stain paste that we could spread on our healthy-wholegrain bagels.

I was under the impression that no-one had been able to prove and benefit in terms of reduced mortality when prescribing statins to women (who make up more than half of the 50+ population).

There are 21 million people over 50 in the UK. A year's worth of statins cost £17. Cost to the NHS = £357 million pounds.

Cost of prescribing a lower-carbohydrate diet = £zlich = £nada = £nothing
 
Re: Telegraph: Statins for all over-50s to reduce heart deat

I have been prescribed statins because my cholesteraol was high 5.3, I was told anything below 5 is ok, now the one thing that gets me is this is supossed to be a wonder drug??? As I'm on Simvastin, what the hell does it do to you if you eat grapefruit, as you are warned not to eat it, it's one of my fav foods and now I can't eat it, if I eat grapefruit and take my statin I am at risk of damaging my kidneys. Doesn't sound like such a good drug to me??? I'm currently reading a bok called the meet fix, the author was a vegan got IBS and other probs because all his food was processed soya, once he went back to meat all his problems stopped, now in the book he says, that this year the patent put on by the drug companies comes to an end, so those companies will lose out on the big bucks, as any drug company can now make a generic form at a fraction of the cost. And apparentley only 15% of cholesterol comes from your diet.
 
Re: Telegraph: Statins for all over-50s to reduce heart deat

A couple of trivial points; medicating the healthy? That's a good business to be in!

Secondly, as The Manic Street Preachers said 'if you tolerate this, your children will be next'. If everyone over 50 is on Statins how long before everyone under 16 is as well?

The other thing that struck me was this; the assumption is that elevated cholesterol causes coronary vascular disease. Statins lower cholesterol. Therefore take Statins to prevent CVD by lowering your cholesterol.

This study is saying your cholesterol levels don't matter; people who are not 'at risk' (which must mean those with low to 'normal' cholesterol levels) should take Statins, because there is some perceived benefit.

If you think about that it is in effect saying that limb 1 of the cholesterol / CVD theory is wrong - but, and here's the good bit, rather than dropping the whole cholesterol / Statins mantra the study says (pulling a rabbit out of its hat) ; 'Ta da! So EVERYONE should take Statins'.

I believe that Statins reduce cholesterol. I believe that they have some benefit for preventing CVD (not much but some). So, logically Statins must be doing something else that provides that modest protection; but what is it? No one knows and if this study is anything to go by no one cares (present company excluded).

Best

Dillinger
 
Re: Telegraph: Statins for all over-50s to reduce heart deat

Julie1471 said:
I have been prescribed statins because my cholesteraol was high 5.3, I was told anything below 5 is ok, now the one thing that gets me is this is supossed to be a wonder drug???
Click to expand...

Not that I read Saga you understand (!), but here's Dr Kendrick a GP and very eloquent 'statins are rubbish' advocate, in particular look what he has to say about statins and women:-

http://www.saga.co.uk/health/medicines/ ... ainst.aspx

Best

Dillinger
 
Re: Telegraph: Statins for all over-50s to reduce heart deat

Statins can also cause diabetes!!!
 
Re: Telegraph: Statins for all over-50s to reduce heart deat

I'm a big fan of Anchorman (Will Ferrell's best film in my opinion) and one of the many great quotes from it is in relation to the 'pulling power' of a cologne called Black Panther; one of the characters says '60% of the time it works all the time'. Beautiful phrase, said convincingly, and meaning absolutely nothing.

But now as near as **** it that phrase has been used in the context of this Lancet article. I don't think Prof Ebrahim was trying to be funny though:

Prof Shah Ebrahim, from the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, suggests everyone over 50 should take statins, because "83% of 50-year old men have a 10% risk of cardiovascular disease in the next 10 years."

That's '80% have a 10% risk all the time.'

Be quiet at the back and take your medicine... :shock:
 
Re: Telegraph: Statins for all over-50s to reduce heart deat

What will happen if we are not good little patients and we dont take our nice pills so that the nice rich drug companies can make lots of money? Will they send nursey round every morning to hold our noses and make us swallow :shock:
:lol: CAROL
 
Re: Telegraph: Statins for all over-50s to reduce heart deat

Pfizer's in a large clinical study, 3% of patients taking a sugar pill or placebo had a heart attack compaired to 2% of patients taking Lipitor. But this was in Pfizers own add for Lipitor, but that information was nextto a * and in very small text, under the main ad, so it means a 1 in 100 reduction in the risk of having a heart attack.

100 people have to take Lipitor for more than 3 years to prevent 1 heart attack.!!!! Looks like it does not work that well???

Think I'll be getting an app with gp, to ask what good it is doing me??? other than constant pain in my neck and shoulder on my left side, if hubby grabs my left arm or trys to pull me up I'm in screaming agony and in tears.

Think I'd be stuffing the pill down nursey's throat!!!!
 
Re: Telegraph: Statins for all over-50s to reduce heart deat

Julie1471 said:
I have been prescribed statins because my cholesteraol was high 5.3, I was told anything below 5 is ok, now the one thing that gets me is this is supossed to be a wonder drug??? As I'm on Simvastin, what the hell does it do to you if you eat grapefruit, as you are warned not to eat it, it's one of my fav foods and now I can't eat it, if I eat grapefruit and take my statin I am at risk of damaging my kidneys. Doesn't sound like such a good drug to me??? I'm currently reading a bok called the meet fix, the author was a vegan got IBS and other probs because all his food was processed soya, once he went back to meat all his problems stopped, now in the book he says, that this year the patent put on by the drug companies comes to an end, so those companies will lose out on the big bucks, as any drug company can now make a generic form at a fraction of the cost. And apparentley only 15% of cholesterol comes from your diet.
Click to expand...



Below 4 is the recommended total cholesterol figure for people with diabetes. The grapefruit dilemma is one I believe there you can overcome as there is a couple of statins that are safe to take whilst eating grapefruit, you'd need to speak with your gp about which ones are appropriate.

I know of one statin called Artovastatin which is out of licence at the end of May which could be what your author is referring too and should see it widely available due to the reduction in cost to the NHS, all drug companies make big bucks be-it in diabetes meds/consumables or the treatment of other illnesses and conditions.

As diabetics we are twice as likely to have a heart attack or stroke and heart disease is the biggest killer of diabetics, personally I wouldn't like to advise anyone not to take statins and believe that is a decision needed to be taken between the individual and their HCP's, it sends a shiver down my spine to think that someone is persuaded not to take a statin by the scaremongering on Internet forums and a few years down the line suffer the terrible consequences of a heart attack or stroke, these are peoples lives we are talking about and we should always keep this in mind.
 
Re: Telegraph: Statins for all over-50s to reduce heart deat

noblehead said:
I wouldn't like to advise anyone not to take statins and believe that is a decision needed to be taken between the individual and their HCP's, it sends a shiver down my spine to think that someone is persuaded not to take a statin by the scaremongering on Internet forums and a few years down the line suffer the terrible consequences of a heart attack or stroke, these are peoples lives we are talking about and we should always keep this in mind.
Click to expand...

Neither would I. I didn't see anyone scaremongering or advising anyone not to take their medication. Are you saying that we shouldn't discuss the potential side-effects of a medcation that they are talking about prescribing to everybody?

Your best chance of surviving diabetes or any medical condition(for as long as possible) is by becoming an informed patient. In the words of the 20th Century's Greatest Philosopher:
Bruce Springsteen said:
Blind faith in your leaders, or in anything, will get you killed.
Click to expand...
 
Re: Telegraph: Statins for all over-50s to reduce heart deat

Dillinger said:
A couple of trivial points; medicating the healthy? That's a good business to be in!
Click to expand...

Are you saying that preventative medicine is a bad idea? I seem to remember you posting a few months ago that 'everyone' should take a vitamin D supplement, double standards or just that some things fit in with your view of things and others dont?

Many people take statins without problems and have found a big difference in their cholesterol so to say they dont work is nonsense, you may not want to take them but they are a lifeline to many others.

I am fortunate that my cholesterol has always been around the 4 mark every time I have been tested but if it had been 6 or 7 I think I would have accepted a statin if advised to do so.
 
Re: Telegraph: Statins for all over-50s to reduce heart deat

Sid Bonkers said:
I am fortunate that my cholesterol has always been around the 4 mark every time I have been tested but if it had been 6 or 7 I think I would have accepted a statin if advised to do so.
Click to expand...

Will you take them, if as the article suggests, they are prescribed by default to all over-50s? Even though you have good cholesterol scores?
 
Re: Telegraph: Statins for all over-50s to reduce heart deat

If it is proved to help save coronary problems, yes, i will take the advice of my cardiologist.

Let me ask you a question, if there had been a pill around when you were growing up that was proved to help stop people develop diabetes, would you or your parents have considered it? Were you immunised as a child against the usual diseases? Have or will your children be given the same help? Do you think that the NHS should have stopped giving the TB inoculation?

I think that preventative medicine can be very useful and should not be discounted just because a few dubious mavericks say something is useless, thats not to say I wouldnt consider things on an individual basis if offered preventative drugs but I like the idea of having a choice.
 
Re: Telegraph: Statins for all over-50s to reduce heart deat

I did read somewhere that it was mooted that statins be put into our drinking water rather like fluoride, hmm bit far maybe.
However I wouldn't touch statins.
 
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