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Test Strips - Complaint Response from the Dept of Health

I have some sympathy with this argument as I managed to get my levels down from 6.8 at diagnosis to 5.8 through changing my diet but I was told I wouldn't need to test so I didn't. I was then put onto statins and my BS levels increased to a point that I needed medication - I have since come off the statins and, consequently, the Sitagliptin and am now controlled by diet/exercise only again. However I can't help but think that had I found this forum sooner I probably would have asked about, or invested in, a meter sooner which may have prevented my needing medication because I would have noticed my BS steadily rising and done something about it earlier. This oversight cost the NHS more because I became entitled to free prescriptions - however this is now academic because I was diagnosed with u/active thyroid and the treatment also entitles me to free prescriptions. I purchased a meter in Sept last year and have identified some foods that have a dramatic effect on my BS. Whilst I agree that such a high rise in BS may do little or no harm in isolation such as the occasional chocolate or, particularly at this time of year, a piece of cake or mince pie, if it's a food that is classed as a staple such as pasta, rice, bread or potatoes of which I used to eat at least one, sometimes two, of these daily and in bigger portions that I currently do then the long term consequences would be detrimental and may, once again, mean the use of medication. Multiply this by the number of T2 diabetics that are in the UK who adhere to the NHS 'healthy plate' and think they are eating correctly then, in comparison to prescribing medication and other treatments, test strips on prescription may be cost effective after all!
 
Fergus I agree that HCP's poor knowledge is often the problem with diabetes management and think that all people with diabetes should have access to their local diabetes specialist team. .
i was "lucky" in that I was diagnosed in hospital and had access to their team, but had I been diagnosed at my GP, my total resources would have been via a "practice nurse" who deals with everything Diabetes, Asthma, Pregnancy.
 
Well phil I am sorry to sorry but i will not be spending the last bits of my saturday afternoon trawling through pubmed, cochrane data bases etc to find studies that you can't be bothered to find yourself. They are there and easily available if you want to find them, although it is time consuming. I did however try to find the page on diabetes uk which states that although they advocate testing they admit there is a lack of evidence for it and this is a direct quote - "the current lack of evidence does not mean that smbg is not effective for those not treated by insulin, it just means there is NO EVIDENCE."

the link for tjis document is below.

ww.diabetes.org.uk/Documents/.../Test%20strips%202011.pdf

I use diabetes uk as they are heavily involved in diabetes research and will of course have done systematic reviews of all the available evidence, for which they admit there is none, and it saves me spending hours pulling up all the research to prove my point to you.. Of course this may change over with time with more studies, but I stand by point that currently there is no evidence.

What I am trying to establish is if there is no evidence because no studies have been done, or if there is no evidence because studies have been done that show there is no correlation between testing and good BG control. I hope you will agree that "there is no evidence because it hasn't been looked at" is a completely different situation to "we have done the research and can prove there is no correlation".

To be honest, it doesn't make much difference to me one way or another because I have no intention of stopping testing but I was interested from an academic perspective and thought that as you kept mentioning this lack of evidence you may have had some of the details to hand
 
I absolutely agree with you sancho! The problem is that people do not recieve the support they should when they are diagnosed. It is devastating news to receive and to just be ushered out of the door with little info or support is so wrong. But being given a meter is not the only answer to this! Unfortunately there is a massive lack of consistency throughout the nhs in how people wiyh diabetes are treated, and I believe veryone should have access to a specialist diabetes team and structered education, which includes specialist nurses, dieticians and consultants. Blanket bg testing is not the answer, I believe anyway. My background is diabetes nurse specialist,, NOT a practice nurse that specialises in diabetes, the 2 are often confused. Althouh I have had a career change I still have an interest in diabetes and still work within the nhs.
 
Yes well I'm sorry if I came across as a little rude, I didn't mean to be. But no I dont happen to have all the studies on my tablet unfortunately. I see what you are saying but you still need the evidence before you can make decisions, and currently it is lacking. You could say it about anything couldn't you? Some people swear by homeopathy, but there is currently no evidence to support it, therefore the nhs does not usually fund it. You must be able to see that evidence is required for such things? Of course the evidence may come about one day, but it isn't here now and therefore the nhs cannot base it's decisions on treatment for which there is no evidence.
 
Yes well I'm sorry if I came across as a little rude, I didn't mean to be. But no I dont happen to have all the studies on my tablet unfortunately. I see what you are saying but you still need the evidence before you can make decisions, and currently it is lacking. You could say it about anything couldn't you? Some people swear by homeopathy, but there is currently no evidence to support it, therefore the nhs does not usually fund it. You must be able to see that evidence is required for such things? Of course the evidence may come about one day, but it isn't here now and therefore the nhs cannot base it's decisions on treatment for which there is no evidence.

I have no issues if the NHS doesn't supply strips because it can't afford it or can't justify the costs. What I do object to is being fed the line that there is no point in testing because it has no benefit when (for me at least), that's clearly untrue.

I am currently saving the NHS money because my DN was planning on doubling my metformin dose at my first appointment but didn't need to due to my control of my BS levels and she also said there was no need for me to go on any education courses (which I imagine aren't cheap) because I have things under control already and wouldn't really benefit from them. Both these savings have been made possible because of 2 things: the advice I got from this forum and the subsequent testing of my BS levels and eating to my meter.

All I wish is that the NHS would consider the possible benefits of controlling BS levels through the correct use of a meter and not ignore it as a possible way of controlling diabetes!
 
NICE guidelines for T2s are between 4 and 7.00 before meals and no more than 8.5 2 hours after - how are we able to tell whether or not we are within those limits if we do not test. I'm lucky and have access to the internet and can afford my own strips which enables me to bepro-active but there are some who are less fortunate.
 
Thank you for your reply katiek
I hope you stick around and continue to join in the forums
We can be a passionate lot on here lol
 
NICE guidelines for T2s are between 4 and 7.00 before meals and no more than 8.5 2 hours after - how are we able to tell whether or not we are within those limits if we do not test. I'm lucky and have access to the internet and can afford my own strips which enables me to bepro-active but there are some who are less fortunate.

Hi daphne, the answer to this is not very straight forward but I will come on and answer this for you and expand on the NICE guidance etc another day as I am absolutely done in! I have been consumed by this debate all day now and have been answering numerous different people all day! Sorry!
 
Thank you for your reply katiek
I hope you stick around and continue to join in the forums
We can be a passionate lot on here lol

Well thank you sancho! Yes I have discovered that there is a lot of passion flying around here! And although I am totally done in now I have enjoyed the debate! Thanks for the welcome :) I'm off to recuperate! Haha.
 
phil is that an actual diabetes nurse that told you you didnt need to increase your metformin dose, or a practice nurse? The therapeutic dose of metformin is 2 grams, it doesn't work like other tablets where you increase or decrease according to blood sugars. Unless there are issues with tolerance all the evidence (sorry to mention that pesky evidence again!) says that metformin should be taken at the therapeutic dose of 2g.
 
Although I can understand why people want to test their blood glucose levels the reality is that there is no robust, conclusive evidence that it improves diabetes control for those with type 2 on diet/diet and metformin. The NHS is in crisis finacially and will not fund interventions for which there is no evidence, this is for any healthcare intervention, for any condition, not just diabetes. Even on diabetes UK, where they advocate testing, they admit that numerous studies have failed to produce evidence that bg testing improves control for T2 on diet/metformin, and that HbA1c remains the gold standard in monitoring for this group of patients. They justify the use of blanket testing by saying it makes people feel better and more in control, but this does not justify the huge financial cost of funding. The reality is that it is impossible for the NHS to fund the cost of treatments that have no evidence base, there just isn't the money. As another poster pointed out, if you don't qualify for the strips on the NHS you can always buy them yourself. Many people with health conditions do not get free prescriptions and have to pay charges for their medication every month. People with diabetes are fortunate in the sense that they qualify for free prescriptions, but I really don't see why this should extend to a very costly intervention for which there is a lack of supporting evidence. You do not need bg testing to see how foods will affect your bg levels. We already know what foods will do this without testing - carbohydrates. Evidence does show that the best way to manage T2 diabetes on diet/metformin is to limit your carbohydrate intake (and in general eat healthily), participate in moderate physical activity, and have regular HbA1c tests. The carbohydrate content of foods is easily obtainable, if you aim for 40 to 50 grams of carbs with each meal, with maybe 10 to 20 gram carb snacks either side, this is a good basic starting point for most. If after so many months a sensible diet and some moderate exercise has not brought your HbA1c down then there would be justification to use bg testing to improve control. But blanket prescribing for every single person with T2 diabetes is unjustifiable and unsustainable. on the issue of hypoglycaemia, of course people who are at risk of hypos should without question have access to bg testing, but T2 on diet/metformin do not fall into this category. I am not saying it is impossible to suffer with hypoglycaemia on diet/metformin, but it is rare. As for hyperglycaemia, again, this can be prevented with sensible carbohydrate intake, and the odd high blood sugar is not harmful. All the evidence shows that it is persistent hyperglycaemia, evident from continually poor HbA1c results, over a number of years, that contributes to the serious complications associated with T2 diabetes. I do feel that in an ideal world it would be great if everyone with diabetes could test their bg levels, as people clearly feel it helps them, but in a world where the NHS restricts proven drugs for cancer patients because it "only adds a few weeks or months onto their lives" then a reality check is needed, blanket bg testing is just not going to happen, not because the NHS has it in for diabetics, but because there simply isn't the money for an intervention with no supporting evidence. My family is blighted by T2 diabetes and we often discuss the issue of bg testing, and when I have suggested buying the strips if it is felt to be so important for their health, paying 20 pounds a month, the issue of being unable to afford it inevitably comes up, yet they all pay around 100 quid a month for their sky tv packages! If and when the evidence becomes available that bg testing is an essential part of the management for all T2 diabetes it should be fully supported, as it is for now, it is a preference, not a need, and therefore must be funded from your own pocket.
Hello, well well Katiek, what a dictatorial rant. Do I take it you are in the nhs, or have money in your pocket??.
Well let me say this, I do not have any spare money sitting around, and as diabetics don't pay for their prescriptions, then testing is a part of the treatment. Let me ask, do potatoes have the carb rating on them?, how are you meant to gauge the ratings for each food?
3 meals and 2 snacks? you sound like the dietician, who say these things, and not very good for good control, too many carbs make control difficult, I have found.
The nhs is being strangled by the tories, they love sitting on their piles in the bank, rich hate spending money on things for the ordinary people.
I have been fortunate that I have had testing kits, strips on repeat along with the lancets.

The nhs is top heavy with money grabbing management, who do not contribute any medical expertise to the hospital that pays the wages, The people need to demand that all these bums on seats, that do not have the qualifications then they could always go on the jsa, or something that pays less.
If people have the sky network, then this is their choice and nobody should criticise them, after all it is the full entertainment they use, especially as they may not go out, drink or smoke.

With lots of people being removed from the esa and even dla/pips where are they meant to get the money from?. So now as well as the heat/eat dilemma, there will be the eat/test dilemma to face.
And lets not forget that there is a small thing called food, how far are people meant to stretch their money. And not forgetting the other stuff in life.
 
Katie, I think you are running into the age old problem with evidence based medicine and in particular diabetes.

Evidence looks at a large population and applies a statistical distribution. As soon as you get into the nitty gritty with individuals, they fall somewhere on that distribution curve and those who care find out that while the evidence says one thing, due to its statistical nature it isn't necessarily applicable in all cases. The joy of statistics based medicine.

I'm not saying there is a better way to do it but it does mean that for those who are able to identify contr-indications, someone presenting the evidence as being hard and fast will inflame passion. As with all statistical analysis, there are always exceptions and there can be many.
 
This man got test strips without any problems. When I hear that it is all about money, I read this post. that I made last year.

Anyone remember when one of our members was trying to get a petition up for test strips in light of the fact that the Chief of the NHS had recently been diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes?

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/petition-to-david-nicholson.44393/page-2

Individual forum members e-mailed him with little success and the petition did not get the numbers that were hoped for.

It has been announced that he will be retiring soon and he has said that it was a matter of profound regret that the NHS was letting down so many sick and elderly people, as he announced his retirement with a £2 million pound pension pot.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/h...-Sir-David-Nicholsons-reward-for-failure.html

He was in charge when the Mid Staffs Hospital scandal erupted.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-20965469

He has recently been named as having enjoyed overpriced hotels, travel and food at the expense of the NHS. He was not alone in this, they all had a jolly good time at the taxpayer's expense.
.
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...-on-hotels-fine-dining-and-taxis-9359381.html

He has recently written an article for Diabetes Uk detailing how he has got his diabetes under control. This would include testing for him so when your GP refuses you test strips or an expensive medication, just think of how this man has behaved. He was in charge of the NHS.

http://diabetes.org.uk/About_us/New...fe-changing/diabetes-education-life-changing/
 
This man got test strips without any problems. When I hear that it is all about money, I read this post. that I made last year.

Anyone remember when one of our members was trying to get a petition up for test strips in light of the fact that the Chief of the NHS had recently been diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes?

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/petition-to-david-nicholson.44393/page-2

Individual forum members e-mailed him with little success and the petition did not get the numbers that were hoped for.

It has been announced that he will be retiring soon and he has said that it was a matter of profound regret that the NHS was letting down so many sick and elderly people, as he announced his retirement with a £2 million pound pension pot.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/h...-Sir-David-Nicholsons-reward-for-failure.html

He was in charge when the Mid Staffs Hospital scandal erupted.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-20965469

He has recently been named as having enjoyed overpriced hotels, travel and food at the expense of the NHS. He was not alone in this, they all had a jolly good time at the taxpayer's expense.
.
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...-on-hotels-fine-dining-and-taxis-9359381.html

He has recently written an article for Diabetes Uk detailing how he has got his diabetes under control. This would include testing for him so when your GP refuses you test strips or an expensive medication, just think of how this man has behaved. He was in charge of the NHS.

http://diabetes.org.uk/About_us/New...fe-changing/diabetes-education-life-changing/

Sickening!
 
phil is that an actual diabetes nurse that told you you didnt need to increase your metformin dose, or a practice nurse? The therapeutic dose of metformin is 2 grams, it doesn't work like other tablets where you increase or decrease according to blood sugars. Unless there are issues with tolerance all the evidence (sorry to mention that pesky evidence again!) says that metformin should be taken at the therapeutic dose of 2g.

How does one's doctor determine how much Metformin to prescribe at diagnosis? Anyone know? I thought it was completely based on Hba1c.
 
Hi katiek you seem to be getting a bit of a rough ride here and perhaps if I may through some light on why.

You mention several times in your posts the word "evidence" and how you are guided by it but I wonder what evidence you are looking at? Are you looking at the evidenced based on all T2 diabetics because if you are you will know that a large percentage are badly controlled and this percentage may well unfortunately progress to more medication and some would almost certainly benefit from your all you have to do is eat 40/50g carbs a meal statement.

But your thinking is flawed and here are a few reasons why I say that. Firstly every diabetics condition is different we all have different levels of insulin resistance and pancreatic function so some might be fine restricting carbs to 40/50g per meal however some may find this level unacceptable and end up with high bg levels which would mean an out of range HbA1c whenever that is tested.

Secondly not all carbs are equal the carbs in white bread for instance will be too fast acting for the vast majority of T2's to eat in anything more than say a quarter slice, the carbs are similar in wholemeal bread too but the carbs in whole GRAIN breads are generally much slower acting (Lower GI) so many T2's will be able to mange a two slice sandwich without any major spikes in blood glucose levels, of course there will be some who are unable even to eat wholegrain bread without spiking the bg levels.

Thirdly portion control is key to good diabetic control and only by testing every carbohydrate in combination with other foods and keeping a food/test results diary can a T2 diabetic manage to gain the information as to what carbs can be eaten in what portion size, there is no one size fits all. Why should anyone be restricted to x number of carbs per meal when they could eat y number.

Also there are many other factors to bring into this equation, by mixing a small amount of a high GI food with a large amount of a medium or low GI food the overall GI of that meal can be reduced, again without testing this is impossible to determine as we are all different. Are you aware for instance that adding vinegar to chips will make them have less effect on blood glucose levels? No of course you arent because you are not diabetic and have never had to live with the condition.

I was diagnosed 6 years ago with bg levels of 29 mmol/L and an Hba1c of 12.6% I was placed straight on the max level of metformin and insulin MDI treatment, I dieted hard for just under a year and tested every single combination of foods that I ate and not only did I lose 4 stone (56lb) but I weaned myself off insulin. Over the last 5 years I have lost another stone in weight and have reduced my metformin to just two x 500mg per day. I could not have achieved this through guess work alone. My Gp saw what I was doing was working and after I showed him my log book and food diary he was happy to allow me to continue having prescribed test strips after I came off insulin. Now 6 years down the line I make do with one box of test trips per year (approx) as I only need to test when I am unwell or once or twice a month just to confirm I am on top of things.

So this is why the members here who are well controlled are being somewhat aggressive towards you, we know what we need to do to keep our bg levels in range and that is to test every combination of food and to reduce the carb portions till they are right for us as individuals.

Perhaps if you looked at the "evidence" of well controlled diabetics rather than the very poor overall statistics you might gain a better picture as to what needs to be done by NICE and NHS England ie prescribed test strips at least for the first year after diagnoses and better diet advise. And who knows, you might even change your mind as are many GPs and other health professionals are doing now.




Edited several times for spelling and grammatical errors.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
A lot of people have asked what evidence?
If people want to read it for themselves then here it is
First a link that summarises the evidence that the NHS use when deciding the policy on test strip allocation.
I suspect the HTA report mentioned carries a lot of weight since it was commissioned by the dept of health
http://www.npc.nhs.uk/rapidreview/?p=2534
http://www.journalslibrary.nihr.ac.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0017/65303/FullReport-hta14120.pdf

(NB , I'I'm not arguing that they are right but I would point out that many other countries have also restricted their prescription in recent years for exactly the same reasons as the NHS)
 
I think the most damning statement is on the front page. SBMG may only lead to better glycaemic control in the context of appropriate education of users and healthcare professionals.
 
@katiek - I've read what @Scouser58 described as a "dictatorial rant" and @Sid Bonkers thoughts on why you got a rough ride.

There's nothing wrong with what you are saying but how people read into it. Ignore the flak you get back. You are correct, in an ideal World everyone would have a meter and test strips on prescription. In the real World, the NHS cannot afford it and where it ranks on their spending priorities is anyone's guess.

Regarding evidence – my opinion is that no one should discount the success stories and evidence of people who have used a meter and obtained control of their Hba1c as a result. This is, in my opinion, an absolute no brainer – arming yourself with the knowledge of what does what to your BG levels is by far and away the greatest tool anyone can have in combatting diabetes. There’s no argument to be had as far as I’m concerned.

This forum today has 131,104 members. In 2011 the UK had 2.9M diabetics, 2.61M with T2. Assuming this forum had a similar rate of 90% T2’s (likely to be lower as there will be non-diabetics too) then you’re looking at somewhere in the region of 4% of the T2 population. I believe the members of this forum will be amongst the most proactive when it comes to controlling and learning about their condition and at 4% I’d say this represents a decent sample size.

However, and unfortunately, the studies that are done are not done exclusively with members of this forum!!

I personally believe that the NHS, from top to bottom, would not fundamentally argue that testing would not benefit everyone. I think it is a case of hiding behind there being no “firm evidence” due to the cost involved in providing everyone with the ability to test. I cannot disagree with @katiek though, it is horrid that we have cancer drugs which are not being provided because the cost to increased life expectancy is not beneficial. That does put things in a bit of perspective but you can’t rank ailments, it’s not fair. I have always held onto the fact that I am lucky to have T1 as it can be controlled and managed but in reality, in my own World, it’s bloody awful!

The key thing to testing being available is cost. I think it’s high time that the Government took some control of the companies producing medication, medical equipment etc and brought the cost down. I think no one would disagree that huge profits can be made on fashion accessories, which are a luxury item, but not on life saving equipment/supplies. We all deserve the best quality of life we can get and pay for in our taxes.
 
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