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The Cure for Type 2 Diabetes

Discussion in 'Diabetes Soapbox - Have Your Say' started by carefix, Jan 2, 2008.

  1. Angeleyes

    Angeleyes · Well-Known Member

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    While some of you pontificate, the fact is a hypo or hypoglycaemia is just the medical term for 'low blood sugar.' It does not have to be a medical emergency, nor medication induced.

    It is STILL a hypo. Get used to the term it has been in use for many years and will no doubt continue to do so. There are mild, moderate and severe hypos, each individual will usually know which once they see how they feel. We don't need a new definition, just people to read and understand the current one. That might help!

    It's threads and discussions like this that help to better educate all diabetics, even those with a little 'mileage' under their belts! Providing they are prepared to listen as well. Nice talking to you all.
    :)

    borofergie
    You could try doing your own research and reading, like I had to. Maybe tomorrow, I really think I need to top up my blood sugar level, its dropped down to almost 4.3. I suppose that's what you would call a 'false hypo'? My level rarely goes over 7 so I have to be careful.
     
  2. Angeleyes

    Angeleyes · Well-Known Member

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    Sure, here's one from the Diabetes.co.uk site.

    http://www.diabetes.co.uk/diabetes-and- ... aemia.html

    Here is another from an NHS site, easily found with a bit of research.

    http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/hypoglycae ... ction.aspx

    There's more, but I'm sure you get the drift? :wink: Basically the level was set at 3.88, then rounded up to 3.9, this was then again rounded up to 4 mmol/l as it is an easier number to remember, hence the phrase '4 is the floor.' Now if you and others want to ignore that or put your own spin on it, fine by me. Lets stick to facts shall we?
     
  3. chocoholicnomore

    chocoholicnomore Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I have found all the comments from today really interesting to say the least.
    I understand what you are saying angeleyes. However, from a newbie point of view I think you are over dramatising it.
    I totally agree with Grazer and Borofergie. Since I joined this forum their advice and help has been great.
    When I was diagnosed I was immediately prescribed 800mg metformin 3 times a day. Two days later, whilst driving, I felt odd i.e. shaky, couldn't concentrate, impulse to eat, nervous and sweating. The weather conditions were bad so I blamed them. However, when I came home, for some reason I tested and my BG was 3.2. At this point I didn't know enough about diabetes and I panicked-ate a full bar of chocolate! (then went to doctor who reduced my dosage)
    My point is that, although (medically) under 4 is considered a hypo, there is no need for a T2 to be terrified of it. ( I had imagined having to be rushed into hospital etc)
    I think if I had been reading angeleyes comments in September instead of now I would be really alarmed.
    It was due to Grazer and Borofergie's common sense approach and good advice that I now feel much better about my BG control. Also, their explanation that my "hypo" was caused because I had been running on really high BG levels for a while and reduced the levels drastically within a few days, made alot more sense.
    I just want to make sure that any newly diagnosed diabetics who are reading this thread do not get unduly alarmed by it's content.
    And I also want to re-iterate that the advice given in this forum is really very good and most of the people are friendly and helpful.
     
  4. Grazer

    Grazer · Well-Known Member

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    Good bedside manner!
    We all know what the medical terms mean, it's the context in which they're used which is misleading to new diabetics. like you referring to the "dangers" of hypos to T2s on diet only when they can only ever be "mild" for those people to use your terminology.

    Was that humour? Or boasting to Borofergie? Not your strong suit. Wasn't it you talking about bad messages to give new diabetics?

    Your links in your answer to borofergie don't really prove your point do they. The diabetes uk link is simply talking about what a hypo is, not who might get it or how badly. Your other link actually says
    "Hypoglycaemia is most commonly associated with diabetes, and mainly occurs if someone with diabetes takes too much insulin, misses a meal, or exercises too hard. Some diabetes treatments, such as certain tablets, can also cause hypoglycaemia.
    Again, it doesn't talk about type 2's as such, and in fact points out that it's INSULIN, and only CERTAIN tablets that normally cause it. Once again, it's the DEGREE of just how low the blood sugar is that is important. All the "pontificators" you refer to so eloquently understand that everyone can get low blood sugar, and have said so, and as you said, there are different levels of hypo from mild to severe; the point you seem to struggle to understand is that the dangerous hypos, as Pneu summarised well, are those associated with insulin use.
     
  5. ladybird64

    ladybird64 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I honestly don't want to get into an argument on this but feel compelled to comment on what I have just read.

    Angeleyes, I have no opinions one way or another but..that info given by the NHS site is daft. Although it states diabetes meds, look at the information given regarding how to recognise and especially how to treat hypos.

    Although they use the blanket term diabetes, they are obviously referring to type 1's..how many of us are given meters to test as type 2's? I truthfully wonder how many DSN's or diabetes consultants would give this information out to their type 2 patients but this is supposedly a NHS site. If I'm incorrect, I'll happily admit I'm wrong but I have never, and I mean never, heard of a type 2 being given a warning on what they should do if their bg drops too low and advised to take glucose tablets etc. If anyone has any experience of it, I would love to hear it.

    In most cases, hypoglycaemia can be self-treated when you recognise the symptoms of a hypo. If there is an underlying condition causing regular hypos, this will need to be diagnosed and treated.

    Treating an episode of hypoglycaemia
    The immediate treatment for a hypo is to have some sugary food or drink to end the attack.

    For example, try:

    •a glass of fruit juice (that contains sugar) or Lucozade
    •a few sugar lumps
    •a handful of sweets
    •three or more glucose tablets
    •a cup of milk
    •half a cup of non-diet soft drink
    After having something sugary, you should have a longer-acting carbohydrate food, such as a few biscuits, a cereal bar, a piece of fruit or a sandwich.

    You should measure your blood sugar again 15 minutes later and if it is still too low (below 4 mmol), then have some more sugary food or drink and test it again in another 15 minutes.

    If you cannot treat your hypo because it is more severe, someone else can help you by applying Glucogel (or honey, treacle or jam) to the inside of your cheeks and gently massaging the outside of your cheeks. It may take 10-15 minutes before you feel better.

    If you are having several episodes of hypoglycaemia a week you should contact your GP to find out the underlying cause. You may need your medication adjusted, or there may be another condition causing hypoglycaemia that needs treating.

    If a person is unconscious
    If a person is already unconscious due to a severe hypo, they need to be put into the recovery position and given an injection of the hormone glucagon, which raises the blood glucose level.

    The injection is best done by a friend or family member who knows what they are doing, or a trained healthcare professional.

    If there is no-one trained to give the injection, call 999 for an ambulance immediately. Never try to put food or drink into the mouth of someone who is unconscious, as they could choke.
     
  6. Grazer

    Grazer · Well-Known Member

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    Good post Choco. A good illustration of the fact that we are here to give a helping hand to each other, with "newbies" (too much CSI !) hopefully getting info that doesn't need to be following strict definitions of terminology, but getting the right message across. In fact, sometimes it's best for new people to be given info that might not be strictly scientifically correct if it helps to explain things simply and help them to understand the key issue. First rule of training was always K.I.S.S - Keep It Simple, Stupid! That's why it's annoying when people pick you up on little things you're fully aware off to show off there own knowledge, when you're trying to get a point across simply.

    Sorry, nearly missed your post Ladsybird. Good points all.
     
  7. Angeleyes

    Angeleyes · Well-Known Member

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    Grazer
    You really are something else. What makes you think I'm boasting when I tell someone my level rarely goes over 7.

    I will spell it out for you, NOBODY but you is talking about a DANGEROUS hypo, just the use of the word hypo in it's correct context. Something you sadly seem to be having difficulty understanding. If it's below 4 mmol/l then it IS a hypo whatever you might think, simple really.

    I have read posts on this forum where people have had really low blood sugar levels and it has had serious conxequences. One of the posters was a type 2, diet only, had been working all day with little or no food. Hew was up a ladder and felt dizzy, he fell landed akwardly and broke his wrist. Now that could be termed dangerous, the consequence of what turned out to be low blood sugar levels. Nobody has said they will die, just that they can and do have effects, See bystanders post about driving and operating machinery. Or do you just consider that to be 'unfortunate.'

    As I said, you and others can believe what you wish, however putting your own spin on things is really not very helpful to any diabetics, is it! I suppose you can lead a horse to water as they say, well the rest should be apparent.
     

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  8. chocoholicnomore

    chocoholicnomore Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Couldn't agree with you more !!!!!!
     
  9. Sid Bonkers

    Sid Bonkers Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Ladybird the chances of a T2 diabetic who is diet or diet and metformin controlled is very small, although not impossible it is almost unheard of to have a real hypo episode unless you are using insulin or Glic, even for glic users there natural defences (liver dump) would almost always save there going too low, so please dont worry about hypos.

    Having experienced hypos when I was using insulin I can say that 100% for me personally I no longer have to worry as I have never had a hypo since stopping the insulin treatment, I may have gone a bit low on occasion and maybe even felt a bit light headed but I can assure you these feelings are nothing like an insulin induced hypo.

    Best not to even think about hypos unless you are about to start insulin treatment. :D
     
  10. bystander

    bystander · Member

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    oh dear I see this is still running.
    Ladybird. I am a type 2 diet only, I have a meter and prescribed test strips because I proved to the doctor I wished to be very active in my own treatment. I also had all the warnings on hypos. Perhaps you have a not very good clinic there, mine is excellent!

    It is always best to start out on a simple knowledge base but then, when understanding is there to expand and add in more complex knowledge, this is the essence of expanding our knowledge base.
    I find it difficult to read on here that obviously very experienced diabetics are being harangued because of their more extensive knowledge base and their willingness to share it with less experienced diabetics. I thought that was what a support forum was all about.
     
  11. Grazer

    Grazer · Well-Known Member

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    So in other words, nothing to do with his diabetes. Working all day, no food, up a ladder and fell. Just the point we're all making.
     
  12. bystander

    bystander · Member

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    Grazer, why must you be so nasty to people?
    That last illustration was exactly what can happen with low blood sugar as can a road accident or accident with anything that requires consentration. Diabetes is not a stand alone thing it affects every part of our lives. To say that the low blood sugar did not cause the accident is wrong.
     
  13. chocoholicnomore

    chocoholicnomore Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Angeleyes

    Just out of curiosity, can you tell us whether you are T1 or T2, what meds are you on and have you ever had any hypos?

    Just wondering if you are talking from experience or scientifically/medically.
     
  14. Grazer

    Grazer · Well-Known Member

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    Fact is, I'm agreeing the low sugar DID cause the accident, but that it's got nothing to do with wether the individual is T2 or not. Anyone up a ladder in those conditions, working hard with no food, can get low blood sugar, diabetic or not. T2 diabetes on diet only causes us to have high sugar levels; it doesn't in itself give us low blood sugar. External factors like not eating can, as they can with non diabetics.
     
  15. Angeleyes

    Angeleyes · Well-Known Member

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    Hi.
    Glad to oblige when the question is asked so politely. :D

    I am a type 2 of over 15 yrs diagnosis, 2 metformin once daily and yes, I have experienced several hypos, as low as 2.3 at one time, mainly due to eating very low carb and also too much exercise sometimes. I do speak from experience and I am also not in the habit of making things up. I also have researched extensively over several years and consider myself experienced in many aspects of diabetes control.
     
  16. bystander

    bystander · Member

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    Grazer,diabetes is all about a lack of regulation in the way our bodies cope with glucose so as well as high blood sugars we can also have low blood sugars because of many factors including lack of food,exercise, stress and many other things. You cannot put diabetes in a box, as it is in itself dependant on many factors. I see that you have only been diagnosed for a year so have not presumably yet had all the things that diabetes can throw at you. There are many experienced diabetics on here who have had the experiences that you have not had.
     
  17. chocoholicnomore

    chocoholicnomore Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Angeleyes

    I am new to diabetes with very little experience but does your response not just confirm what Grazer has been saying i.e. your bg level went low because you hadn't eaten enough and did too much exercise. In those circumstances, would that not have happened whether you were diabetic or not?
     
  18. Angeleyes

    Angeleyes · Well-Known Member

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    First off it is correct that anybody even a non diabetic can have low blood sugar levels however they may be caused. The non diabetic will usually 'liver dump' at this point and blood sugar levels rise fairly quickly back to normal. A type 2 even on diet only or metformin can also have low blood sugar levels and should also 'liver dump', however the response may not be as quick as a non diabetic, therefore it is incumbent on the diabetic to try to stay away from levels around the 4 mmol/l and if needed to treat the levels with small amounts of glucose until such time as they are back to normal.

    My difference with grazer is that he does not accept the medical definition of a hypo which I have expanded on previously. It isn't my opinion it is just a plain and simple fact, a medical fact. That is very confusing to anyone reading here, they are virtually been told that the medics are wrong, it is nothing to worry about and to forget all about it. Not quite so simple.
     
  19. chocoholicnomore

    chocoholicnomore Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    But surely if it was that important to medics then testing equipment would be routinely prescibed to T2s on diet/metformin.
    Basically, can we have a hypo that needs medical intervention? If not, then surely grazer is right and we needn't worry about it. I think we have enough to worry about without adding anything unnecessarily.
     
  20. Grazer

    Grazer · Well-Known Member

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    Bystander, my first aim always is to help with my posts, not be confrontational, so I don't want to enter into a dispute with you. However, this forum has showed me that length of time a person has had diabetes is not a good guide to their knowledge of it. We have "newbies" to the forum who have had diabetes for years but don't even understand the effect of carbs on BGs. We have others recently diagnosed who understand everything from the operation of the Islets of Langerhan to the difference between first and second phase insulin response. It's not the time, it's the amount the individual has learned in that time. Fact is, WE can cause low blood sugar by exercising without eating, etc, diabetes as an illness doesn't if you're on diet only. Diabetes T2 is about the bodies inability to produce enough insulin, or use it properly, or both. This means sugar can't be taken out of the blood adequately do our sugar levels are too high. It DOESN'T make it go too low - we do that, either by the meds we take or the lack of food. If we're not on meds, it's lack of food which applies equally to non diabetics.
     
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