The Diabetes epidemic

[cold ethyl]

I'm sure you'll get there. I've found that thread a great help as I really don't like exercise much, both because it's hard work and it triggers my anxiety levels, but knowing that others are trying their best has meant I've done the bloomin 30 minutes every day, even If I've had to drag myself up out of the chair kicking and screaming!

 

[phoenix]

If you do a search just looking at the last couple of years then you will find Roy Taylor's research has spawned a lot of other small studies on VLCD measuring different parameters most seemingly successful but none are long term.

If you look further back you can find similar results (ie improvement of metabolic function) in studies from the seventies and eighties. So for example:
from 1981

This study demonstrates that short-term treatment with a very-low-calorie diet in both obese diabetic and nondiabetic subjects results in: (1) safe and effective weight loss associated with the normalization of elevated glucose and lipid levels

,
http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/35/2/155.short

Why then was this not followed up, why did these diets fall out of favour?
Unfortunately it seems that some, but not all longer term studies did show weight regain,
Also, I suspect that researchers were scared away since there were also deaths in the US associated with the unsupervised use of VLCD diets*
Dr Taylor's intervention was medically supervised. It used a formula which was nutritionally 'complete' ( I suspect much better than those available forty years ago.) We have yet to see the long term effects.

The diets associated with fatal outcomes seem to have been related to people using the diets for longer periods, .people who were not very overweight, (some weren't overweight at all), people who were unsupervised and also and perhaps most importantly products such as the last chance diet that were made from very poor quality , incomplete protein , and without adequate vitamin and mineral supplementation.
http://www.dietsinreview.com/diets/last-chance-diet/
It does worry me that I've seen some people try this method on their own, using any shakes that they can find , some not marketed as complete meal replacements and others that have absolutely no guarantee that they have a full compliment of nutrients.

 

[Jamrox]

There is the case of a normal weight person who got returned to normal BG levels after 11 days on the Newcastle Diet and wouldn't surprise me if there are more unreported cases. According to Prof Taylor's theory, the cause is an individual visceral fat threshold and it varies widely between individuals - the "Skinny on the Outside, Fat on the Inside" scenario:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/health/420227/Man-cures-his-diabetes-in-11-days-with-starvation-diet

It would be interesting if a study of the ND was done on normal weight people as well.

I think you have to do what works best for you as no one else knows what else is going on in your life. I couldn't stick to the ND and know that I'd go off rails very quickly and end up doing more damage in a stupid self-sabotaging backlash. Similarly, while I happy with the LC bit of LCHF, I tend to low to moderate fat through taste and not needing any more calories than necessary. I think there's a world of difference between eating the fat on your steak and drinking your coffee with coconut oil, or butter in it- if you didn't do that before, why start? I think that for me , the best diet in the short term is one which eliminates spuds, rice etc but allows me a decent amount of good real foods with some fat to help shift the weight in a sustainable for me way. Long term, I'd hope to be able to have the odd not so low carb day within reason. best of luck to everyone who has had to embark on this journey, whatever route they take to the destination.

I agree with everything you say.

Sent from the Diabetes Forum App

 

[Pipp]

If you do a search just looking at the last couple of years then you will find Roy Taylor's research has spawned a lot of other small studies on VLCD measuring different parameters most seemingly successful but none are long term.

If you look further back you can find similar results (ie improvement of metabolic function) in studies from the seventies and eighties. So for example:
from 1981
,
http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/35/2/155.short

Why then was this not followed up, why did these diets fall out of favour?
Unfortunately it seems that some, but not all longer term studies did show weight regain,
Also, I suspect that researchers were scared away since there were also deaths in the US associated with the unsupervised use of VLCD diets*
Dr Taylor's intervention was medically supervised. It used a formula which was nutritionally 'complete' ( I suspect much better than those available forty years ago.) We have yet to see the long term effects.

The diets associated with fatal outcomes seem to have been related to people using the diets for longer periods, .people who were not very overweight, (some weren't overweight at all), people who were unsupervised and also and perhaps most importantly products such as the last chance diet that were made from very poor quality , incomplete poor quality protein , and without adequate vitamin and mineral supplementation.
http://www.dietsinreview.com/diets/last-chance-diet/
It does worry me that I've seen some people try this method on their own, using any shakes that they can find , some not marketed as complete meal replacements and others that have absolutely no guarantee that they have a full compliment of nutrients.

Which is why I made sure that I was doing Newcastle with the full support of my GP, nurse and pharmacy. I was monitored on a weekly basis, weight, blood and ketones in urine, with the instruction to test BG myself several times a day and report any high or too low levels.
It is not promoted as a diet for long term use. With any diet regime you will get people who will take it to extremes. The food replacement products I used were only available from a pharmacy, and only when GP. Had approved it.
There are commercially available food replacement products which are part of a very profitable diet industry though.

 

[zand]

I was foolish and didn't get the support of my GP because I never got any support from him when I had continuous chest infections for 7 months, so I didn't expect things to be any different with asking for help with a diet. I suppose the reason I react badly to this subject is that I would have dearly loved to do have done the ND properly.

 

[phoenix]

Pipp, I have no doubt that for some people this type of intervention will be successful , you went about it the right way.

 

[Pipp]

Pipp, I have no doubt that for some people this type of intervention will be successful , you went about it the right way.

Thank you, and by going about it the right way, i.e. following instructions to the letter, and never once eating anything but the meal replacement products, I have achieved the objective.
I make no apology for repeating:
Within days my blood glucose levels returned to a non-diabetic state, and have remained so for almost 3 years.

 

[aqualung]

Pipp what do you eat (or not!) to keep your levels non diabetic?

 

[Pipp]

Pipp what do you eat (or not!) to keep your levels non diabetic?

since successfully completing Newcastle diet 3 Years ago, which got BG levels normal, I eat what would be regarded as a 'normal' diet. I avoid anything sweet, but don't really have a sweet tooth. Keep the 'good carbs' (wholemeal bread, and pasta, brown rice, spuds) to a very small amount maybe twice a week. I have recently started to avoid breakfast cereals, I always had bran flakes or Oatibix, as I noticed with any carbs I was getting headaches and fluid retention. I have lots of veg, fresh, raw, soups, salads, at least half of food intake, is veg, mushrooms make a good breakfast, eggs, small amounts of cheese, skimmed milk, yogurt, lean meat, fish, lentils and beans, Fruit, about 3 servings a day, from apples, pears, bananas, berries, grapes, and lemons, small amount of nuts and seeds. Peppermint tea, lemon and ginger tea, and coffee. Drink lots of water too. I think that is about it.

At social occasions where food and drink is involved, I make sure I am not hungry, by having some veg or soup before I go out. Then eat small portions of the food on offer, don't have starter or pud, and because I have to drive only drink mineral water. I do like a beer or glass of wine at home, but this is only a couple of times a month.

I am no saint though. Recently, had gained some weight back after having two major operations and being immobile and dependent on others for catering. I tried Newcastle diet for a few weeks, shed some weight, then had a rethink. Newcastle diet was useful for getting control of BG initially, but BG was no longer my issue, so returned to way of eating that is suitable, and sustainable. Also with my recovery from surgery it is now possible to increase exercise.

I almost forgot to mention, the current diet is in addition to wanting to maintain good BG. Control, primarily to lose weight. After Newcastle diet I was able to eat anything, in moderation, without raising BG to diabetic levels. Alas, the same cannot be said for raising weight.

 

[aqualung]

Thank you for that Pipp. That is amazing and if you are able to eat normal healthy food I would call that a cure. I must admit I didn't know anything about the Newcastle Diet and am impressed by the results. Well done on your success.

 

[Pipp]

Thank you aqualung

The fact that you, and many others, including medical professionals have not heard of the Newcastle diet is the main reason why I keep going on about it in various threads on the forum. I expect some people are fed up of my posts about it, but I have no other agenda than to inform others and give people the opportunity to make up their own minds.

I think I too would find it hard to believe if I had not experienced it myself. I am glad I found out about it, got the medical support, (which wasn't easy) and then committed myself to following the rules to the letter. That was difficult for me too, as I am, by default, a rebel. Perhaps I was rebelling against the usual NHS protocol , as I had tried that, and it had only made things worse.

I have been somewhat dismayed by the cynicism from some people on the forum. I do hope that it will not put people off trying it, if they think it is for them. Though I would emphasise the importance of getting GP involved and ensuring that all the health checks are carried out during the food replacement period.

Pipp

 

[Pipp]

Guy who did Newcastle diet now chowing on white rice.

Well why not? He has reversed his T2, so rice should not be a problem.

 

[Pipp]

Ah well.. hands up. I missed the start.

So you missed the start, and turned off 8 mins after the start? So you base your opinion on 5 mins or so of the programme?

 

[AndyS]

So you missed the start, and turned off 8 mins after the start? So you base your opinion on 5 mins or so of the programme?

Yup. I will freely admit that I am quite a judgemental person. But I will admit I came at it with very low expectations and fully expected the angle they were aiming for. I prefer hard facts as opposed to wishy washy pseudo science probability scales.

If people went out and got tested off the back off it and go an early diagnosis then kudos to the producers and well done, though for me personally it had zero value. Sorry.

 

[Pipp]

And it may be correct if they diagnosed it soon enough (or whilst still pre-diabetic. However the NHS don't do spend to save (except for vaccinations)

I did Newcastle six years after T2 diagnosis. My 'reversal' has been almost 3 years now.

 

[Bluetit1802]

Yup. I will freely admit that I am quite a judgemental person. But I will admit I came at it with very low expectations and fully expected the angle they were aiming for. I prefer hard facts as opposed to wishy washy pseudo science probability scales.

If people went out and got tested off the back off it and go an early diagnosis then kudos to the producers and well done, though for me personally it had zero value. Sorry.

It wasn't about Type 1 diabetes. It was about the type 2 epidemic. It wasn't even aimed at any diabetics themselves, but at those who are heading that way without knowing.

 

[zand]

I didn't watch the programme because it doesn't have any relevance to me now, I tried so hard to sort my weight and diet out while I was prediabetic and failed. I wish more details had been given out a few years back so that I could have tried it properly then. If I were prediabetic now I would try the ND.

 

[AndyS]

It wasn't about Type 1 diabetes. It was about the type 2 epidemic. It wasn't even aimed at any diabetics themselves, but at those who are heading that way without knowing.

Understood in which case I suspect that it probably hit the mark. I just feet that the media has a tendency to overly sensationalise (and yes I know it is a serious issue) but my concern is that more people are likely to start to switch off to it because of this trend.

Perhaps some one or two less sensational, more factual programs which are also showing that "hey guess what, it's NOT a death sentence" would not be a bad idea. Show people through the process, show the success stories we see on the forum quite a lot. That way we avoid people just turning over to another channel or being too afraid to go and do something about some symptoms they are seeing in themselves or a loved one.

But like I said, I am quite judgemental and opinionated on certain things and I will happily own up and take my lumps.. but I appreciate and agree with your point

 

[Pipp]

I think something like the Newcastle diet might be useful to kick start a weight reduction plan but I'm sure the body would soon cling onto every calorie in one of those delicious shakes fearing that it would never see a proper meal again. You need to find a diet that you can stay on as a way of life and I can't see how a load of shakes and a few veg are a sustainable diet post weight loss. For good BS levels and weight maintenance you need to have learned what and how much you can eat....

Errr, the shakes most certainly are not delicious. They are definitely not the sort of grub you would want to be on for the rest of your life. So not for post weight loss. The food replacement products for Newcastle diet are to be used for massive calorie restriction, which results in weight loss. Newcastle does not advocate using them beyond the 8 week calorie restriction period.

 

[Pipp]

Good explanation Andrew, it's not difficult to understand why the Newcastle diet works.

No doubt that the Dietitians working on the ND will advise patients on a follow-up diet.

My follow up diet is mainly veg, lean protein and some fruits, nuts, cheese ,yogurt, fish. My BG is perfectly well controlled since I did Newcastle.

I do think some of the posters on this thread are making an assumption that anyone who has done Newcastle method had a really 'bad' diet beforehand. Isn't that the sort of stereotypical tabloid image of diabetics we all have to encounter and try to disprove all the time?