The Hidden Killer. Type 2 Diabetes.

I have just watched the programe. It seems we are all of the same opinion. God help those who are persueded to follow their dr advice. Well many Dr. Not all.
The programe horrified me. One patient said she was cured. My understanding is that you are not cured , just given another chance, providing you don't fall back to the old ways. If you do, you will be back where you started.

chalup said:

The metabolic dysfunction that results in becoming type 2 is what causes carb addiction and weight gain. Gaining weight is a SYMPTOM and like every other disease, not everyone has every symptom. You wouldn't tell someone with a broken leg to go jogging but they tell people with broken glucose metabolism to eat plenty of carbs and then blame them when they gain weight. I have not seen this show but it seems like it is yet another sensationalist, mainstream report with not much attempt at finding out what the research is actually saying now and not 20 years ago.

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Well, that's not the accepted version of the disease, but is a hypothesis without strong evidence as yet. There are diets that include high carbs that do reduce weight and blood glucose levels in diabetics quite quickly. (Though to be fair the diet was vegan and looked pretty dreadful to me:

Total volume of the Ma-Pi 2 diet consisted of 40–50% whole grains (rice, millet, and barley), 40–50% vegetables (carrots, kale, cabbage, broccoli, chicory, onions, red and white radish, and parsley), and 8–10% legumes (adzuki beans, chickpeas, lentils, and black beans); all foods derived from organic cultivations with no chemical additives. Gomasio (roasted ground sesame seeds with unrefined sea salt), fermented products (miso, tamari, and umeboshi), and seaweeds (kombu, wakame, and nori) were used as
complements of the diet’s nutritional value. Bancha tea (theine-free green tea) was the main source of liquid.
).

I watched the programme and indeed the only 'solution' they were talking about was the bariatric surgery, it was very poor quality. I wish we had the old BBC back when you could be proud of the quality of programme-making.

I have been watching the keto summit which is very well balanced and presenting all sides of the low carb debate and there is very strong evidence coming out. Hyperinsulinemia and insulin resistance is already present decades before diagnosis and before weight gain and high blood sugars. As I said, not everyone has all symptoms and this is true of any disease. The vast majority of overweight people do not have diabetes and lifestyle is definitely a factor but there is so much more going on. Low carb diets work primarily by lowering insulin levels and allowing body fat to be used as fuel . When insulin levels are too high it prevents body fat from being used and also shoves the excess glucose that the insulin resistant tissues can't use into the fat cells. This is why adding insulin when the body is already high causes weight gain with no change in diet. This is also why drugs like gliclazide that cause the pancreas to make more insulin also cause weight gain. We all know thin non-diabetics who eat much worse than we ever did and have no issues. That is because their glucose metabolism is not broken.

ickihun said:

Well if I was depressed before show, I am now!
Aimed to scare people into changing their diet but no details of which diet to change to. Thank god for these forums.
My son said "isnt that the type 2 you have mum?" As he looked horrified that his mum will get black feet and need her leg chopped off.
I've had to reasure him I'm looking after my health. Which I am.
So we should all have bariatric op. I'm still in 2 minds.
The nhs are panicking and ops are the solution. What if they have that wrong like they've had the diet over the years?

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A government sponsored programme to show the negatives? No mention of the many people managing it successfully, I turned off after 5 minutes ...

Just know you are a winner - anyone who takes an active part in the management of their condition is in my books

Lots of fat people don't have diabetes.

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That's what I told myself as well. Then last year at the weight of 27 stone I was told I am type 2.

Duncan57 said:

That's what I told myself as well. Then last year at the weight of 27 stone I was told I am type 2.

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Yes I do get your point but did anyone offer to test your insulin level to see if there were underlying causes? The underlying dysfunction drives the hunger and the carb addiction. Hunger is a basic biological drive, you can't ignore it for long. This is why low fat, low calorie diets almost never work in the long run. Add to that the official advice to eat high carb 6 times a day and you end up at 27 stone with diabetes. If you had been told 20 years ago that you had a metabolic problem and could prevent the weight and the diabetes by lowering your carb intake to moderate amounts you might not have ended up where you ended up. I have been on a diet my entire life and still ended up fat and diabetic. I have never been a sugar hound or an overeater but I certainly bought in to the high carb low fat eat lots of fruit and grains. I live in a very rural area and have always cooked well balanced veggie heavy meals at home and rarely did takeout and I dont drink alcohol or sugary drinks. Is diabetes my fault?

I thought the programme was pushing surgery as an immediate cure for diabetes. Anything that suggested otherwise must have ended up on the cutting room floor. It also suggested every diabetic will end up with horrendous complications.
The directors agenda would not have been served by pointing out that it's probably the six week diet on 800 calories (aka the Newcastle diet) that stops the condition in its tracks, and the bariatric surgery prevents patients from eating anything, including carbs, afterwards.
I was quite upset by the way they quoted the cost of every treatment, as if we should begrudge it to sick people. We don't count the cost of other conditions, do we?

VinnyJames said:

Seems the medical fraternity see bariatric surgery as the way forward. Probably true as low carbing takes a lot of discipline.

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I dont lose weight low carbing either. What if I have surgery and I dont lose weight? Will cost nhs even nore money as I will sue for bad advice.
Horror stories with bariatric surgery causing malnutrition and other types of diabetes. Misleading account. I feel.

My friend had bariatric surgery 15 years ago. He now suffers from all the effects of prolonged starvation, including dementia type brain damage. He is not 45 yet. The surgery is not reversible.
Ten years from now the doctors could be saying that bariatric surgery is a medical disaster.
People who cheerfully have bariatric surgery are like those who have cosmetic surgery. They are not taking on board all the risks.

jonbvn said:

A somewhat less sensational program was on before this on BBC1 Wales - Fat v Carbs with Jamie Owen. It should be available shortly on iplayer.

The program provided quite a balanced approach (IMHO). It certainly questioned the current NHS dietary guidelines. It was nice to see that after 3 weeks on LCHF the presenter's cholesterol was down and he had lost half a stone in weight.

I will post this in the low carb diet forum, since I think it adds value.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07xwstx

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I watched Panorama and was dismayed at its scaremongering ,negative , approach that seemed focused on adding fuel to the blame culture around T2D. I've just watched the above programme from BBC Wales and think we should all write to BBC and ask it to be shown next week in the Panorama slot, with more additional content on effects of his high fat diet on blood sugar levels. Then at least folk could see there are steps you can take to help yourself and all is not despair, amputation, early death.

Even during the first minute of watching this program the name Joseph Goebbels come to mind. This is a shocking attempt by the BBC to frighten and scare ordinary people into believing that if they don't try and burn off all the calories they eat and put themselves on a strict diet then they will end up with amputations and even death. What a load of ****. Different people have different metabolisms that will either burn off the calories that they eat or they won't. It is that plain and simple. I was diagnosed with Diabetes 16 years ago. I have managed it quite well since that time and still enjoy the odd choc bar or pudding. I believe the National Obesity Forum is quite correct as opposed to NHS England that a low carbohydrate diet i.e cutting down or cutting out on bread, potatoes, rice and pasta and having a high fat diet is far superior in controlling diabetes. I am appalled at the way in which Panorama depicts Type 2 Diabetes and suggests awful solutions such as stomach surgery as some kind of wonderful remedy. I wish I could contact the guy in the program and dissuade him from going through with it. Shame on you BBC

So, are they gonna give bariatric surgery to slim Type 2's as a prophylactic measure?

Just finished watching it on iPlayer. At one level it was good that diabetes was being discussed at peak viewing time. Against this there was ve the little positivity or hope. The entire message seemed to imply every T2 will lose their leg, kidney or have a heart attack. Well like many on here all I can say is "Give it your best shot Diabetes, because you ain't getting me without a fight!"

I don't want or need bariatric surgery, a wheelchair, dyalisis or insulin injections. Any one of those may be my future, but today LCHF has given me a life.

Tomorrow I will put a 30lb backpack on my back and hike 5 miles around a nature reserve (even though I have osteoarthritis in my knee). All this made possible because I chose to change my life. So, instead of running for a surgical solution maybe the NHS needs to invest in better education and more ongoing support to help those newly diagnosed.

Perhaps what we need is to offer those suffering hope, not panic them into submission!

I'm T1 and have pretty good control but I'll be honest that scared me. I know the consequences of poor control but actually seeing it happen made me shiver.

Dismayed and furious. Why were there no T2s on the programme who were managing their diabetes with some success? Why did they not look more deeply into the flawed diet advice being dished out?

I watched it, was interesting but it wasn"t what i thought. I did think it would be more about how we type 2"s can help ourselves

I was a bit disappointed. I found people opted for gastric surgery as an easy option to lose weight

Type1Lad said:

Sadly we all know what diabetes can do if you don't manage the condition to the best you can.

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They didn't really stress the BG management anywhere enough, it was just type II. Then they pick on a guy who was eating 4, FOUR! shredded wheat + cheerios for breakfast.

I feel especially sad because I was once told to consider bariatric surgery for weight loss not diabetes (even then my BG was fairly well controlled). I was never keen on the idea but when I attended the support group, pre surgery, I discovered that they were liquidising chocolate and ice cream to get their calorie intake up to 1200. I didn't eat chocolate or ice cream and I easily cut calories to 1200, so avoided surgery.

Both the woman and Mr Shredded Wheat had to cut their calorie intake to 1000, if they could manage that why bother with the surgery? It seems that a bypass as opposed to a band actually does more than restrict the volume of what they eat, it seems to reverse diabetes.

I think most type IIs on this forum have cut their carb intake to varying degrees and with varying degrees of effort, I think it's easier for some than it is for others. I can say that judging how my wife goes crazy if she doesn't have carbs, but then she's not diabetic.

Perhaps more money should be spent on finding ways of giving people bags of will power or better still, reversing the idea that we should all eat 1/3 of our calories in the form of carbs.

VinnyJames said:

I HAVE to watch this but I won't enjoy it that's for sure...

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I forced myself, but was worried in case it just made me angry. It did serve to remind me that the changes I've made to my lifestyle by not eating the carbs was and is the best thing I could do. Such a shame that our medical profession is stuck with the old idea that we MUST eat carbs for energy. As I explained to my GP, if there was so much petrol in you car that it was slopping about in the boot, would you buy more petrol?

I will post what i wrote on fb about it all

Diabetes in the media again. Let me tell you something the programme was aimed at T2 diabetes, not T1 diabetes. Yes, complications are scary but you can do so much to manage the condition to limit complications in later life. Living with diabetes isn't a joke and the media shouldn't use scare tactics to scare people into changing the way they eat, live and breathe. We all know how f**ked up this world can be and we don't need constant reminders on how diabetes can do this and that. So for the people out there that think it's funny to see that programme and make jokes F**k you. Not all T1 diabetics are born with it either, you can be any age to get it. Adults/Older people that are diagnosed as T1 are usually found later on after numerous blood work because the doctors misdiagnosed them with T2. Another thing there is children out there who have lost their life due to DKA because doctors are misdiagnosing them with the flu rather than testing their sugarsDiabetes in the media again. Let me tell you something the programme was aimed at T2 diabetes, not T1 diabetes. Yes, complications are scary but you can do so much to manage the condition to limit complications in later life. Living with diabetes isn't a joke and the media shouldn't use scare tactics to scare people into changing the way they eat, live and breathe. We all know how f**ked up this world can be and we don't need constant reminders on how diabetes can do this and that. So for the people out there that think it's funny to see that programme and make jokes F**k you. Not all T1 diabetics are born with it either, you can be any age to get it. Adults/Older people that are diagnosed as T1 are usually found later on after numerous blood work because the doctors misdiagnosed them with T2. Another thing there are children out there who have lost their life due to DKA because doctors are misdiagnosing them with the flu rather than testing their sugars