1. Get the Diabetes Forum App for your phone - available on iOS and Android.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Guest, we'd love to know what you think about the forum! Take the Diabetes Forum Survey 2021 »
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Diabetes Forum should not be used in an emergency and does not replace your healthcare professional relationship. Posts can be seen by the public.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Guest, stay home, stay safe, save the NHS. Stay up to date with information about keeping yourself and people around you safe here and GOV.UK: Coronavirus (COVID-19). Think you have symptoms? NHS 111 service is available here.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
Find support, ask questions and share your experiences. Join the community »

The Hidden Killer. Type 2 Diabetes.

Discussion in 'Type 2 Diabetes' started by catherinecherub, Oct 1, 2016.

  1. DavidGrahamJones

    DavidGrahamJones Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,253
    Likes Received:
    2,097
    Trophy Points:
    178
    Welcome to the forum. You'll be pleased to know that not everyone with type II diabetes ends up with bits being amputated. The program seemed to emphasise type II rather than BG control. The guy eating 4 weetabix for breakfast and pasta for lunch was heading for trouble. You will notice that most members on this forum look carefully at their carbs and reduce the amount depending on how their body reacts. We are all different and can tolerate varying amounts, but Low Carb is the very best way to go.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. DavidGrahamJones

    DavidGrahamJones Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,253
    Likes Received:
    2,097
    Trophy Points:
    178
    The Newcastle Diet seems to be very effective for recently diagnosed type IIs, not so much for old codgers like me. The interesting thing about bariatric surgery is that the bypass seems to reverse type II whereas the gastric band is not so successful. The band also has issues with it having to be re-tightened at some point and long term not always being 100% successful.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  3. hankjam

    hankjam Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,398
    Likes Received:
    12,912
    Trophy Points:
    198
    I don't have the numbers, but from a certain perspective I would say the programme was bang on. Those of on this forum, who have taken active steps to learn about BD and do something about it, are probably in the minority of T2's.
    Birmingham, 1in 10 are T2!! The people they represented in the programme really don't have any idea what they are dealing with. Some of the responses to double digit BGs were chilling. It is going to cost the NHS a bucket load of cash.
    I bet Diabetes UK would be pretty underwhelmed how they were represented in the programme.
    The lack of content on prevention / management sums up pretty well the current official position.... carry on with your "Eat well plate".
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  4. kay2409

    kay2409 Type 1 · Member

    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    25
    Trophy Points:
    53
    I was quite annoyed when they mentioned Type 1 diabetes and that it's a condition you're born with! I was diagnosed just before I turned 19. I know that the programme focuses on Type 2 but this is the sort of information 'normal' non-diabetic will remember.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  5. tim2000s

    tim2000s Type 1 · Expert
    Retired Moderator

    Messages:
    8,914
    Likes Received:
    11,782
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Sadly, so does bariatric surgery. The only way for it to work is if those who are given it totally change their lifestyle (Sound familiar?) so I dont' see why a wholly diet approach wouldn't do the same thing.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  6. AndBreathe

    AndBreathe I reversed my Type 2 · Expert
    Retired Moderator

    Messages:
    9,659
    Likes Received:
    15,719
    Trophy Points:
    178
    Hankjam, there was a slightly frisky discussion about this programme on the DUK forum last night. During the course of it, I tagged their forum Admin and asked if he know of any comment or response by DUK to the programme as it aired. I'll be interested to read that, in due course.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  7. Robinredbreast

    Robinredbreast Type 1 · Oracle

    Messages:
    18,422
    Likes Received:
    27,557
    Trophy Points:
    298
    The programme was mainly about the consequences of poor control and the cost, but I didn't see all of the programme, my eye's wouldn't let me. From what I did see and hear, diabetes is costing the NHS 10 % of it's budget. The patients I saw with type 2 were scoffing themselves into an early grave, the guy who ate 4 Weetabix for breakfast and then Frosties, constantly eating chocolate, the, the young lad of 15 who has type 2, not always testing, bs of 18 when he was in the clinic, eating the wrong foods and both were overweight, Birmingham has the highest rate of type 2. The surgeon who performed bariatric surgery said most of his patients actually had type 2. It's the children who really pull at my heart strings, it is unbelievable in this day and age that this epidemic is happening,
    On the whole our society has a lot to answer for, everything is on tap, too little exercise, convenience foods at the click of a button, if something doesn't work there is a fix for it. Over the decades, we have become a much lazier society and diabetes will keep spiralling out of control if something isn't done to try and prevent and educate, the government must step in.
    An educational programme with patients who have good control with type 2 diabetes, or who have turned their lives around, would be so beneficial.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 1
  8. azure

    azure Type 1 · Expert

    Messages:
    9,780
    Likes Received:
    7,400
    Trophy Points:
    178
    Yes, that was gobsmacking. Completely wrong.

    Complain to the BBC. They usually respond well to complaints about the portrayal of Type 1 in dramas, so I'd hope they'd take giving utterly false 'facts' about Type 1 in a flagship documentary equally seriously.

    Merging this thread with the older one where this is being discussed already.
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  9. AtkinsMo

    AtkinsMo Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    589
    Likes Received:
    707
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Nobody mentions all the risks of bariatric surgery, lifelong problems with absorption of nutrients, malabsorption, malnutrition. Bariatric surgery was the quick fix solution for obesity in the States (for those with the right insurance) - and now the Atkins / Low Carb forums are full of people that have had the surgery and still can't maintain weight loss and have a host of other problems too.

    A low carb diet, if you completely make the switch, is not hard to maintain in the long term, it rapidly becomes the new 'normal' diet for you, if you allow it to. But whilst people are getting such mixed or opposing messages from their health professionals, those who don't have the wherewithal, the time, the energy, the resourcefulness to research the alternatives are doomed to fail.

    They say that the LCHF diet is not proven long term, but what is proven is that the current guidelines have led to this outcome! I had to turn it off in the end- I just wanted to scream and shout at the TV! Panorama has lost the plot! Much better was the Fat v Carbs on BBC Wales, but that wheeled out the standard mantra - diet dangerous long term etc etc.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  10. AndBreathe

    AndBreathe I reversed my Type 2 · Expert
    Retired Moderator

    Messages:
    9,659
    Likes Received:
    15,719
    Trophy Points:
    178
    Interestingly enough, I had lunch at the weekend with a young(er than me) woman who wrestles with her weight, and has done for some time. She was relating to me that she is using a hypnotherapy app/podcast where the messaging is to visualise a gastsic band/sleeve is in place, with a view to effectively eating less and trimming off a bit of weight.

    Thus far, she has lost something like 10kg, in 3 or 4 weeks, and is delighted. I will be fascinated to observe her progress, and I do hope it helps her achieve her objectives. I don't believe she is diabetic or pre-diabetic, and it would be intrusive of me to ask.

    In so many things, including Change, the belief it's possible is key. We all need a bit of a crutch sometimes, and this one seems pretty harmless to me.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. AndBreathe

    AndBreathe I reversed my Type 2 · Expert
    Retired Moderator

    Messages:
    9,659
    Likes Received:
    15,719
    Trophy Points:
    178
    Whilst I couldn't challenge that 10% of the Birmingham population has Diabetes, I would probably want to throw into the mix that Birmingham is also a significantly and wonderfully multi-cultural society, with meaningfully large South Asian and Afro-Caribbean populations; all of whom are known to have a higher than usual genetic predisposition to develop diabetes. Obviously, that's not the whole story either, but it is worth noting.

    I happen to live relatively (under 25 miles) from one of the two NIHR units in UK, which happens to site on-site with a large Diabetes Centre. At a recent DUK meeting, we had a presentation from one of the coordinators from the NIHR who, as well as describing their work, was recruiting for various trials (not all Diabetes related by any means), being run by the centre. Even though we also have a culturally very diverse population, most of whom fall into the ethnically higher risk populations, they have problems recruiting enough participants to their trials, from those populations - even when some of them are paid.

    It's such a multi-layered problem, but in the background there does appear to be a bit of a ground swell developing for Change.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    #91 AndBreathe, Oct 4, 2016 at 8:32 AM
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2016
  12. Pinkorchid

    Pinkorchid Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,912
    Likes Received:
    1,946
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Maybe some people need to see that before they will do anything about it. I really don't think a lot of people with T2 think it is serious they think they just have to take the tablets and they can carry on eating their junk food diet
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  13. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

    Messages:
    17,343
    Likes Received:
    11,748
    Trophy Points:
    298
    Which their doctor probably reinforces whilst writing out the prescription...
     
  14. Prem51

    Prem51 Type 2 · Expert

    Messages:
    6,758
    Likes Received:
    20,368
    Trophy Points:
    198
    In a way I did like the program in that it has raised the issue of diabetes as a huge problem for the population and the NHS both in medical and financial terms. I hope that people who have been diagnosed as pre-diabetic or T2, or those who recognise that they are at risk, will look into ways in which they can avoid this condition.
    Unfortunately the program didn't offer any suggestions as to how that could be done. The message was that complications are inevitable. Except through bariatric surgery.
    Very little was said about the effects of processed and junk food and sugary drinks. The Government has avoided taking on the food industry on this issue. Too much profit involved.

    The only person who it was said had reduced his weight and got his blood sugars under control, the ex-cricketer, was still facing kidney failure and dialysis. I would like to have heard more about him. Are kidney problems inevitable even if we control our condition?
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  15. AtkinsMo

    AtkinsMo Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    589
    Likes Received:
    707
    Trophy Points:
    153
    http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/weight-loss-surgery/Pages/risks.aspx

    Who would willingly go down that road, rather than demonstrate the motivation and commitment to make a dietary change that is both satisfying and enjoyable?

    Risk of death 1/1000. Risk of embolism / pulmonary embolism, 1/100. A host of other complications and life long health conditions - who in the world would think this was the best alternative?

    The world has gone mad!
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
    Staff Member

    Messages:
    21,160
    Likes Received:
    34,741
    Trophy Points:
    298
    And when they do their little bean counting, and say that it saves the NHS money, because it 'cures' T2, do they factor in the long term risks and costs? Reactive hypoglycaemia, osteoporosis, malnutrition, corrective surgery for excess skin, digestive complications, counselling, depression...
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Pinkorchid

    Pinkorchid Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,912
    Likes Received:
    1,946
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Perhap
    If you have ever watched the bariatric surgeon Shaw Summers programmes about obesity you will see that for the very obese overeating is an addiction they can't stop it is as powerful for them as a smoking or drug addiction. They feel constantly hungry and never feel full up so their brain tells them to eat and having carby takeaways is the quick answer. Telling them to totally change their diet just does not work it does not cure their addiction for food and even if they do cut down the amount they eat they still don't loose weight and can even still gain it. For them bariatric surgery is the only answer but it is not easy for them as their brain is still telling them they are hungry but after surgery it is physically impossible for them to eat to much
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  18. tim2000s

    tim2000s Type 1 · Expert
    Retired Moderator

    Messages:
    8,914
    Likes Received:
    11,782
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Except that it's not. After bariatric surgery, they are told what they can eat. Those who are morbidly obese still struggle to eat small amounts and there are a fair number who still overeat and eat the wrong things. It still requires a mindset change to not try and beat what your body is telling you.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. AtkinsMo

    AtkinsMo Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    589
    Likes Received:
    707
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Shifts the budget, result! Insanity!
     
  20. AtkinsMo

    AtkinsMo Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    589
    Likes Received:
    707
    Trophy Points:
    153
    According to Tim Noakes it's all down to the Appestat, the part of the brain that tells the body it's nutritional requirements are satisfied. Carbs 'knock it out'. Many many people can attest that a very low carb diet suppresses appetite automatically.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Informative Informative x 1
  • Meet the Community

    Find support, connect with others, ask questions and share your experiences with people with diabetes, their carers and family.

    Did you know: 7 out of 10 people improve their understanding of diabetes within 6 months of being a Diabetes Forum member. Get the Diabetes Forum App and stay connected on iOS and Android

    Grab the app!
  • Tweet with us

  • Like us on Facebook