The insulin index

[CoastGirl]

And are your dumps more in the morning ? Or do you just see higher numbers after a larger protein meal. Could be HOURS after.

For ME, I would never be able to tell if it were a dump other than mornings. I just assume it's from my last meal. An animal fat rich meal I will see my highest levels four or more hours later. I have tonsplit my insulin doses to cover the late rise. I know you're not on insulin but goes to show how long a large protein/ fat meal can rise for.

Yes @Kristin251, dumps on rising. May get them other times of the day but as you said, I wouldn't know whether this is the last meal or a dump. I am testing some intermittent fasting at present but in a couple of weeks I'll swap this and do some experimenting with lower protein.

 

[Kristin251]

They certainly can be in the morning. I will always get a dump on rising and by having a coffee with cream or piece of cheese this will halt it but my bg can stay near or slightly above 7 for most of the morning. I am trying 18/6 intermittent fasting at the moment but sadly no improvement in the situation at present.

Your evening meal can certainly effect your morning. I have recently cut back on the size of my evening meal and my fastings have improved. That being said I still get the morning irritating rise and don't become more sensative until after noon. But when I start lower I stay lower.

@Bluetit1802 , you always make me want peas now!!! The only canned veggie I liked was sweet baby peas!!!

 

[Kristin251]

Yes @Kristin251, dumps on rising. May get them other times of the day but as you said, I wouldn't know whether this is the last meal or a dump. I am testing some intermittent fasting at present but in a couple of weeks I'll swap this and do some experimenting with lower protein.

Any idea how much protein you're eating? I used toneat loads ( when I was T2) and read the Rosedale Diet and after lowering my protein my bg came right down. However, I eat vlc/ keto and that could make a difference in how much and how fast you or I gluconeogenisis. But I am extremely carb sensative so upping my carbs isn't an option.
I also think it depends how far of progression you are in your D world. I've been through it all.

The latest recommendations are .8-1 g per kg LAN body mass but many eat much more. These recommendations seemed so measly compared to what I was eating and never thought I could do it but it works wonders.

Experiments are always good.

 

[Bluetit1802]

@Bluetit1802 , you always make me want peas now!!! The only canned veggie I liked was sweet baby peas!!!

Haha. I've never liked tinned peas of any description. I stick to dried marrowfat soaked overnight then cooked slowly until ready, (or brought to almost boiling and immediately decanted to a vacuum flask) or frozen garden peas for convenience. The dried marrowfat method is very much a tradition in my locality. I love my peas.

 

[Bluetit1802]

They certainly can be in the morning. I will always get a dump on rising and by having a coffee with cream or piece of cheese this will halt it but my bg can stay near or slightly above 7 for most of the morning. I am trying 18/6 intermittent fasting at the moment but sadly no improvement in the situation at present.

I suspect this is insulin resistance playing you up. Hormones trigger our livers to dump in the event of lower glucose when fasting and between meals, and then the pancreas secretes insulin to push this glucose in the cells where it is needed, and keeps the glucose balance as it should be. In normal people, this keeps the cells happy and the glucose at normal levels, and the liver stops dumping. What happens with us is the secreted insulin can't push the glucose to the cells where it is needed due to insulin resistance, so the glucose stays in the blood stream a long time. The only other reason is when the pancreas isn't producing enough insulin in the first place. Intermittent fasting should help with the IR, so do keep doing it.

I also do 18/6 fasting, and I also have a coffee with cream almost as soon as I get up, and that keeps me low and flat all morning - but I suspect my insulin resistance has diminished sufficiently for any liver dumps to become insignificant. I only get them now after strenuous exercise. Probably because strenuous exercise is a rare shock to my system!!!!!!

 

[CherryAA]

https://optimisingnutrition.com/category/recipes/


this website has a whole bunch of sample meals with a low insulin load.

https://optimisingnutrition.com/2015/06/04/the-goldilocks-glucose-zone/ and this one works to identify an "optimal strategy between carbs and proteins .

 

[CoastGirl]

Any idea how much protein you're eating? I used toneat loads ( when I was T2) and read the Rosedale Diet and after lowering my protein my bg came right down. However, I eat vlc/ keto and that could make a difference in how much and how fast you or I gluconeogenisis. But I am extremely carb sensative so upping my carbs isn't an option.
I also think it depends how far of progression you are in your D world. I've been through it all.

The latest recommendations are .8-1 g per kg LAN body mass but many eat much more. These recommendations seemed so measly compared to what I was eating and never thought I could do it but it works wonders.

Experiments are always good.

Than you @Kristin251. I suspect I am eating slightly more protein than the recommendations but will need to accurately count this when I experiment after my intermittent fasting.

 

[Kristin251]

Than you @Kristin251. I suspect I am eating slightly more protein than the recommendations but will need to accurately count this when I experiment after my intermittent fasting.

One last detail. Dividing your protein into smaller portions throughout the day rather than one largenone may help. Unless I want to split my doses I can't eat more than 3 oz a time. Again, just an example as to how long protein can hang out. My peak is around 3 hours even with smaller portions.
Looks like you've got some experimenting to do!!! Haha. Not reallly funny though.

 

[CoastGirl]

I suspect this is insulin resistance playing you up. Hormones trigger our livers to dump in the event of lower glucose when fasting and between meals, and then the pancreas secretes insulin to push this glucose in the cells where it is needed, and keeps the glucose balance as it should be. In normal people, this keeps the cells happy and the glucose at normal levels, and the liver stops dumping. What happens with us is the secreted insulin can't push the glucose to the cells where it is needed due to insulin resistance, so the glucose stays in the blood stream a long time. The only other reason is when the pancreas isn't producing enough insulin in the first place. Intermittent fasting should help with the IR, so do keep doing it.

I also do 18/6 fasting, and I also have a coffee with cream almost as soon as I get up, and that keeps me low and flat all morning - but I suspect my insulin resistance has diminished sufficiently for any liver dumps to become insignificant. I only get them now after strenuous exercise. Probably because strenuous exercise is a rare shock to my system!!!!!!

Thanks @Bluetit1802. I have lost well over 15% of my body weight and now sit at 60kg and probably 5'6ish so I am quite skinny now and was hoping the insulin resistance would have gone by now. I have just had a fasting insulin test done and may well try a home OGTT as I assume these will tell me if my pancreas is still working and secreting insulin. In the meantime I will continue with the intermittent fasting and then move onto less protein ...... keep calm and carry on experimenting

 

[Kristin251]

Haha. I've never liked tinned peas of any description. I stick to dried marrowfat soaked overnight then cooked slowly until ready, (or brought to almost boiling and immediately decanted to a vacuum flask) or frozen garden peas for convenience. The dried marrowfat method is very much a tradition in my locality. I love my peas.

My husband despises canned peas. Or any canned veggie.

I have never heard of your peas! Are they like split peas that you'd make split pea and ham soup with? Dang! Now I want that too!!

 

[CoastGirl]

One last detail. Dividing your protein into smaller portions throughout the day rather than one largenone may help. Unless I want to split my doses I can't eat more than 3 oz a time. Again, just an example as to how long protein can hang out. My peak is around 3 hours even with smaller portions.
Looks like you've got some experimenting to do!!! Haha. Not reallly funny though.

Good idea, thank you. It is so helpful to gain hints and tips from the people on this forum.

 

[Bluetit1802]

One last detail. Dividing your protein into smaller portions throughout the day rather than one largenone may help. Unless I want to split my doses I can't eat more than 3 oz a time. Again, just an example as to how long protein can hang out. My peak is around 3 hours even with smaller portions.
Looks like you've got some experimenting to do!!! Haha. Not reallly funny though.

3oz is a lot at once, even for me, a big protein eater. It converts to 85g. There is only 21g protein in a 105g tin of salmon, and the same in a 100g fillet steak.

 

[Bluetit1802]

Thanks @Bluetit1802. I have lost well over 15% of my body weight and now sit at 60kg and probably 5'6ish so I am quite skinny now and was hoping the insulin resistance would have gone by now. I have just had a fasting insulin test done and may well try a home OGTT as I assume these will tell me if my pancreas is still working and secreting insulin. In the meantime I will continue with the intermittent fasting and then move onto less protein ...... keep calm and carry on experimenting

Do let us know the result of your fasting insulin test. Are you in the UK and if so, was it on the NHS? @CherryAA and @bulkbiker will be interested, and so will I. Brilliant weight loss by the way.

 

[Bluetit1802]

have never heard of your peas! Are they like split peas that you'd make split pea and ham soup with? Dang! Now I want that too!!

No, not split peas. They are quite big round peas called marrowfat peas. They come dried.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marrowfat_peas

 

[CoastGirl]

Do let us know the result of your fasting insulin test. Are you in the UK and if so, was it on the NHS? @CherryAA and @bulkbiker will be interested, and so will I. Brilliant weight loss by the way.

Apprehensive about the result as I have an instinctive feeling it's not going to be great. If I feel brave enough I will post the result. I am un the UK and had the test done privately. Happily for me the weight just fell off in the first 3 months and I now struggle to keep it on. I know this isn't the same for everyone so in that respect I've been very lucky.

 

[Kristin251]

3oz is a lot at once, even for me, a big protein eater. It converts to 85g. There is only 21g protein in a 105g tin of salmon, and the same in a 100g fillet steak.

I eat roughly 45 g of pure protein a day. Using 7 as an average for every ounce that comes to about 5 ounces of animal protein and I get some extra in veg, avocado and nuts

My 5 oz tin of tuna has 35 G protein and I can get 2.5 meals out of it.
My one ounce slice of deli turkey at bf has 7g protein. Then I eat 2 oz at lunch and dinner. Protein grams and weighed protein are different. I use 7 g per ounce as an average and weigh the protein in ounces.
It confused me for a while haha. Now I just use 7 and weigh out 2 ounces.

 

[Kristin251]

No, not split peas. They are quite big round peas called marrowfat peas. They come dried.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marrowfat_peas

I don't think I've ever seen those here! They look like soy bean peas.

 

[Bluetit1802]

I eat roughly 45 g of pure protein a day. Using 7 as an average for every ounce that comes to about 5 ounces of animal protein and I get some extra in veg, avocado and nuts

My 5 oz tin of tuna has 35 G protein and I can get 2.5 meals out of it.
My one ounce slice of deli turkey at bf has 7g protein. Then I eat 2 oz at lunch and dinner. Protein grams and weighed protein are different. I use 7 g per ounce as an average and weigh the protein in ounces.
It confused me for a while haha. Now I just use 7 and weigh out 2 ounces.

The confusion for me is because when you say you eat 5oz protein, you are using the weight of the food, not the pure protein amount. Most people on here just use the weight of the pure protein. So do I, and this is why it is confusing. So when people say they eat for example 45g protein a day, that is the actual protein, not the weight of the food, which contains things other than protein. 45g is about 1 and a half oz.

Apologies for derailing the thread

 

[Kristin251]

The confusion for me is because when you say you eat 5oz protein, you are using the weight of the food, not the pure protein amount. Most people on here just use the weight of the pure protein. So do I, and this is why it is confusing. So when people say they eat for example 45g protein a day, that is the actual protein, not the weight of the food, which contains things other than protein. 45g is about 1 and a half oz.

Apologies for derailing the thread

Understood. I'll keep that in mind. 28.3 g per ounce. It's just easier for me to plop it on a food scale. I of course have a list of the protein per ounce in my batch cooked proteins.

Out of curiosity, how many grams of protein do you eat a day? Your tin of salmon is 21 right? So about 3 ounces if you put it on a scale? 7 g per ounce?

 

[Mr_Pot]

Understood. I'll keep that in mind. 28.3 g per ounce. It's just easier for me to plop it on a food scale. I of course have a list of the protein per ounce in my batch cooked proteins.

Out of curiosity, how many grams of protein do you eat a day? Your tin of salmon is 21 right? So about 3 ounces if you put it on a scale? 7 g per ounce?

Why not get some scales that read in grams?