The NHS T2 Treatment Regime

[Avocado Sevenfold]

@seadragon
I get fat from nuts/nut butters, seeds, tahini, avocados, olives, olive oil, rapeseed oil, coconut oil. Carbs are kept lower that the Eatwell plate by avoiding rice, potatoes, most bread, pasta, sugar, tropical fruit...sound familiar? I don't count macros. Probably having a curry tonight.

I wished @Shoveller well as it would be interesting to see if there are other successful ways of eating to manage diabetes. I am here to learn so am keeping an open mind.

 

[Avocado Sevenfold]

I am not sure if we are off topic enough yet. Soz

 

[seadragon]

@seadragon
I get fat from nuts/nut butters, seeds, tahini, avocados, olives, olive oil, rapeseed oil, coconut oil. Carbs are kept lower that the Eatwell plate by avoiding rice, potatoes, most bread, pasta, sugar, tropical fruit...sound familiar? I don't count macros. Probably having a curry tonight.

I wished @Shoveller well as it would be interesting to see if there are other successful ways of eating to manage diabetes. I am here to learn so am keeping an open mind.

Apologies as OT but what do you have with your curry instead of rice?

 

[Avocado Sevenfold]

Apologies as OT but what do you have with your curry instead of rice?

Not decided yet for tonight. Will either be cauliflower rice (coconut lime caulirice is very tasty) or shredded crunchy lettuce which sounds odd but is good for soaking up curry sauce.

 

[seadragon]

Not decided yet for tonight. Will either be cauliflower rice (coconut lime caulirice is very tasty) or shredded crunchy lettuce which sounds odd but is good for soaking up curry sauce.

Ah yes I love cauliflower rice! Will have to try coconut lime version - do you fry in coconut oil and add lime juice or is there more of a recipe? My mother as a vegetarian diabetic, really struggles with finding a do-able low carb high fat diet so I imagine as a vegan it is even more difficult with no cheese or eggs. Interesting that your vegan diet is actually very different from (and for a diabetic sounds much better than), McDougall's vegan diet. Will be interesting to see how @Shoveller gets on with the high carb load his diet will have.

 

[Avocado Sevenfold]

@seadragon
This is the recipe I use. Dairy free coconut milk powder is available online (unlike the one the blogger links to)

http://www.ibreatheimhungry.com/201...iflower-rice-recipe-low-carb-gluten-free.html

I find being a vegan diabetic really easy. It has other unexpected bonuses too - like at work yesterday when there was a big chocolate birthday cake being offered around. I used to find these events very stressful as I don't tell people at work I have diabetes, but I didn't even get offered any yesterday because I'm vegan

My way of eating is different from Dr McDougall's and also very different from Dr Eenfeldt's, but it works for me. We each have to find a way of eating that is sustainable for life as I suspect diabetes is for life. I hope you manage to avoid it

 

[seadragon]

@seadragon
This is the recipe I use. Dairy free coconut milk powder is available online (unlike the one the blogger links to)

http://www.ibreatheimhungry.com/201...iflower-rice-recipe-low-carb-gluten-free.html

I find being a vegan diabetic really easy. It has other unexpected bonuses too - like at work yesterday when there was a big chocolate birthday cake being offered around. I used to find these events very stressful as I don't tell people at work I have diabetes, but I didn't even get offered any yesterday because I'm vegan

My way of eating is different from Dr McDougall's and also very different from Dr Eenfeldt's, but it works for me. We each have to find a way of eating that is sustainable for life as I suspect diabetes is for life. I hope you manage to avoid it

Thanks @Avacado Sevenfold for that recipe.
I try not to mention diabetes either but just say I'm cutting carbs for health reasons or I'm glucose intolerant - then if they are interested I can tell them about the low carb high fat way of eating. People are usually only interested in the weight loss effects but I've met some struggling diabetics that way and been able to help them to a better med free (or reduced) future which is great.
I found the McDougall video very annoying - so much bad science and untrue stuff in it (e.g the low carb diet really has very little to do with Coeliac disease contrary to what he states. Low carb diets for diabetes date back over a hundred years if not more). What I like about the dietdoctor.com site is all the links to the recent science and the scientists that back up the low carb diet. It would be good if he could do more vegetarian/vegan recipes though and then maybe the more militant vegans would not have to be anti low carb.
Now if only the NHS would give us the information and the choices instead of the crazy insistence of the Eatwell plate being the only way to eat for diabetics we'd be getting somewhere.

 

[Avocado Sevenfold]

@seadragon I like my work place to be diabetes-free. One pregnant woman was talking about how her father-in-law was diabetic, but it was ok because it was "the kind you get from having a rubbish lifestyle." I felt like I had been kicked

I don't rate online diet gurus much. When I was first diagnosed, I googled for low carb vegetarian and found an esteemed doctor saying that a low carb vegetarian diet was ok as long as it included fish. Eh? So I don't listen to these "experts" now. The militant omnivore Diet Doctor site (see what I did there? hehe) has one vegan recipe in the search results which includes the warning that it is not a recommended way of eating in the long term. Then of course there's the Eatwell Plate. And my NHS dietician. Getting it from all directions. It's a good job I don't care

I agree that the NHS should accept that there are other options. It is insulting to think that patients would just prefer to keep their diet similar and take meds. As we see here every day, a lot of people are highly motivated to be healthy and having to fight the NHS dogma is a spanner in the works we don't need.

 

[seadragon]

@seadragon I like my work place to be diabetes-free. One pregnant woman was talking about how her father-in-law was diabetic, but it was ok because it was "the kind you get from having a rubbish lifestyle." I felt like I had been kicked

I don't rate online diet gurus much. When I was first diagnosed, I googled for low carb vegetarian and found an esteemed doctor saying that a low carb vegetarian diet was ok as long as it included fish. Eh? So I don't listen to these "experts" now. The militant omnivore Diet Doctor site (see what I did there? hehe) has one vegan recipe in the search results which includes the warning that it is not a recommended way of eating in the long term. Then of course there's the Eatwell Plate. And my NHS dietician. Getting it from all directions. It's a good job I don't care

I agree that the NHS should accept that there are other options. It is insulting to think that patients would just prefer to keep their diet similar and take meds. As we see here every day, a lot of people are highly motivated to be healthy and having to fight the NHS dogma is a spanner in the works we don't need.

Well I disagree that dietdoctor site is militant in the way many vegan sites are but I certainly agree with your last paragraph . I believe a number of people have asked for more veggie and vegan recipes on dietdoctor so there may be more coming. They didn't diss the vegan lifestyle, just that they didn't recommend it because they feel it's difficult to get enough nutrients and protein (and really veganism is an ethical choice when dietdoctor is only about health). Your case shows that it's perfectly possible to get enough nutrients on low carb vegan though, so maybe if you emailed them it might encourage them to add more vegan meals. It was not set up as a vegan site though and I guess they don't at the moment have enough people interested in vegan lifestyle to invest in the time to find or make recipes.

 

[Avocado Sevenfold]

Well I disagree that dietdoctor site is militant in the way many vegan sites are but I certainly agree with your last paragraph . I believe a number of people have asked for more veggie and vegan recipes on dietdoctor so there may be more coming. They didn't diss the vegan lifestyle, just that they didn't recommend it because they feel it's difficult to get enough nutrients and protein (and really veganism is an ethical choice when dietdoctor is only about health). Your case shows that it's perfectly possible to get enough nutrients on low carb vegan though, so maybe if you emailed them it might encourage them to add more vegan meals. It was not set up as a vegan site though and I guess they don't at the moment have enough people interested in vegan lifestyle to invest in the time to find or make recipes.

I was simply highlighting the fact you never see the word militant in the context of omnivorous eating. Same goes for other words such as agenda and propaganda I am not concerned at Dr E's lack of vegan recipes to be fair as there are so many other sites and resources available. I just mentioned him as his site is often recommended on this forum.

Curry was great. I'm stuffed!

 

[seadragon]

I was simply highlighting the fact you never see the word militant in the context of omnivorous eating. Same goes for other words such as agenda and propaganda I am not concerned at Dr E's lack of vegan recipes to be fair as there are so many other sites and resources available. I just mentioned him as his site is often recommended on this forum.

Curry was great. I'm stuffed!

We need your curry recipe!
You don't see the word militant because it tends to be only vegan sites that are militant. Probably what turns me off a vegan lifestyle more than anything else. I think I'd quite like the food.
The diet doctor site gets recommended because it is a good site that isn't trying to sell you anything and is there to help people gain health. I researched extensively and looked at so many sites and actually went through all the science papers that PHE used to try and refute Low carb high fat and came back to Dietdoctor as the one site that seemed to have genuine integrity. Plus from personal experience for myself and whole family it works exactly as it says on the tin and is an easy lifestyle change to make with food that is delicious and healthy. I don't have an ethical hang up about eating animal products (to be fair if we all turned vegan overnight more animals would die, since farmers would have to slaughter all their animals that would suddenly be unproductive) and low carb high fat can be an easy and genuinely enjoyable way of eating for life. It is after all the fat that gives most food it's taste and flavour. All veggies taste better with butter!

 

[Avocado Sevenfold]

We need your curry recipe!
You don't see the word militant because it tends to be only vegan sites that are militant. Probably what turns me off a vegan lifestyle more than anything else. I think I'd quite like the food.
The diet doctor site gets recommended because it is a good site that isn't trying to sell you anything and is there to help people gain health. I researched extensively and looked at so many sites and actually went through all the science papers that PHE used to try and refute Low carb high fat and came back to Dietdoctor as the one site that seemed to have genuine integrity. Plus from personal experience for myself and whole family it works exactly as it says on the tin and is an easy lifestyle change to make with food that is delicious and healthy. I don't have an ethical hang up about eating animal products (to be fair if we all turned vegan overnight more animals would die, since farmers would have to slaughter all their animals that would suddenly be unproductive) and low carb high fat can be an easy and genuinely enjoyable way of eating for life. It is after all the fat that gives most food it's taste and flavour. All veggies taste better with butter!

"All veggies taste better with butter!" And there you have it. You are basing your dietary choices on appetite. That's your choice, but you are dressing it up as concern for the slaughter of all animals. It's a common pitfall in such an ethical debate. Equality over appetite, as us pesky "militants" might say

The curry was a Navratan Korma from a book by Richa Hingle. I can't find a link online and don't want to infringe her copyright by typing it out. It was very filling as it used creamed cashews and tomatoes for the sauce. We left out the potatoes and dried fruits and used chickpeas, red pepper, courgette, green beans, spinach and toasted almonds.

 

[seadragon]

"All veggies taste better with butter!" And there you have it. You are basing your dietary choices on appetite. That's your choice, but you are dressing it up as concern for the slaughter of all animals. It's a common pitfall in such an ethical debate. Equality over appetite, as us pesky "militants" might say

The curry was a Navratan Korma from a book by Richa Hingle. I can't find a link online and don't want to infringe her copyright by typing it out. It was very filling as it used creamed cashews and tomatoes for the sauce. We left out the potatoes and dried fruits and used chickpeas, red pepper, courgette, green beans, spinach and toasted almonds.

To be fair since I've already said I'm not opposed to eating animals or animal products, I'm not dressing up eating veggies as concern for animals at all. My concern is for reversing diabetes and the easiest, tastiest diets to do that. Much easier to up the veggie content of your meals (which I'd agree is a healthy thing to do) if they taste good. I have no intention of turning vegan or even vegetarian although I do enjoy some vegan and veggie recipes - e.g that curry sounds good. Though indeed, in order to stop dairy cows being slaughtered as useless, I will continue to eat butter and milk etc and they can continue to live on the dairy farms. Totally off topic now but I've yet to see a convincing argument as to what would happen to all the farm animals if everyone went vegan overnight. Or is it OK to sacrifice the generation of farm animals that lives now in order that no more are born into farm servitude - or indeed that no more are born at all. How many people want a cow as a pet? - are pets even allowed as a vegan? Now that's an interesting debate but not for this thread perhaps

 

[Avocado Sevenfold]

To be fair since I've already said I'm not opposed to eating animals or animal products, I'm not dressing up eating veggies as concern for animals at all. My concern is for reversing diabetes and the easiest, tastiest diets to do that. Much easier to up the veggie content of your meals (which I'd agree is a healthy thing to do) if they taste good. I have no intention of turning vegan or even vegetarian although I do enjoy some vegan and veggie recipes - e.g that curry sounds good. Though indeed, in order to stop dairy cows being slaughtered as useless, I will continue to eat butter and milk etc and they can continue to live on the dairy farms. Totally off topic now but I've yet to see a convincing argument as to what would happen to all the farm animals if everyone went vegan overnight. Or is it OK to sacrifice the generation of farm animals that lives now in order that no more are born into farm servitude - or indeed that no more are born at all. How many people want a cow as a pet? - are pets even allowed as a vegan? Now that's an interesting debate but not for this thread perhaps

Last time I looked out of the window I was on planet Earth.

Have a nice life!