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The NHS T2 Treatment Regime

MikeTurin said:
I never ate an Oreo, but I have eaten a lot of the Italian version. "Ringo"
By the way in the '80s or in the '90 the recipe and the biscuit shape changed, and the "winchester cathedral" tune for advertising was abandoned. Almost stopped to eat them.[/QUOTE
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Pinkorchid said:
It is not down to the doctors to dictate how we eat it is up to us personally to find out what suits us best. Anyway Ithey li doubt that there are that many diabetics who actually keep rigidly to the Eat Well plate most will be eating the way they want to and very many will think they can eat anything ke as long as they take the Metformin and that is probably more harmful than the Eat Well plate
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And just how are we supposed to personally find out what suits us best if:

a) we are actively discouraged from self testing and
b) the eatwell plate is actively promoted and
c) low carb info is very hard to find on the web for new diabetics and there is no NHS backing for it, in fact we are told it is harmful to us as we need lots of carbs?

Also, sweeping generalization about most T2's with nothing to substantiate your claim that most are not even trying.
 
I would like to thank everybody who has contributed so far to this discussion. It's been a real education for me to read all the diverse and different arguments, responses and points of view .. thanks again
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Picking up on the theme that the NHS/NICE continues to deliver treatment guidelines, advice and practice that many T2s (and GPs) experience as inconsistent, inappropriate and unhelpful .. and, further, that neither of these organisations appear to even acknowledge that other effective treatment options are available, I wonder whether public questions about this have ever been asked. Has anybody ever raised this issue with their MP, for instance .. or looked into the possibility of raising an e-petition for debate in Parliament?
 
serenity648 said:
And just how are we supposed to personally find out what suits us best if:

a) we are actively discouraged from self testing and
b) the eatwell plate is actively promoted and
c) low carb info is very hard to find on the web for new diabetics and there is no NHS backing for it, in fact we are told it is harmful to us as we need lots of carbs?

Also, sweeping generalization about most T2's with nothing to substantiate your claim that most are not even trying.
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I have never been told by my doctor or nurse that I should follow the Eat Well plate so I imagine many others are not told it either. I was just asked how I ate I said mostly chicken fish cheese eggs dairy salads fruit and vegetables and the nurse said that was fine but just try to keep away from sugar stuff which I never had much of anyway. I had never even heard of the Eat Well plate or blood testing until I joined here. When I found this forum I thought it was Diabetes UK as most GP's and DN's say to join that and many others here have said they thought the same when they joined so I thought that the advice here was the official NHS advice for diabetics because no one here said it wasn't and any newbies joining are told to do it so I lowered the starchy carbs I ate and it was a while before I realised this was not Diabetes UK but was just a small minority of diabetics among thousands who were doing LCHF
It is very much trial and error to find the way that suits us personally so that is how we do it
 
Rustytypin said:
I strongly believe that the eatwell plate is one of the reasons that I'm prediabetic. My diet up to about ten months ago mirrored the recomendations given by the NHS, and for me contained too many carbs. I thought I was doing the right thing, BMI in the normal range, at least "5 a day", starchy carbs and so on. Since going LCHF after finding this web-site, my overall health has improved as well as my BG levels.
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This is exactly the problem my diabetic nurse is still recommending the healthy plate with 50% of carbs (albeit good carbs) when this is clearly NOT beneficial to T2 diabetics. Personally I have no support or advice given to me to try a very low carb diet!
 
serenity648 said:
a) we are actively discouraged from self testing and
b) the eatwell plate is actively promoted and
c) low carb info is very hard to find on the web for new diabetics and there is no NHS backing for it, in fact we are told it is harmful to us as we need lots of carbs?
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Things might be changing but slowly. I recently visited a diabetic specialist for the first time in 20 years and one of the things she was going to recommend was low carb, she even had a low carb book on her desk to show me. I was ahead of the game. My GP wasn't over the moon with my decision to low carb but delighted when she saw the results, lower BG and total cholesterol and 3 less meds. At the same time the diabetic nurse at my surgery was absolutely fine and very supportive.

However, a GP I know through the Multiple Sclerosis Centre was horrified when I mentioned my low carb diet, but I think her opinions were based on what she knew before MS forced her to retire.

Something of a minefield really.
 
Just to significantly add to the overall debate. I'm another that has never eaten an Oreo.

Have very rarely eaten biscuits of any kind for the past thirty years. Generally only had them in the house when we have someone in to do some work. Last time biscuits were in the house was 3 months before I was diagnosed when we were having a new boiler fitted, and the leftovers were sent away with the guy anyway. That's one of the reasons I can say that excessive consumption of biscuits did NOT give me diabetes in spite of what the newspapers might be saying this week or next.
 
  1. From reading the posts on here over the last year it became clear that T2 diabetes has a range of causes, only some of which have been acknowledged by the medical community. I have never been medically obese and was just into the overweight category for my height when diagnosed, but the DN insisted that either my parents had T2 or I was eating too much sugary foods. Neither of my parents have had T2, my mother at 85 is not diabetic, it does not run in the family, and I was following the low fat, eatwell recommended diet. The answer as far as the Dr and DN were concerned was to give me a tablet and tell me that it was progressive. It was only when I stumbled on this forum, having already decided to take control for myself and to start testing my BG levels after eating, that I found out that I was not alone in being an 'awkward' patient. I believe that my T2 has its roots in my teenage years when the body lays down the total number of fat cells for life. I was skinny then, bordering on chronically underweight. With age the weight crept on but when the fat cells 'filled up' there was nowhere for the BG to go as I approached a 'normal' weight for my height. My concern is that many teenagers of the '80s and 90's are now reaching middle age when the weight creeps on as we become more sedentary, so they are also becoming diabetic, given Metformin and told to eat a carb heavy diet, then blamed when their condition does not improve or becomes progressively worse and they need stronger medication.
  2. Most GPs do not have the time to keep up with the latest thinking on diabetes and there are powerful influences at work in the pharma and food industries who are not interested in changing the current advice. Giving people the option of hiring a meter from the surgery for couple of months would soon show the foods that were causing them a problem. If they could also lose weight and exercise more it would help. After 6 months the meters could be recycled and passed on to someone else. The risk of infection is minimal with the use of disposable lancet cartridges and test strips. The long term cost to the NHS would diminish, those who could change their lifestyle would have guidance on doing so and we would take control of a rising epidemic given the continuing fashion for thin models.
  3. Other people have a genetic predispostion so the solution for them would be different. The first step will be the recognition that diabetes is a range of conditions that tend to manifest with age.
  4. I used to indulge in the occasional packet of biscuits but I have never knowingly eaten an Oreo.
 
I have never eaten an Oreo

I have never stuffed my face with junk food (or any other food to excess)

I am obese and T2........................
 
I was wonderin why, if there is the BIG EVIL PHARMA conspiraton, and that test strips are costly items, why testing is actively discouraged. The cpst of the meter itself os an one off and isn't hig, but strips are.
Of there is sich conspiration, why the guidelines are pujing am old and cheap substance like metformin?

I could buy the bribing on statines, because there are costly repackagong of molecules that are dospensed onstead of the older ones with expired patent.

I think that unfortunately the problem is rooted on the mosconception that diabetes is a self inflicted disease and the gluttony is a capital sin.
It's lile denyng morphine totermonally ill people 'cause moophed ossa drug.
 
The debate about low carb will go on and on I imagine. Many think that high carbs are not good for anyone not just for diabetics but we have to think about those people who are on a low food budget who rely heavily on starchy carbs like pasta potatoes and bread as a big part of their diet. Not everyone can afford to go low carb and that includes some here who have said they can't afford it because their food budget is limited
 
Pinkorchid said:
The debate about low carb will go on and on I imagine. Many think that high carbs are not good for anyone not just for diabetics but we have to think about those people who are on a low food budget who rely heavily on starchy carbs like pasta potatoes and bread as a big part of their diet. Not everyone can afford to go low carb and that includes some here who have said they can't afford it because their food budget is limited
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I am on a reduced income and i have found that low carbing is cheaper. You dont have to eat meat or any expensive foods. And I save on the cost of the high carb foods i used to buy. And no, I didnt eat processed or junk foods before.

I suggest that those on here who have said they cant afford it (I havent personally come across any of those posts, but thats just perhaps where I am looking) should have a look at the vegetarian meal suggestions, and there are many, many cheap meal which are low carb. Omelettes for a start, in lots of varieties, are one of my staple meals.
 
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