The one show discussion

[NewTD2]

That diet would have killed me, or at the very least removed the will to live. It doesn't look very nutritious. Did they give you supplements?

No supplements unfortunately.

After the starvation diet, I could hardly walk to be honest, but it has to be done.

I lost about 3.5 stones, fasting bg levels dropped from 9.8 -13 to 4.9 - 5.9. HBA1c also dropped from 85 to 38.

My bg levels normalised until now so it did work!

But it was a horrific life-changing experience.

[Moderator edit to historical atrocity reference.]

 

[Bluetit1802]

No supplements unfortunately.

After the starvation diet, I could hardly walk but it has to be done.

I lost about 3.5 stones, fasting bg levels dropped from 9.8 -13 to 4.9 - 5.9. HBA1c also dropped from 85 to 38.

My bg levels normalised until now so it did work!

It was horrific.

I don't know how you did it, but well done for sticking at it.

[mod edit in quote.]

 

[AdamJames]

No supplements unfortunately.

After the starvation diet, I could hardly walk but it has to be done.

I lost about 3.5 stones, fasting bg levels dropped from 9.8 -13 to 4.9 - 5.9. HBA1c also dropped from 85 to 38.

My bg levels normalised until now so it did work!

It was horrific.

Very well done. Whatever anyone thinks of the approach or the soundness of the medical direction, the fact is you were told to do it, you stuck to it and you're alive to tell the tale. Most importantly, you sound like you are currently doing well?

Do you feel you have a good relationship with food now you are through that episode? It sounds like you've done very well from following dietdoctor type recipes from some of your other posts elsewhere.

[Mod edit in quote.]

 

[zand]

No supplements unfortunately.

After the starvation diet, I could hardly walk and I felt like I have just come out of a Nazi concentration camp to be honest, but it has to be done.

I lost about 3.5 stones, fasting bg levels dropped from 9.8 -13 to 4.9 - 5.9. HBA1c also dropped from 85 to 38.

My bg levels normalised until now so it did work!

But it was a horrific life-changing experience.

Yes well done for sticking to it. Is there a reason you didn't do the ND 800 cal diet for 12 weeks?

 

[NewTD2]

I don't know how you did it, but well done for sticking at it.

Thank you!

I was given three options by my endo:

1. To lose weight fast by doing a starvation diet and therefore reversing diabetes.

2. To lose weight slowly and gradually by diet and exercise.

3. Absolutely do nothing and be on insulin for life.

I chose to do my own version of the Newcastle Diet because I want to get into remission fast.

It did work, thank God!

 

[NewTD2]

Yes well done for sticking to it. Is there a reason you didn't do the ND 800 cal diet for 12 weeks?

I did my own version of the Newcastle Diet but it was starvation diet because I was desperate to get into remission fast.

 

[NewTD2]

It takes a lot of courage, determination, endurance but if I can do it, anyone can do it for sure.

But my advice would be to make sure you have consulted your endo / GP before doing any crash diets.

It’s quite dangerous!

 

[zand]

but if I can do it, anyone can do it for sure.

hmmm, that's not true. I realise you are trying to be modest. The reality is very few of us could do that, and if we did the outcome might not be so positive. I am so glad it worked for you after all your efforts.

I also think it's important to look at our whole health, not just the diabetes. Whilst we are 'curing' one thing we may be causing damage elsewhere. I am not referring to you @NewTD2 as you did it properly, under medical supervision.

Well done again.

 

[Guzzler]

No way.. I'd disappear!

I did my own version of the Newcastle Diet but it was starvation diet because I was desperate to get into remission fast.

That decision could very easily have proved harmful. I find it hard to comprehend why an endocrinologist, a dietician and a GP would sanction, let alone prescribe, a starvation diet.

Your comment "If I can do it anyone can" is one I loathe. We are individuals and we each have to base our decisions on our own personal circumstances. I can get into a size 8 dress so by your reckoning everyone should be able to do the same.

edited to add. Sorry BB did not mean to reply to your comment.

 

[NewTD2]

hmmm, that's not true. I realise you are trying to be modest. The reality is very few of us could do that, and if we did the outcome might not be so positive. I am so glad it worked for you after all your efforts.

I also think it's important to look at our whole health, not just the diabetes. Whilst we are 'curing' one thing we may be causing damage elsewhere. I am not referring to you @NewTD2 as you did it properly, under medical supervision.

Well done again.

Yes I agree, it has to be done under medical supervision absolutely!

 

[NewTD2]

That decision could very easily have proved harmful. I find it hard to comprehend why an endocrinologist, a dietician and a GP would sanction, let alone prescribe, a starvation diet.

Your comment "If I can do it anyone can" is one I loathe. We are individuals and we each have to base our decisions on our own personal circumstances. I can get into a size 8 dress so by your reckoning everyone should be able to do the same.

I don’t want to be misunderstood here.

Just trying to give some sort of encouragement.

What I meant was, I had the determination to go for it but on the other hand we are all different.

 

[AdamJames]

I can get into a size 8 dress so by your reckoning everyone should be able to do the same.

Hmmmm... Back in a moment...

Drat. That didn't work out. And I think my neighbour has stopped speaking to me.

 

[AdamJames]

I don’t want to be misunderstood here.

Just trying to give some sort of encouragement.

What I meant was, I had the determination to go for it but on the other hand we are all different.

I get it, it certainly seemed like you were just being modest and encouraging. It was a far cry from saying "why doesn't everyone else do it, what's wrong with people?" I think we've been a bit sensitised to that in this thread

 

[zand]

I get it, it certainly seemed like you were just being modest and encouraging. It was a far cry from saying "why doesn't everyone else do it, what's wrong with people?" I think we've been a bit sensitised to that in this thread

Yep we sure have.

However @NewTD2 don't be modest, you should be very proud

 

[NewTD2]

I get it, it certainly seemed like you were just being modest and encouraging. It was a far cry from saying "why doesn't everyone else do it, what's wrong with people?" I think we've been a bit sensitised to that in this thread

We should try to encourage one another and see some great results.

On the other hand we are all different. What worked for me doesn’t necessarily work nor recommended for a lot of people.

 

[Guzzler]

I get it, it certainly seemed like you were just being modest and encouraging. It was a far cry from saying "why doesn't everyone else do it, what's wrong with people?" I think we've been a bit sensitised to that in this thread

Sorry to bring up the subject again but when terms like courage and determination are used it follows that a person who tries and does not get the desired results from any particular diet lacks those things.

Using the term 'If I can do it anyone can' actually means only 'If I can do it, I can do it' nothing more.

 

[AdamJames]

Sorry to bring up the subject again but when terms like courage and determination are used it follows that a person who tries and does not get the desired results from any particular diet lacks those things.

Using the term 'If I can do it anyone can' actually means only 'If I can do it, I can do it' nothing more.

Yes, I agree. I honestly suspect it was a wording issue rather than an opinion issue from @NewTD2 so just wanted to cut him some slack. But your assessment of the actual words used is one I agree with and one does have to be careful especially on a forum like this.

 

[Pipp]

I am a little envious that this is an option for you. So tempted to try it myself. The reason I won't is one I have posted on this forum before. I will post it again so that others on this thread who may not have read it before can understand my reasons.

11 years ago my teenage son and I caught flu, we didn't eat anything at all for 5/6 days and then the next 5/6 days ate very little (200 cals with perhaps 400 on the last day.) My son, who wasn't overweight to start with, lost 11 and a half pounds. I was morbidly obese and only lost half a pound. It was then that I ( a serial dieter) realised that to keep cutting calories to lose weight was the wrong thing for me personally to do. So I focussed on trying to become healthy instead. I have done some (maybe 3) vlc diets since then (we never learn do we?!) to hopefully shift a few pounds but to no avail. I now try to do my metabolism a favour and eat at least 1200 cals a day (no maximum). I don't want to go back to the bad old days of thinking that the less calories I eat the more weight I would lose. It didn't work out like that for me. For me low carbing (in various forms/diets) is the answer.

Yes, I think the key for some, is to 'confuse' the metabolism. I have been doing that by random and intermittent fasting. My main aim is to maintain the good BG levels. An added bonus would be to lose some excess weight. I am resigned to the fact that some of us don't seem to be able to slot into any particular theory, and so the search for a solution goes on. Some would say that having followed ND in the past I have messed up my metabolism. Perhaps if I had discovered LCHF first I could have used that method and had the sort of success I am often envious about when I read of others having done that. Can't turn the clock back, so will never know. It really is tedious at times, a d those who haven't lived it don't always understand.

 

[DavidGrahamJones]

I find it hard to comprehend why an endocrinologist, a dietician and a GP would sanction, let alone prescribe, a starvation diet.

Depends on the person. It's all very well the dieticians saying you should eat 500 to 1,000 calories a day less than your BMR to lose one to two pounds but what advice do they have when that stops working? None really. Exercise? yep, done that.

Like NewTD2 I have my version of the Newcastle diet and I eat loads of veg, I can resort to several different "shakes" as well, but find the ones I have are a bit high in carb. I am doing it with my GP's approval (she actually said I was one of the few people she could trust) after a decent discussion and the fact that she has another patient who has done the same with great success.

As for coping with VLCDs in general, it was easier for me because I cut down over a period of years. From eating about 2600 calories a day (my BMR as per Harris Benedict) I started with the recommended 500 calories less and nothing happened, then 800 less and nothing happened. A brief encounter with a bariatric surgery support group where they were liquidising chocolate and ice cream to get their calorie intake up to 1200 calories made me think "From 1800, I'm almost there". Then I lowered carb intake without adding fat, which accounted for another 600 calories less, so I was at the magic 1200 calories. Approximately.

The next leap to VLCD was therefore not so tricky, I eat no meat during the week and try to avoid cheese, some days good, some days not so good. Sometimes I feel that I've accidentally ended up on low carb weekday vegan 5:2 diet. Sometimes I do feel like "cheating" and I have been known to have pork ribs for Saturday lunch (decadent) as well as meat for dinner. For me the point of eating normally at the weekend is an incentive to get through the week. Still work in progress.

 

[AdamJames]

Yes, I think the key for some, is to 'confuse' the metabolism. I have been doing that by random and intermittent fasting. My main aim is to maintain the good BG levels. An added bonus would be to lose some excess weight. I am resigned to the fact that some of us don't seem to be able to slot into any particular theory, and so the search for a solution goes on. Some would say that having followed ND in the past I have messed up my metabolism. Perhaps if I had discovered LCHF first I could have used that method and had the sort of success I am often envious about when I read of others having done that. Can't turn the clock back, so will never know. It really is tedious at times, a d those who haven't lived it don't always understand.

I've done a great job of confusing my metabolism over the last few months, but not necessarily in a planned way. I do think that possibly my indecision may have worked wonders in that regard

Re the messed up metabolism thing, after I did a lot of reading around on that subject recently, I wouldn't sweat it. One of the more interesting studies I read compared fast to slow weight loss, and there were pros and cons. Both speeds resulted in a slowed metabolism. The faster speed resulted in a slightly more reduced resting metabolism, but better glucose tolerance and reduced insulin resistance. Take your pick.

This forum must contain a lot of members who have undergone a fair bit of weight loss by various means, and also who keep food logs. I'd be fascinated to know if anyone feels they have gone from obese to normal weight but have anything like the kind of 'maintenance calories' predicted, e.g. 2,500 a day for men.

The way I see it, once one becomes obese, that's the problem right there. The metabolism is in trouble (doesn't matter whether you see it as that the metabolism was in trouble and that's why you became obese, or the other way around, or a bit of both).

Maybe I'm pessimistic, but all the research I've done tells me to expect to need to eat far less than 2,500 calories a day if I ever get to a comfortable weight. I'll be quite pleased if it's 1,600 or more. So you could take the view that it's not the method of weight loss that reduces one's RMR, it's the fact that one has been obese in the past. Also, I don't see much evidence that a reduced RMR is a damaged metabolism. It's a very efficient metabolism, just one that's inconvenient for keeping weight down.