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The Reverse Diabetes Diet

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Paulwbm

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I've just obtained a copy of this book ( see post title) from my local library. It's by Dr Neal Barnard. It seems to suggest a totally vegan diet and is supported by much evidence that such a diet, which is also very low in vegetable oils/fats, can make a dramatic difference for type 2 diabetics. In some cases, complete reversal is considered possible.

Does anyone have any experience of such a diet, good or bad please? I'm newly diagnosed type 2 (Hb1C of 7.4) and looking for a way of fending off the worst consequences of doing little to manage the condition.

I've cut out all sugars, foods containing sugar and gone off all junk food, keeping fats down, eating lots of vegetables. Been on this regime for approx 4 weeks. Lost a little weight already, exercising daily. Feel hungry all the time though but resisting temptation. Also want to avoid diabetes drugs as long as possible.

Any comments or suggestions appreciated.


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Paulwbm said:
I've just obtained a copy of this book ( see post title) from my local library. It's by Dr Neal Barnard. It seems to suggest a totally vegan diet and is supported by much evidence that such a diet, which is also very low in vegetable oils/fats, can make a dramatic difference for type 2 diabetics. In some cases, complete reversal is considered possible.

Does anyone have any experience of such a diet, good or bad please? I'm newly diagnosed type 2 (Hb1C of 7.4) and looking for a way of fending off the worst consequences of doing little to manage the condition.

I've cut out all sugars, foods containing sugar and gone off all junk food, keeping fats down, eating lots of vegetables. Been on this regime for approx 4 weeks. Lost a little weight already, exercising daily. Feel hungry all the time though but resisting temptation. Also want to avoid diabetes drugs as long as possible.

Any comments or suggestions appreciated.


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Hi Paul,

Firstly, congratulations on having such strong resolve and a strong will to help yourself. Sounds like you are doing the right sort of things. Are you seeing a diabetic nurse or your doctor for follow ups? 3 months would be a good idea to get a new Hba1C test and see how your fasting glucose is doing.

Whilst I've not heard specifically of this diet, I came across some research in the States that showed that sticking to a vegan diet (i.e. where the protein comes from plant as opposed to animal sources) can have an effect on Insulin-like growth factor (Igf-1) reducing it and, in turn , increasing the binding protein associated with it. This is useful in holding off cancers of different types (prostate and post menopausal breast cancer to name 2).

I've not read the book you refer to but it sounds like this might well be plausible given how the pathways of Igf and insulin production are interlinked. I'm not medically trained I hasten to add. I just have an insatiable curiosity now that I've am now close to being diabetic:
I've just been identified as "pre - diabetic" with a fasting glucose of initially 7.1, reduced to 5.8 after 12 days on low sugar, low GI carbs only, no alcohol, no processed foods diet a bit like yours. I've added in nuts (seems that cashews are low GI as are peanuts - but watch out if you're cholesterol is high as peanuts are high in fats) and some cheeses and am eating a lot of protein.

I know how difficult it is to find the resolve to keep going. My father had diabetes diagnosed at the same age as me (49) and I. like you, am doing all I can to keep off meds for as long as possible.

Good luck with all your efforts and let us know how that diet works, won't you? :thumbup:

Best,
Suzi
P.S. I've just had an email from Professor Roy Taylor at the University of Newcastle regarding a very low calorie diet used in his study to reverse T2 diabetes. He has suggested I'm a strong candidate so I start tomorrow. You may well have seen this research but more can be found at: http://www.ncl.ac.uk/press.office/press ... cBu-efVDTo and http://www.ncl.ac.uk/magres/research/di ... versal.htm
 
Paulwbm said:
I've cut out all sugars, foods containing sugar and gone off all junk food, keeping fats down, eating lots of vegetables. Been on this regime for approx 4 weeks. Lost a little weight already, exercising daily. Feel hungry all the time though but resisting temptation. Also want to avoid diabetes drugs as long as possible.
Click to expand...

Hi Paul,
I have been a veggie for nearly thirty years, not a vegan though as I still drink milk, but thats the only part of an animal I do consume. I became a type 2 diabetic several years ago. I weighed in at nearly 18 stones and was told the diabetes was with me for life. Two years ago I went on a low fat diet, not too difficult for a veggie to do as I eat very little cheese. I have lost 5 1/2 stones and also my need for diabetes medication. I am not the only contributor to this forum who has experienced this.

One thing I never allow to happen is to go hungry, there is no need for it nomatter what your eating habits, well, none that I can see anyway. I gave up eating very big low fat low calorie meals because I also wanted to shrink my waist size. I admit now that I did eat many foods containg carbs, probably more than I should have but I hadn't found this site then. If I really cut down on carbs I still think I could manage filling meals. Many on this forum have reduced their carb intake to a level that I have nightmares about! You state that you are keeping fats down, that goes against what many would recommend here.

It might help those more informed than me if you listed some of the foods you eat, and what exercise you do. More info please Paul! (I just want to know cause I'm nosey.)

Lee
 
Hi. Many of us on the forum who have found keeping carbs sensibly low might suggest you don't need to cut down on fats so much as cutting down the carbs. It's not just sugar that the body easily converts to glucose whereas fat is converted by a more complex process via the liver. Eat to the meter as they say, so reduce your carbs to the point at which you achieve meter readings within NICE guidelines.
 
Hi Suzi, Lee and Dai.

Thank you for your responses and helpful advice.

Sorry the following post is rather long. Wanted to provide as much info as I could, both for the active respondents and for others who may be reading.


Suzi, may I wish you good luck with the Newcastle Uni diet, it sounds extreme but very likely to be effective. I've read all of the materials on the link you provided and will consider this as a definite possibility. It would be worth the pain! I note that the information suggests that it would be possible to spread the diet over a longer period and possibly make it less arduous.

In case anyone wants more info on the Dr Neal Barnard D Diet, this link provides a downloadable PDF which gives a complete summary. There is also a complete workbook which can be purchased (please see title of the original post on this thread. The book costs around £14 but the detailed PDF is free to download here: http://www.vegetarian.org.uk/campaigns/ ... report.pdf

Lee, thank you for your comments on vegetarian diet. The D Diet also banishes animal fats, including dairy. This is on the basis that the fat inside cells interferes with the insulin's action. I do not think that the book is written with a promote vegan ism bias. This is diet and its underlying rationale are explained in the PDF and more fully in the book.

My current diet is a little bit of a knee jerk response to my diagnosis if I'm honest. I have completely removed all junk food, sweets, sugary drinks, crisps, biscuits, cakes, pastries etc from my life, starting on the day I received my diagnosis, around 4 to 5 weeks ago. I have also stopped eating bread, virtually completely, apart from occasional slice or two of rye bread or pumpernickel. Breakfast is usually porridge oats, real ones, cooked with water. No sugar, very little milk. Blueberries or raspberries to supplement. I used to have 2 or 3 cooked breakfasts per week, bacon, egg etc. Stopped completely! Lunch is salad, I've developed a pea / bean salad approach. Evening meal is either cooked vegetables or more salad, sometimes grilled salmon or occasionally a chicken breast but 5 out of 7 evening meals are currently salad, no meat or fish, pumpernickel bread is often added, 1 slice max. I love salad, so at the moment, I'm not complaining too much but this diet is probably not great and probably not sustainable long term.

Dai, thank you for your point about the low carbs. I will calculate my current total carbs intake and see what it reveals. My current confusion, possibly doubt, lies with the fats. I am 55, a little overweight (76kg) for my height (1.68m or 5ft 6in). I also have high cholesterol (decided not to take the statins in the short term, hoping to bring level down with my change in food habit, please see earlier regarding the junk food, etc). With my current, knee jerk diet, my weight is coming down and people have commented on it. Both the D-diet and the Newcastle diet appear to be low fat as well as low or controlled carb, (in the case of the D-diet). I am metering BG and trying to reduce the levels. My early morning fasting level is averaging at 7.3, with a go-to-bed level averaging 6.9. Not too sure why the waking, is lower than go-to-bed value. My average post meal, 2 hour is 8.2 (breakfast), 8.7 (lunch) and 9.1 (dinner). I usually eat nothing after the evening meal and no alcohol.

I'm also walking and cycling daily, probably averaging 1 hour per day. Increasing this and will also add swimming and also some core strength exercise as soon as I feel up to doing so.

To a newbie, the recommended diet thing is confusing, there appear to be many differing schools of thought about the balance of carbs, fats, proteins. The official guidance seems counter-intuitive to me.

My objective is to fight the good fight, so to speak, and to bring the diabetes under complete control, if I can. I acknowledge that there is officially no cure and that reversal probably only means control.

Sorry the above is rather long. Wanted to provide as much info as I could, both for the respondents and others who may be reading.



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Well done for acknowledging that change is required. As much as you are pleased to see numbers down moving I personally would be absolutely horrified with the post meal numbers you are getting. Have you considered that the high carb porridge that you are having for breakfast is the cause. The lovely eggs and bacon you seem to have given up on would be a much better friend. Porridge in the morning sends me sky high on the meter and keeps me elevated all day.
Watch out for the carbs in peas and beans. Much better to have leafy greens, cauliflower, swede, celeriac. Look up the relative carb values. The Collins Gem is a good reference. Unless you are a veggie then there is nothing wrong with meat or fish. Satiates along with butter added to veg.
Cd
 
Hi Carbdodger. You make a very good point about the porridge and the beans / peas. I've just realised that they contain more carbs than protein! I'm trying to bring the cholesterol down, hence the oats breakfast and the avoidance of the bacon and egg, although I love the latter! I guess I need low carbs and also low fat, given the cholesterol level. My doctor / nurse simply said, focus on whole grain, rather than the simpler carbs and sugars but reduce carbs overall. Otherwise live normally, as long as its healthy. I guess, I'm now looking for a number to follow. x grams carb per day. Actually, I am looking for a long term control or reverse approach. My HbA1C level was 7.4 on diagnosis, only a bit above Suzi (see her post, above). She was considered pre-diabetic. How bad is 7.4 and can I get out of the diabetic zone?

Do you have any opinion regarding the starvation diet approach to she'd weight and improve insulin sensitivity?


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Hi Again Carbdodger. Just bought a copy of the Collins Gem Carb Counter, via Kindle. Looks like it will be of great help, I'm clearly not up on my carbs. Please see also my previous post prior to this one. Cheers. Paul.


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P
I'd never opt for a starvation approach as love my food too much! You might want to read up about eggs as they have lovely fats in them not as some would claim bad things. I have been eating a low carb diet with what some would judge is a high fat content and my CO level has fallen since I changed my diet nearly 3 years ago. I only eat good fats though such as butter, cheese, olive oil, nuts, coconut oil etc. using these as part of my balanced diet I can keep to less than 40 gs of carb a day and lead a very active life. Yesterday for example included an 18 mile round trip to work on the bike and a hour or so work out in the gym.

Mu HBA1C was below 6 when diagnosed. I was (and still am) diabetic. Have you had a GTT? That was what led to diagnosis for me. Way over 14 at 2 hours.

Difficult as it is I've had to throw away years of bad learning about good vs bad food. Learning what is really good lets me control my diabetes such that I can consistently get numbers of a non DB individual.
Living and learning
Cd
 
Hi Cd.

I will take on board your advice and comments. No, not had a GTT up to now. I don't like the idea of a starvation diet either but with the Newcastle Uni diet it might actually be possible to rid oneself of the disease completely, provided that the ongoing lifestyle is healthy. Like you I enjoy food as a positive part of life. The diabetes appears now to be a barrier to enjoying food. Food decisions now seem to dominate my life, or at least preoccupy my thinking.

To what extent do you think the exercise you are doing is helping? Do you think that cure is possible, given one of these diets (new readers, please see top most posts), or is it likely to be fools golds?


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Paul
I will always have diabetes. Apart from a pancreas transplant as far as I'm aware there is no cure. But a great control level is possible. It does require discipline but once you find a new rhythm with your food it will not seem so difficult. It took me a while but I now have a varied diet and have learnt to make low carb alternatives for things like bread, cakes, rice etc. check out the low carb recipe section on here for some great ideas. If you love good quality food you will find changes to low carb meals a breeze. Just look at the worlds best restaurants. Ignoring the dessert menu you will find that the majority of menu choices are lowish carb. With good quality ingredients it is easier to low carb. Those ingredients don't need to be expensive. What about in season veggies? Cauliflower is great right now and SO versatile.
On exercise - I always find that the next day my numbers are lower than without exercise. Marginally so but I'll settle for that.
Cd
 
Hi

I have a copy of this book you mention. After reading it thoroughly I decided it was just looking too difficult for me and I took a gentler approach. I tested lots of different foods to see what they do to my sugars and I base my diet on the foods that bring me to 7.8 mmol/L 2 hours after eating.

For me personally, that means very few oats/ no bread/ very little rice/ very few potatoes/ no pasta at all of any kind/ no breakfast cereals/ no biscuits cakes or pastries unless they are home made low carb recipes which substitute white flour and sugar.

The can have foods are many and glorious. I eat lean meat and fish, loads of vegetables and salads , a bit of cous cous, low carb crackers, nuts, avocados, eggs, some pulses, Greek yogurt, full milk and soya milk, cheeses, rapsberries, strawberries, blueberries, loads of stuff. I don't eat high fat, but I don't worry about fats as much as I worry about carbs.

I think that feeling zealous and ready to give up anything and everything is something that gets harder over time. The restrictions in the book just seemed too restrictive for me. Coping with changing your diet is tough. Changing to a vegan diet, and one from an American book which names certain brands that must be difficult to get hold of here, just seemed REALLY tough.

if all else failed, I might put myself through this, but I think there is a middle way for some people. You just have to find out what food is doing to you first. Then take action!

All the best!
 
Hi Paul
Just wanted to say that I was twice threatened with statins by the diabetic nurse at the surgery, the second time I declined, she threatened to tell the doctor about me ! At my next review, my cholesterol was 'Perfect', I smiled sweetly and said 'Fancy that', but didn't mention the plant sterol supplement I now take (my aunt got the same result).
On the other hand, I try to Low-Carb, and have given up refined sugar, but often fall by the wayside with bread and potatoes. But I do hope to get off the Metformin eventually. Good Luck, wish I had your determination, I did originally.

BarbMc
 
Paulwbm said:
My current diet is a little bit of a knee jerk response to my diagnosis if I'm honest. I have completely removed all junk food, sweets, sugary drinks, crisps, biscuits, cakes, pastries etc from my life, starting on the day I received my diagnosis, around 4 to 5 weeks ago. I have also stopped eating bread, virtually completely, apart from occasional slice or two of rye bread or pumpernickel. Breakfast is usually porridge oats, real ones, cooked with water. No sugar, very little milk. Blueberries or raspberries to supplement. I used to have 2 or 3 cooked breakfasts per week, bacon, egg etc. Stopped completely! Lunch is salad, I've developed a pea / bean salad approach. Evening meal is either cooked vegetables or more salad, sometimes grilled salmon or occasionally a chicken breast but 5 out of 7 evening meals are currently salad, no meat or fish, pumpernickel bread is often added, 1 slice max. I love salad, so at the moment, I'm not complaining too much but this diet is probably not great and probably not sustainable long term.
Click to expand...

That's not a million miles from my story. I began like that but found I could relax it and could eat some other wholegrain products, wholewheat pasta, brown rice, chick peas and pulses. I now eat 2 fish meals, two fowl meals, two red meat meals and one vegetarian meal per week. But, it took me 3 months of sore fingers to learn exactly which brands or food types worked for me. I also eat northern european fruits, apples, pears, cherries, berries.

I like king prawns in an omlette and greenland shrimps in a seafood salad. Arbroath smokies are to die for and, if I could afford it, smoked wild salmon. But, to be honest, I still like the tins of mackerel in spicy tomato sauce which is about 20 times cheaper.
 
HI,Paulwbm :)

I have been on this vegan type diet for one year now. It does work for me and for some reason I am now getting used to it.

I is in no way as hard as many seem it may be. As soon as I mention vegan people think it must be difficult to please me and I am some kind of health freak. Hence me not braggin about how good it is.

As soon as I mention my diet, the response is " I like my meat "

I thought I would give it 3 months to which it worked in every way to control my diabetes. Now I just carry on with it,but the odd cheating here and there (human nature).

All I can say don't knock until you have tried it.

Roy. :)
 
Paulwbm said:
...

To what extent do you think the exercise you are doing is helping? Do you think that cure is possible, given one of these diets (new readers, please see top most posts), or is it likely to be fools golds?


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Exercise is an important factor in BG management; I know this as the night before I started on the ND (Newcastle Diet) I went for a light 20 minute run (not too taxing but I'm overweight so it was hard work) and my fasting BG the next day was down at 4.0mmol/l - even taking into account the +/- 20% margin of error, that means at max it was at 4.8 which is the lowest I've ever been at. And that's just after a light jog.

Some people are more responsive to exercise than others but it's still an important part of lifestyle change needed and is often under-estimated in the management of diabetes.
Those in the know state that exercise has a tail-off effect, reducing BG almost immediately and then up to 48 hours later; it's for this reason that my DN (Diabetic Nurse) thinks I should be exercising every day... this also has a knock on effect with HbA1C levels as well.

CD - concerned that it took a GTT to diagnose you. I have heard that fasting BG can be pre-diabetic but that individuals are diagnosed on the strength of the GTT and am currently reading "The Blood Sugar Solution" by Dr Mark Hyman who states this too. By the time the fasting levels are in danger zone you're already diabetic.
Hmmmmnnnn... wondering if I should request a GTT test just to see what I'm really up against.... thoughts?

Suzi
 
Hi Paul,

In telling you my story, I don't mean to encourage you to follow anything that I have been doing. My main objective here is to encourage you to keep on experimenting with different kinds of foods in combination with daily physical activities. In all the 22 years that I have been a type 2 diabetic, there is one thing I am very sure of: what works for me will not necessarily work for you.

In July 1991, I was diagnosed as a type 2 based on a fasting blood sugar reading of 468 mg/dl. I was supposed to be on several anti-diabetes pills, but I refused to take them. Why? Because a very good friend of mine had told me that his anti-diabetes pills were making him sicker than his diabetes.

After passing a stress test, I was encouraged by our physician to exercise as much and as hard as I could. Since the beginning up to now, I have been exercising 4x/day, 30 minutes each time, before meals and before bedtime. I did stair-running for 16.5 years. When I started feeling pain in my knees, I switched to easier routine. I now do indoor power-walking, modified push-ups, and jogging in place.

The foods I have been eating are mostly carbohydrates but I always see to it that they are heart-healthy, natural, fresh (raw or cooked), unprocessed, and whole. I am very aware that high carb meals are bad for me because they surely cause high fasting and after-meal blood sugar levels. Yes, 4x/day (4 x 365 days x 22 years = 32,000+) since my diagnosis, I have been getting unacceptably high blood sugar levels. Why don't I have any diabetes complications yet? Your guess is as good as mine.

Here is what I think why I am as healthy and strong as I want to be: my 2-hour daily exercise is my best anti-diabetes med. My past A1c's were from 5.2% to 6.3% (the one I got on 6March2013 was 5.8%).

What actually are the foods I have been eating? Potato, sweet potato, corn, basmati rice, oatmeal, nuts, beans, vegetables, fruits which are in season, dark chocolate, fish, shrimps, eggs, Chinese noodles, some skinless chicken, lean pork, lean beef.

What are the foods I have been avoiding? Fatty and oily foods (except olive oil and coconut oil), dairy products, soft drinks, sugary foods, salty foods, foods with artificial ingredients, snacks (only water between meals), alcohol.

Although I have been enjoying life like I have no diabetes, I will always be a diabetic. At the rate I have been eating high-carb meals, I definitely have zero chance of reversing my disease.

When you find time, please read some more about me on Google.

Bonny Damocles
Male, 77 1/2 years old, 139 lbs., 5'7"
A1c's: 5.2% - 6.3%
2-hour daily exercise combined with 3 daily high-carb meals
 
Thank you everyone for your replies, the advice and comments are invaluable to a newbie :sick: .

Cathy - I was put off a bit from adopting the D-diet because it is totally vegan (not that I object to Vegans or vegan-ism - I just like some meat or fish occasionally). I was also surprised that the D-diet does not require low carb, only low GI/GL (contrary to most comments I've seen on this forum that suggest it is the best way to go, low carb).

I have decided to try low carb for the time being - until I am able to control my levels and am confident that I know how foods affect me - combining this with an escalation in exercise and trying to approach normal weight for my height.

Barbara - Statins have such a bad press, trying to keep away from them if I can. I'm sure the press like to emphasise the problems and they are no doubt exaggerated. I will look into natural / plant based alternatives.

Yorkman - I think we have very similar food tastes!

All - I think my longer term plan (6 months or so from now possibly) will be to try and go on something akin to the Newcastle Diet. Nothing to lose by it (apart from weight) and who knows, it might prove to be effective in holding off the worst that diabetes can muster :twisted:
 
Very sorry Izzi, Suzy and Bonnie. When I posted the above, I hadn't seen the most recent posts (did't notice page 2)

Izzi - I will continue to consider this until I decide what strict diet to adopt after I know what foods help my levels, the D-diet isn't completely off the menu (no pun).

Suzy and Bonnie - you both make the point loud and clear about exercise. I am not doing enough and I need to change it today.

Bonnie - Your diet seems to support the D-diet (apart from the meat and fish etc). Awesome exercise record. Will visit your site.

This is turning out to be a great education for me, thank you :D
 
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