This is a much watch for all of us and our families

[Tannith]

They show different diets for different people, Vegetarian, plant-based, and for meat eaters. For meat eaters such as I also, they are advocating the same as what we eat now..Eat good fats, Butter, full-fat Cheese, meat fat berries, full fat milk (Not skimmed) and full-fat plain yogurt. So really they are helping people who cannot face eating meat. Good all rounder I found.

Thank you derry. Maybe we need different diets for different purposes: eg Newcastle for those who want to lose their diabetes permanently, Plant based for those who want to prevent their diabetes recurring after say, Newcastle; ( vegans have very low diabetes obesity and cvd risk); and low carb high fat for those who are happy to keep their diabetes as long as their BGs are controlled

 

[Sue192]

Thank you derry. Maybe we need different diets for different purposes: eg Newcastle for those who want to lose their diabetes permanently, Plant based for those who want to prevent their diabetes recurring after say, Newcastle; ( vegans have very low diabetes obesity and cvd risk); and low carb high fat for those who are happy to keep their diabetes as long as their BGs are controlled

I rather think no-one is 'happy to keep their diabetes.....' Does the Newcastle really lead to losing diabetes permanently? And surely a LCH/MF also prevents diabetes occurring after Newcastle, just like a WFPB?

 

[bulkbiker]

Maybe we need different diets for different purposes: eg Newcastle for those who want to lose their diabetes permanently, Plant based for those who want to prevent their diabetes recurring after say, Newcastle; ( vegans have very low diabetes obesity and cvd risk); and low carb high fat for those who are happy to keep their diabetes as long as their BGs are controlled

Wow that's a bit condescending, judgemental and incorrect.... impressive.

 

[Oldvatr]

Why on earth would you take issue with "It's a must?" It is just a title. For goodness sake

Why? Because it will attract Newbies like moths to a candle, thats why. People with little or no experience of this condition may well be swayed by this as 'official / approved' advice, and not be able to make informed decisions except by using what may be biassed POV and hard sell. My wife was taken in by something similar, and so far the meals I have been made to cook from the expensive course plan have all given me ultra high bgl levels, So I am not impressed by the likes of Greger etc.

 

[Bluetit1802]

Thank you derry. Maybe we need different diets for different purposes: eg Newcastle for those who want to lose their diabetes permanently, Plant based for those who want to prevent their diabetes recurring after say, Newcastle; ( vegans have very low diabetes obesity and cvd risk); and low carb high fat for those who are happy to keep their diabetes as long as their BGs are controlled

What a strange sweeping statement!

 

[Oldvatr]

I do not know why the editing was pronounced. The stance of the program advocates loads of veg, protein and good fats. There was a part of where they condemn being put on medication when diet can turn diabetes around for many. They probably look at different diets that work for different people. The founder of Thrive was talking about keeping away from the foods that we keep away from. Like I said I can only judge it after watching the program.I cannot say whether I think that it is rubbish or not..I just thought that it may be an interesting watch

Here is the info on the Thrive Diet, and the hard sell that goes with it.
https://www.livestrong.com/article/31576-thrive-diet/

 

[Oldvatr]

Here is the info on the Thrive Diet, and the hard sell that goes with it.
https://www.livestrong.com/article/31576-thrive-diet/

There is another review site that claims the Thrive diet costs $300 per month although the sales spiels say $5 a day ($150 pm). They have just launched a Thrive Patch that means you dont have to even eat the stuff. They do meal replacement pills and shakes, all at vast cost, and apparently it is mandatory to have a nutrient bar and a salad every day too. Not sure where the B vitanins will come from. or the folate and iron since the pils and patches do not mention either.

 

[Guzzler]

I would be surprised to hear of anyone who was unhappy with lowered blood glucose levels after having had very high levels. No matter what their choice of diet is.

 

[Fleegle]

Well, that just says it all.

@derry60 i have not watched this but I wanted to thank you for posting it. I hope the experience will not stop you posting in the future. Whether I agree with the content or not - it is great to be informed of different perspectives. I am going to give it a go.

It looked to me as if you were getting a little disheartened by some of the feedback you got. Don't be. Keep posting - be open minded to the pro's and con's and maintain your integrity! I just think it is so important that a wealth of data and ideas are posted here so it doesn't become closed and sterile.

Keep posting - I have been away from here for about four months and it looks like things are the same as they were when I left. I feel another break coming on already and I have only been back really two days...

 

[Tannith]

Why? Because it will attract Newbies like moths to a candle, thats why. People with little or no experience of this condition may well be swayed by this as 'official / approved' advice, and not be able to make informed decisions except by using what may be biassed POV and hard sell. My wife was taken in by something similar, and so far the meals I have been made to cook from the expensive course plan have all given me ultra high bgl levels, So I am not impressed by the likes of Greger etc.

I personally favour the Newcastle diet on which I have recently reversed my T2, but do not want mention of all other diets censored from the site for fear a Newbie might choose a different diet from the one I chose. I think it is better that they see a range of diets so that they can make an informed choice depending on what they want from a diet (reversal, prevention, BG control etc etc. As to the Thrive diet, why should anyone who wanted to go vegan (I don't) do anything but choose plant foods and buy a bottle of multivitamins from their nearest supermarket? Most people are not taken in by these fad diets, partly because most people can't afford them.

 

[Oldvatr]

I personally favour the Newcastle diet on which I have recently reversed my T2, but do not want mention of all other diets censored from the site for fear a Newbie might choose a different diet from the one I chose. I think it is better that they see a range of diets so that they can make an informed choice depending on what they want from a diet (reversal, prevention, BG control etc etc. As to the Thrive diet, why should anyone who wanted to go vegan (I don't) do anything but choose plant foods and buy a bottle of multivitamins from their nearest supermarket? Most people are not taken in by these fad diets, partly because most people can't afford them.

I have no problem with people going vegan in their own way, and it is not a fad lifestyle. I however, object when they use high power sales videos etc to try to sell these diets and plans on this site and on the web (i,e FB or MLM marketing) as the one and only way to CURE T2D. It is their almost religious zeal and pseudo science that they use that is IMHO dangerous for newly diagnosed diabetics, who have probably been advised to lose weight (via Eatwell?????) and who may have never really been on a proper diet before,

To uninitiated people, the use of a High Carb diet to replace Eatwell, and which is also Low GI and uses natural foods, sounds ideal compared to say LCHF which goes against mainstream thinking. So I would usually advocate something like ND or the Mediterranean diet or even South Beach as a starter, since these do have some reasonable track record mileage for diabetics. Then there are a multitude of LC diets that they can discover for themselves later. There are some brave souls here who are using a vegan or vegetarian path combined with LC, and this is difficult to do, but not impossible.

Although I use animal products myself, I am happy that I have increased my veg and nut consumption significantly.

PS one way the Thrive diet scores is that there are many commercial diets that offer shakes, smoothies, bars and pills for weight loss, and Thrive follows this trend but also offers a patch. So pop a pill and lose weight - Simples, no sweat. No food to prepare or cook or wash up after, so it fits in with modern lifestyles. If astronauts can do it.......amd even more so if celebrities endorse it.......

 

[Tannith]

I personally favour the Newcastle diet on which I have recently reversed my T2, but do not want mention of all other diets censored from the site for fear a Newbie might choose a different diet from the one I chose. I think it is better that they see a range of diets so that they can make an informed choice depending on what they want from a diet (reversal, prevention, BG control etc etc. As to the Thrive diet, why should anyone who wanted to go vegan (I don't) do anything but choose plant foods and buy a bottle of multivitamins from their nearest supermarket? Most people are not taken in by these fad diets, partly because most people can't afford them.

PS there are other diets designed for specific purposes eg the DASH diet which is a low salt one for people with high blood pressure; the Pritikin diet for people who want to lower their cholesterol. Most of them also work for weight loss. I think it is up to the individual to pick the diet which best suits their own personal objectives. And within reason, the more diets we hear about the better. And I'm sure most Newbies have as much ability to recognise a fad diet as we do - I would credit them with the same judgement and common sense.

 

[bulkbiker]

And I'm sure most Newbies have as much ability to recognise a fad diet as we do

What do you define as a "fad" diet there are many differing opinions. The world of nutrition advice is a murky one. I'm glad I found this place and its low carb advice early on so I can "keep" my diabetes (in my own case well under control) happily.

 

[Glenmac]

What do you define as a "fad" diet there are many differing opinions. The world of nutrition advice is a murky one. I'm glad I found this place and its low carb advice early on so I can "keep" my diabetes (in my own case well under control) happily.

Without this forum I would have found it difficult to choose a diet for my type 2 diabetes.I agree with you that the world of nutrition advice is a murky one.I only found this site and diet advice after sixteen years of floundering using the standard advice dished out from healthcare professionals.
I was shocked to read on the British Heart Foundation website their list of Fad Diets included Low Carb!I was equally surprised to be informed by my GP that I would never stick to my diet it was a fad diet and any way it was just another Atkins.This without looking at my results,which are at none diabetic levels and meds reduced to one Metformin.Considering I'm eighty this year I'd hoped he would be interested.Im confident enough now to stand my ground.
Many of us tailor the advice on here to suit our individual needs and this "works" for us.

 

[Tannith]

What do you define as a "fad" diet there are many differing opinions. The world of nutrition advice is a murky one. I'm glad I found this place and its low carb advice early on so I can "keep" my diabetes (in my own case well under control) happily.

It was a term loosely used to save longwinded explanations. I meant one of those diets , like the Thrive, heavily advertised by "gurus" who are not too picky about what claims they make. Usually about making money - there is of course a lot of money to be made from selling diets, Most unfortunately Old vatr's wife got taken in by it when she was unwell.

 

[bulkbiker]

It was a term loosely used to save longwinded explanations. I meant one of those diets , like the Thrive, heavily advertised by "gurus" who are not too picky about what claims they make. Usually about making money - there is of course a lot of money to be made from selling diets, Most unfortunately Old vatr's wife got taken in by it when she was unwell.

That is one of my problems with nutrition .... people using loose terms. Long winded explanations are far better where they explain the position people are taking.
Many would consider a "fad " diet to be one where 3 meals everyday are replaced by a manufactured shake.
Others where an entire food group is missed out like WFPB.
That is why I try to refer to a ketogenic way of eating. It's not a "diet" in the temporary/short term sense that most people use it as - it is a diet i.e. a way of eating for life.

 

[Oldvatr]

It was a term loosely used to save longwinded explanations. I meant one of those diets , like the Thrive, heavily advertised by "gurus" who are not too picky about what claims they make. Usually about making money - there is of course a lot of money to be made from selling diets, Most unfortunately Old vatr's wife got taken in by it when she was unwell.

Thank you @Tannith . My wife was caught out in a perfect storm. It happened that she found a video on FB on WFPB and Michael Greger diet at a time when I was having very high blood sugars and was just starting LCHF as an experiment. The Greger diet was reinforced by a friend of hers who was selling food supplements via MLM and who had a vested interest in the same diet.
My knowledge of LCHF was limited by then, and I was fighting the 'establishment' accepted ideology at the same time, and was in the process of unlearning all that I had been taught in the past. So I was not tuned in as I would be now. She only wanted to help me, so she subscribed to the course as a surprise for me, She invested in all the expensive H&B produce and supplememts etc, and we tried a few meals and snacks. My experience was sky high bgl peaks and sustained high bgl levels for some time after. Luckily I had seen what LCHF could do for me by then so I reverted back into it and have stayed there since.

I was a Newbie once, and I was fooled into thinking this might offer a cure as claimed and I could have stayed on it if I had not had a GP who supported self monitoring and that I had also experienced some hints of success just prior on the other diet. So I avoided any harm from my venture down that path. With hindsight I can make a reasoned judgement that High Carb diets are not suitable for me, and going by others experiences reported on the Forum, I am by no means alone in this. I have however not seen much in the reporting of personal stories of success on the Greger diet so I feel justified in challenging when I read claims for the high carb diets without proper evidential backup.

PS Michael Greger shows himself to be a Doctor. Technically he is correct and can use that title, but he is not a medical doctor. His doctorship is an academic qualification in Agriculture following his Masters Degree, He is a plant scientist and guru extraordinaire, but no more qualified than you or I in terms of diabetes management and care.

 

[Tannith]

Thank you @Tannith . My wife was caught out in a perfect storm. It happened that she found a video on FB on WFPB and Michael Greger diet at a time when I was having very high blood sugars and was just starting LCHF as an experiment. The Greger diet was reinforced by a friend of hers who was selling food supplements via MLM and who had a vested interest in the same diet.
My knowledge of LCHF was limited by then, and I was fighting the 'establishment' accepted ideology at the same time, and was in the process of unlearning all that I had been taught in the past. So I was not tuned in as I would be now. She only wanted to help me, so she subscribed to the course as a surprise for me, She invested in all the expensive H&B produce and supplememts etc, and we tried a few meals and snacks. My experience was sky high bgl peaks and sustained high bgl levels for some time after. Luckily I had seen what LCHF could do for me by then so I reverted back into it and have stayed there since.

I was a Newbie once, and I was fooled into thinking this might offer a cure as claimed and I could have stayed on it if I had not had a GP who supported self monitoring and that I had also experienced some hints of success just prior on the other diet. So I avoided any harm from my venture down that path. With hindsight I can make a reasoned judgement that High Carb diets are not suitable for me, and going by others experiences reported on the Forum, I am by no means alone in this. I have however not seen much in the reporting of personal stories of success on the Greger diet so I feel justified in challenging when I read claims for the high carb diets without proper evidential backup.

PS Michael Greger shows himself to be a Doctor. Technically he is correct and can use that title, but he is not a medical doctor. His doctorship is an academic qualification in Agriculture following his Masters Degree, He is a plant scientist and guru extraordinaire, but no more qualified than you or I in terms of diabetes management and care.

"She only wanted to help me, so she subscribed to the course as a surprise for me," Bless! What a kind person she must be! I have read Greger's book but I didn't know he sold supplements. I agree with quite a lot of what he says - especially regarding the good aspects of the polyphenols in plants. But not everything. And in any case whilst a plant based diet might protect against diabetes, I don't think anyone (except perhaps the Thrive guru) claimed it would help once you already had T2. As you say, too many carbs. Shame about the cost of the plant diet but it certainly won't do her any harm if she hasn't already got T2. But there are worse things than the cost. I would be too embarrassed to tell you about all the looney things that I have done in my past manic phases!

 

[Oldvatr]

But there are worse things than the cost. I would be too embarrassed to tell you about all the looney things that I have done in my past manic phases!

We probably have the same T shirts there.

 

[zand]

Thank you derry. Maybe we need different diets for different purposes: eg Newcastle for those who want to lose their diabetes permanently, Plant based for those who want to prevent their diabetes recurring after say, Newcastle; ( vegans have very low diabetes obesity and cvd risk); and low carb high fat for those who are happy to keep their diabetes as long as their BGs are controlled

@Tannith you say you have 'reversed your diabetes by following the Newcastle diet', yet here in this quote you say 'the Newcastle is for those who want to lose their diabetes permanently'. Do you believe you have in fact lost your diabetes permanently or merely reversed it like many of us who follow LCHF and/or IF for example?