Timing of meals and snacks

[CherryAA]

I was on holiday last week, I had a big fry up minus the carbs every day for breakfast, probably close on 1000 calories, then spent the day doing stuff before a smaller meal in the evening with three whiskeys to finish off. So probably eaten 1600 calories but with more exercise than usual.

I was very pleased with my blood sugars during the week, as they seem to be averaging about 6.6 which is orders of magnitude better than three weeks ago.

Since getting home, I have reverted to my previous diet (about 1200 calories 60% fat , 20% protein, 20% carbs) fasting 7pm to 9 am and three smaller meals a day. I was disappointed to find that my averages went up to 7.6 .

Having thought about it a bit, I think the reason is that because I am eating mainly fats and protein, the " spike" after eating is taking longer to appear and dissipate and by eating lunch in the middle of the day that is keeping the entire day averages higher because my body is not getting back to the base level.

I tested that today by not eating lunch and carrying on testing each additional hour. Sure enough the same thing happened and I went back down to 6.6.

So I'm going to try sticking to 2 meals per day within an 8 hour period and fasting the rest of the time.

I would be interested in anyone else's experiences of this.

 

[bulkbiker]

The more I think about it the more I realise that cutting out breakfast completely almost from the day after my diagnosis as well as going very low carb has helped me to bring my sugars under control. I never really thought of it as fasting but in fact I have been not eating for 16-17 hours every day. When I now don't eat for longer periods (some would say what I do isn't really "fasting" ) I get the lowest blood sugars. Give it a go.. I have never counted calories (I think that "dieting" per se slows the metabolism so is a waste of time as well as being self defeating) but I would suggest you cut out a few more carbs if you can.

 

[CherryAA]

Thanks for the feedback.

I'm not actually counting calories per se, I am using a program to record the food I do eat so I know what the content actually is split between carbs,protein and fats - as a byproduct of that I know that the calorie content happens to be about 1200 of which between 30-40 grams is net carbs.

At this level of intake my weight loss seems to be fairly consistent and in fact is pretty much exactly in line with the predicted weight loss for this level of food and on keto I'm not hungry either so it a question of choosing foods with about this level of nourishment rather than feeling I must have it as it was before on a low fat diet.

Whilst I understand that counting calories is not that important on the LCHF diet , as a woman who has been trapped in a cycle of 1000 calorie a day diets for years, my body does not seem at all pleased if I go much above that - and any days where I have eaten more than 1200 - e.g. 1600 on a high fat diet are the days when I have lost nothing. My thinking has been that whilst the LCHF diet is not calorie counted, it is naturally low calorie because if you truly do take it at its word and only eat when actually hungry then one could easily eat far less than 1000 calories ( there have been a couple of days when applying that principle I only ate about 600 calories) .

I can fairly easily get to this 30-40 grams of carbs with 2 decent interesting meals of varied foods I like to eat and not be hungry. I'm struggling to see 20 grams as being doable and enjoyable long term unless I just switch to omelettes both meals ( my breakfast is circa 10 carbs) . If you don't mind me asking what kind of things do you use to keep down to the 20? and also what are you actulaly eating to lose the weight which I see you have been doing very successfully ? Also would it be right to assume you do the 6 hours then have two meals, or are you restricting yourself to one only? and do you eat any snacks?

The more I think about my old low fat diets , the more I realise just how damaging they were, not only was it 1000 high carbs no fats, but it was also grazing with tiny meals all day long to try and keep the hunger pangs under control. Its kind of inevitable that on the basis I would end up with a very high average blood sugar level because I never gave the carbs a rest. All that food was " good carb" being mainly vegetables , just far too much of it.

The more think about it the more i think that having good long rest between each meal, and a long time overnight , is a must with Zero snacks but making the meals themselves both reasonably substantial and of similar carb size if I can is a good approach. I'm happy to try the fasting in more serious way eventually but for now I'm still getting used to the fridge door being off limits other than twice a day .

 

[bulkbiker]

I eat meat, fish, green veg, and salad - double cream in coffee and the lowest carb milk I can find in tea. I used to use Soya milk but stopped after some keto people advised that it wasn't great. Most keto dieters that I "know" (via facebook) seem to do less than 20g of carbs per day.
For a treat I may have a scoop of Oppo ice cream with a few raspberries topped off with double cream.
Last night for example I made a pork meatloaf wrapped in bacon which we had with cauliflower puree. For lunch I had some leftover cold lamb and a bit of cheese.
Not sure how much you know about keto but I found the 2ketodudes podcasts, website and facebook page a mine of information as well as being pretty friendly.
http://2ketodudes.com

I also fast quite regularly (just having a fortified coffee daily plus regular drinks - that's with double cream and coconut oil) for anywhere between 2 and 7 days. This seems to have rebooted my weightloss after a bit of a plateau.
Some people may say I am a bit extreme but hey it seems to be working ok for me...
Hope that helps
Regards
Mark

 

[DavidGrahamJones]

Thanks for the feedback.

I'm not actually counting calories per se, I am using a program to record the food I do eat so I know what the content actually is split between carbs,protein and fats - as a byproduct of that I know that the calorie content happens to be about 1200 of which between 30-40 grams is net carbs.

May I ask which program you are using? I have something called "Weight by Date" on my desktop which has been very useful for measuring carbs and calories. I hear what people say about not having to count calories and when you cut carbs down to say 50 gms that's a huge chunk of calories not being consumed anyway.

Like you I followed the calorie restriction, low fat diet to try and lose weight and although I was eating much less than my BMR (calculated using the Harris Benedict formula) the weight never went. It did when I stopped taking Rosiglitazone but stopped and reversed a bit when I took Gliclazide. Lost again when I cut carbs but "plateaued" as dieters like to say.

I've even had my BMR checked on an apparatus that measures oxygen breathed in and CO2 breathed out and it agrees 100% with the calculation (the calculation possibly being wrong). So I feel like a scientific enigma. I eat less than my BMR but don't lose weight. Maybe I absorb calories if I'm within 2 feet. LOL Maybe I extract more calories out of everything I eat (I do have a lengthy intestine, discovered when I had a colonoscopy with apparatus that wasn't long enough).

 

[Brunneria]

Hi,

@CherryAA have you come across Jason Fung? He has written some interesting things about basal metabolic rate (accompanied by some excellent references to studies on the subject) in his book The Obesity Code. Showing how basal metabolic rate adjusts (as yours has done after long term 1000cal)

The same info is available for free on his blog Intensive dietary management, but I'm afraid I don't know which blog entry.
https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/


Just thought you may be interested to know that while long term low calorie eating will lower basal metabolic rate, it is also possible to raise it again (which I consider to be excellent news. )

 

[CherryAA]

Thanks for this feedback. I have been ploughing slowly through Dr Fung's brilliant lectures and it's that, that has made me understand the damage I did in my LFHC 1,000 calorie diets. In fact I did one of those 18 months ago, lost 10 kilos and then put that 10 kilos back on again the following year. I think that might be what finally " broke" my poor system which has been fine for years despite being overweight.

I know that my metabolic rate is compromised at present which is why I know if I do go over 1200 I'm unlikely to lose any weight.

My thinking is that if I do stick to 1200 but make it 2x 600 ish LCHF meals, then my body might start to respond to more "normal" meals and maybe start letting me increase them a bit over time. Before I ever ate 300 calories at a sitting it would be pushing it,so I've totally lost track of "normal eating" and 600 calories feels like a huge meal to me. I've now lost that same 10 Kilos again but this time on the keto method with 60% fat 20% protein and 20% carbs.( av 41gross, 31 net) ( my carb limit is currently actually set at 40 net, the program just adds extra fat to any " spare" calories following exercise.) . I'm such a novice at finding low carb, things, it not being something I ever checked before. I decide to stick to the 40 for now while I experiment with new ideas of eating.

The weight loss is pretty much tracking exactly a standard calories in/ out methodology - i.e. about 1200 per day deficit , so 2 lbs / 1 kilo per week weight loss.

The system I chose is call Cron-o-meter
https://cronometer.com

The reason I like it is that it specifically starts out with the idea that Keto is best, so carbs are shown as red, fats as green , which makes a pleasant change. You can set the percentages it is measuring against by reference to different diets - i.e. you could set it at strict keto 20 g carbs, or a more moderate style , or other styles and then it will reference what you did against that. The database and app is specifically American though there is enough on there for me to get by because in the main I'm not using anything processed. ( especially when I found out that a rutabega is a swede! ( I have asked them to add in a UK database which is " on the to do list "

As well as tracking all the standard stuff, it also allows you to track medical bio-metrics including HDL BP etc and to insert your own definitions - so for example instead of just blood glucose I set mine up to have separate ones of + 1 hr + 2 hrs bed and morning . Finally you can accumulate reports by periods so you can look at the cumulative effect of the various foods on your minerals etc for a week, month, or longer period and look at average intakes etc. All in all it seems like a great progam though you do need the "gold" version if you want to organise by meal in a diary instead of a list for the day. I think that was $99 life membership - which I figured I was stuck with - though you can use it much cheaper as a test.


On the learning front today I was quite amused in the supermarket today, I was looking for something " snack " like that I could offer my guests that if I did have a couple of wouldn't be a total disaster and getting nowhere. Then suddenly I realised the things I am looking for will have three red lights high including high fat,saturates and salt and one green low sugar ! made it much easier. How one earth we have an entire country being advised of this stuff incorrectly is just bizarre.

 

[Salvia]

I eat meat, fish, green veg, and salad - double cream in coffee and the lowest carb milk I can find in tea. I used to use Soya milk but stopped after some keto people advised that it wasn't great.

Hi @bulkbiker - I have recently 'discovered' soya-type stuff: milk and a yogurt alternative & am in process of trying them out to see if I like them better than the real thing. I don't like ordinary yogurt, and full fat milk I find is too sweet, having used skimmed milk for donkeys years. The soya milk has about half the calories of the skimmed milk. Did the keto people say why the soya wasn't great?

 

[bulkbiker]

Hi @bulkbiker - I have recently 'discovered' soya-type stuff: milk and a yogurt alternative & am in process of trying them out to see if I like them better than the real thing. I don't like ordinary yogurt, and full fat milk I find is too sweet, having used skimmed milk for donkeys years. The soya milk has about half the calories of the skimmed milk. Did the keto people say why the soya wasn't great?

I was having some difficulty getting into nutritional ketosis which they said could be the soya milk so I stopped having it and ketosis did indeed become easier to achieve. I have recently tried unsweetened hemp milk which seems ok but only in coffee mixed in with double cream (in tea it's disgusting) and have also had almond milk but didn't like the taste so now use lactofree full fat milk which has some carbs (about 2.7g per 100ml) but I just use less of it.

 

[Brunneria]

Yeah, I had hemp milk for the first time this weekend. In tea.

:***:

 

[Salvia]

+Thanks for the explanation @bulkbiker, that's useful. I'm not trying for ketosis especially, so I think I'll carry on with my tests for now to see how I get on. Though, since you mention some other options, I give them a try as well - cheers