To lie or not to lie?

[busydiabeticmum]

I’m in the “no lies” camp too. You are confident that low carbing did not affect your previous child. I feel that high blood sugars would be more harmful. I’d be inclined to say next time they ask, that you had a previous low carb pregnancy without problems and refer them to your previous hospital team for confirmation, then politely say that you don’t want to discuss your diet anymore and request that your notes are marked accordingly (I have done similarly with my refusal to take Statins and they are rarely ever mentioned these days!) Your actions will not only help you but may well educate your current team on low carbing during pregnancy. Best of luck with the rest of your pregnancy and please tell us how you get on.

Thanks, I made a complaint with the consultant midwife who is trying to deal with them, I am reminded every week that if I don't control my bgl my baby is at risk of being too big and having to have her shoulders broken to be removed, still born and have problems with her lungs... I have refused several medications and asked that this not be discussed too, however they do every week. I have explained exactly what you said to each member of the team and they never answer me but go back to are you adding the carbs like we said... they call me several times a week inbetween hospital visits and it's really frustrating.

 

[wiflib]

Unfortunately I can't go to the other hospital, I tried that last time, though they were brilliant it was just too far, If I went into labour I wouldn't be able to get there in time... I would give birth in the car and still be over an hr away! it was a huge decision to make because I really don't like this, I didn't tell them until I was in my 3rd trimester and only because I knew I had to do it for the baby's health.

The problem is I see a consultant and several diabetic midwives... they all think the same thing. I gave that information to all of them and it's like I've said nothing. I stood my ground and told them I disagree with their theory and want to limit the amount of medication I take... after all that they are still calling me asking if I am adding the carbs "like they said"... it's patronising and condescending.

In previous pregnancies that I was with them for (not including the last one) I was eating less than they wanted (I just can't eat that much!) I was on huge amounts of insulin several times a day and would have hypos between meals while still having too high readings after meals. My babies were born with rds and they would say it was because I wasn't controlling my bgl and told me I was eating too much, it really made me cry everytime they told me to cut back on food when I was starving hungry.
The diet I'm on means I have great control of my bgl and I'm not starving myself, I told them this, but it sounds like it goes in one ear and out the other. I don't want to lie because I don't want them to think that their way of doing it worked and was right (remembering how they made me feel b4) but the stress they are putting on me is not good for the baby and is making me feel sick to the point of not being able to eat. I think it's a huge dilemma that a lot of diabetics go through with a team like this.

I’d lie through my back teeth and ask to see the head of Midwifery and make sure there is a copy of your notes from the previous hospital. I’d decline any further input from the diabetic team until that happens.
Show what you’ve written here and describe how harassed, stressed and unsupported you are. If I were closer, I’d be advocating for you too.

I agree with you, the potential harm to you and your baby is from the stress of all this and I’m ashamed that I was part of a profession who still bullies women.

 

[wiflib]

Thanks, I made a complaint with the consultant midwife who is trying to deal with them, I am reminded every week that if I don't control my bgl my baby is at risk of being too big and having to have her shoulders broken to be removed, still born and have problems with her lungs... I have refused several medications and asked that this not be discussed too, however they do every week. I have explained exactly what you said to each member of the team and they never answer me but go back to are you adding the carbs like we said... they call me several times a week inbetween hospital visits and it's really frustrating.

That is called shroud waving and a nasty form of control that bad practitioners use to elicit compliance. The next time someone calls, answer and tell them you are complaining to the NMC/GMC about their bullying.

 

[Brunneria]

If you have already written a letter of complaint, and it is in process, then I suggest that you print out copies of that letter, with another covering letter, referring the recipient to the consultant dealing with your complaint.

Then every time someone contacts you by phone, ask them for their name, job title, email or postal address, and tell them that you are sending them a complaint letter.

If they harrass you in a group, or singly at appointments, just pull the letters out of your bag and hand them out, asking for the name and job title of each person.

Be sure to mention 'scaremongering' 'harrassment' 'bullying' and 'emotional blackmail' in your covering letter.

Obviously, you don't go around threatening people with these. You act perfectly polite and compliant until they start in on you with the pressure, and then you respond, politely, by handing them the letter and explaining that this subject is not open for discussion. Then refuse to engage further until the subject is changed.

 

[Member496333]

I would tell them to stick their orders where the sun don't shine, and put in a formal (written) complaint if they continue to harass.

 

[Brunneria]

and, further to my post above, you need to document every single encounter (phone, letter, email, meeting) with all staff, and if they start in on the 'eat more carbs like we told you', then you just record who said what, and when, and add it to your complaint.

I completely accept that there are a lot of medical professionals who genuinely believe that carbs are necessary to keep the brain functioning and help you grow a healthy baby. That isn't actually the problem here. The real problem is that you are being systematically harrassed in what looks like a campaign by a whole health team. If it looks like a bully, and talks like a bully...

 

[busydiabeticmum]

That is called shroud waving and a nasty form of control that bad practitioners use to elicit compliance. The next time someone calls, answer and tell them you are complaining to the NMC/GMC about their bullying.

And @Brunneria
Thanks... the problem is they make it seem like you have to choose which department you fight, they made HUGE errors with my last baby born there, nearly killed him several times. I had to watch my newborn crash after he was over ventilated and bled from his lungs, I had to watch him as he then crashed with all his organs shutting down one by one, his arteries collapsed and they needed an arterial line in so they had to open his umbilical cord to get some lines in and there was no time for pain relief for him so I again had to watch as he was sown up and flinching with each stitch! They then gave him the wrong medication, contaminated him by giving him another baby's dummy to shut him up because they couldn't be bothered to feed him, weren't changing his nappy, then again gave him the wrong medication again this time medically inducing him into a hypothermic state for over a week. I developed ptsd and still get flashbacks. They blamed me for all this because my bgl weren't controlled even though I followed their diet.
I refused to go back to that hospital and was able to go to a better one... it was just too far though.
I have already had an interview with the head of midwives but I was made to feel like I needed to concentrate on one thing to be dealt with and so I concentrated on NICU... since then the care I received is even worse and mistakes that are being made are being swept under the carpet (I actually have this in text form from one of the midwives).
I will be taking my husband with me for the next appointment so hopefully my voice will be heard, I just get a bit worried that if I say something I will be treated worse than I am now. But I know my husband is better at this sort of thing than I am.

He's telling me to stand my ground and not let them push me down and while he's right it's quite hard to do when you are in such a vulnerable situation.

 

[busydiabeticmum]

and, further to my post above, you need to document every single encounter (phone, letter, email, meeting) with all staff, and if they start in on the 'eat more carbs like we told you', then you just record who said what, and when, and add it to your complaint.

I completely accept that there are a lot of medical professionals who genuinely believe that carbs are necessary to keep the brain functioning and help you grow a healthy baby. That isn't actually the problem here. The real problem is that you are being systematically harrassed in what looks like a campaign by a whole health team. If it looks like a bully, and talks like a bully...

Thanks I will do that.

 

[busydiabeticmum]

A few reference points worth taking next time maybe?

I know they are all from the same site, so maybe one would be helpful in educating them. Or you may well already have your own, ridiculous to be in the position you are in.

https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/pregnancy

https://www.dietdoctor.com/pregnant-heres-some-reading-for-you

https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/gestational-diabetes-pregnancy

No one can force you to eat a certain way, if you are being constantly bullied then perhaps you could consider changing hospitals if possible or telling them to jam it or make a complaint.

If your blood work is looking good in general, then it would seem your way of eating isn't harming you?

Those were really informative thank you for sharing them.

 

[Listlad]

Wasn’t there a thread a while back where it was posted that baby is in ketosis in the womb?

Yes there was:

Human breast milk has carbs in the form of oligosaccharides, these are a tad different.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_milk_oligosaccharide

Babies in the womb are in ketosis as are babies fed exclusively on the breast. Then of course, we the parents wean them onto such goodies as baby rice and Farleys Rusk...

 

[DCUKMod]

Yes there was:

Do you have a link to the thread, rather than just Guzzlers post? Whilst I'm sure Guzzler's post and link are excellent, a whole thread can help add context.

 

[Listlad]

Do you have a link to the thread, rather than just Guzzlers post? Whilst I'm sure Guzzler's post and link are excellent, a whole thread can help add context.

Press the arrow next to Guzzler in the quote box and it takes you back to the thread.

 

[busydiabeticmum]

Yes there was:

@DCUKMod , thanks that link is great and actually something I know about... but the link doesn't refer to ketosis... is there another link for that?

I am in hospital on Thursday so I'm loading up ready... I would really love that they change their system. I'm feeling really optimistic about that now thanks to everybody here. Thanks for the help and support.

 

[Rachox]

Yes there was:

This is link is talking about breast feeding, whereas this thread is about the affect of the pregnant mother and the affect of her keto diet on her unborn baby. Am I missing something?

 

[Listlad]

This is link is talking about breast feeding, whereas this thread is about the affect of the pregnant mother and the affect of her keto diet on her unborn baby. Am I missing something?

The Guzzler statement was of course that the baby is in ketosis while in the womb.

“Babies in the womb are in ketosis...”

In this thread the question arises at one point about the conditions in the womb created by the mother avoiding carbs. Post #1

“... they told me I will loose my baby that it creates an acidic environment for baby and that she doesn't like being in that environment.”

Hence the relevance.

 

[busydiabeticmum]

This is link is talking about breast feeding, whereas this thread is about the affect of the pregnant mother and the affect of her keto diet on her unborn baby. Am I missing something?

And @Listlad thanks listlad, yes I need about pregnancy, I know breastfeeding is absolutely amazing and we have only just scratched the surface but to convince them that I'm not killing my baby or hurting her I will need scientific evidence as not even my own success is enough for them.

 

[busydiabeticmum]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3685567/

Everything I found says that I am harming my baby!!! It is all negative... but it doesn't make sense, my last son is fine, could this be a case of "exception not the norm"?!

I just google keto diet in pregnancy... I am seriously questioning myself now... how can the the links shared by @Tophat1900 coincide with these "scientific"findings... it is contradictory!

 

[Member496333]

...I will need scientific evidence...

I wouldn't worry too much about that. Scientific evidence, or lack thereof, has never stopped anyone else prescribing murderous dietary advice. Governments are particularly good at it. I'd be asking for scientific evidence (not parroted opinion) that your diet will harm your baby. They won't be able to cite any.

 

[busydiabeticmum]

I wouldn't worry too much about that. Scientific evidence, or lack thereof, has never stopped anyone else prescribing murderous dietary advice. Governments are particularly good at it. I'd be asking for scientific evidence (not parroted opinion) that your diet will harm your baby. They won't be able to cite any.

The ncbi link I shared is scientific research about the effect of keto diet in pregnancy... but it's an experiment on mice which I don't think can truly reflect upon humans. At the same time though I am having that nasty feeling in my stomach! If anything goes wrong I have only myself to blame.

 

[Member496333]

The ncbi link I shared is scientific research about the effect of keto diet in pregnancy... but it's an experiment on mice which I don't think can truly reflect upon humans. At the same time though I am having that nasty feeling in my stomach! If anything goes wrong I have only myself to blame.

It also seems as though the fats used were predominantly polyunsaturated seed oils. As is typical of these types of studies, they tend to use the very fats/oils that most well-informed keto proponents avoid like the plague.