Too much protein

[Mr Hairyman]

I was diagnosed T2D three weeks ago.
Have gone low carb since then. I've had Keto breath a few times, but no Keto flu, which to me suggests I'm bouncing in and out of Ketosis.

I only found out yesterday that if you are properly following Ketogenic, you should aim for about 70% of your food to be fats. I had been going about 50% protein, 40% fat and 10%.
I'm now trying to move towards more fat and less protein - but I was wondering how much it affects a ketogenic diet? Can too much protein prevent weight loss? After a barnstorming first two weeks, I've lost nothing this week - feels a shame as in the last week, my net carbs have def been under 50g each. I swim for 30 mins a day, and have been in calorie deficit.

Advice on this, and suggestions for more fat and less protein ideas are much appreciated

 

[AndBreathe]

I was diagnosed T2D three weeks ago.
Have gone low carb since then. I've had Keto breath a few times, but no Keto flu, which to me suggests I'm bouncing in and out of Ketosis.

I only found out yesterday that if you are properly following Ketogenic, you should aim for about 70% of your food to be fats. I had been going about 50% protein, 40% fat and 10%.
I'm now trying to move towards more fat and less protein - but I was wondering how much it affects a ketogenic diet? Can too much protein prevent weight loss? After a barnstorming first two weeks, I've lost nothing this week - feels a shame as in the last week, my net carbs have def been under 50g each. I swim for 30 mins a day, and have been in calorie deficit.

Advice on this, and suggestions for more fat and less protein ideas are much appreciated

Are you in ketosis on your current metrics?

Personally, I Have never chased the perfect ketosis - even if such a thing exists. I chased decent blood sugars, feeling well, without too much of a physical and mental burden on my life or the lives of those around me.

 

[Resurgam]

I was diagnosed T2D three weeks ago.
Have gone low carb since then. I've had Keto breath a few times, but no Keto flu, which to me suggests I'm bouncing in and out of Ketosis.

I only found out yesterday that if you are properly following Ketogenic, you should aim for about 70% of your food to be fats. I had been going about 50% protein, 40% fat and 10%.
I'm now trying to move towards more fat and less protein - but I was wondering how much it affects a ketogenic diet? Can too much protein prevent weight loss? After a barnstorming first two weeks, I've lost nothing this week - feels a shame as in the last week, my net carbs have def been under 50g each. I swim for 30 mins a day, and have been in calorie deficit.

Advice on this, and suggestions for more fat and less protein ideas are much appreciated

Although I do add in a small amount of extra fat I suspect that I scrape off more from the pans before washing them. I just eat things which are naturally fatty - I roast a whole chicken rather than select the leanest parts, I eat beef and pork and lamb, fatty fish - they all come with the natural fat.
I did not have 'keto flu' on any of the occasions I returned to a low carb diet after being forcefully encouraged to eat a high carb diet. It is a perfectly natural thing to swap from using glucose to using ketones - and at the start of eating low carb it is likely that you will be emptying out reserves of glucose and that is not a bad thing at all - in my opinion.
Some days when things were difficult I ate only meat or fish - one week in lockdown I ate only eggs for 5 days out of the 7 I don't think I suffered any ill effects - I certainly survived quite a few bouts of covid despite being classed as at risk.
Actually - you have been in calorie deficit for a little while - that might be the cause. I could never lose much weight on low calorie diets. I would go pale and have less energy, my heart rate reduced and temperature lowered, I slept longer. Sort of a semi hibernation effect to conserve energy.
After I was diagnosed with type 2 I ate low carb but did not restrict calories. I am told that I am down 70lb from my highest weight recorded at the surgery - I was almost spherical after eating a high carb diet for almost 2 years, but I have never had a GP who accepts that I can't cope with all those 'healthy' starches.

 

[ianf0ster]

Like @AndBreathe I don't believe in Keto for Keto's sake.
I wonder where you you that 70% from. I don't have a daily target for Protein or Fat, just a range for carbs which is between 20gms per day and 40gms per day for me and is based upon my BG Meter. 40gms being around the highest my body will easily handle and 20gm being something to help me l if/when I notice a slight weight gain.


You may have seen things like this
*********************************************************************************************************************************************
Generally, popular ketogenic resources suggest an average of 70-80% fat from total daily calories, 5-10% carbohydrate, and 10-20% protein. For a 2000-calorie diet, this translates to about 165 grams fat, 40 grams carbohydrate, and 75 grams protein.
********************************************************************************************************************************************
But unless you are well under-weight, once you have adjusted to low Carb, your body will use body fat just the same a dietary fat. So if you need more fat to produce Ketones for energy, your body fat will be used . It's possible for obese people to just use body fat for energy for longer than just days , so that 70% of calories used being from fat could theoretically be as low as 0% from diet and 70% from body fat!

I need to fast for medical procedures (fasting for 3 days continuous every 2 yrs) while I do that I'm in ketosis though I'm eating zero calories because I'm using up body fat.
Keto Breath isn't really a good thing - It shows that you body isn't using all/most of the ketones it produces.
When you are fully 'fat adapted' you are either in Ketosis or able to switch in and out of it with several times per day without any noticeable effect apart from not actually getting hungry - so fasting or skipping meals becomes easy. Then you only eat when you want to, not because you have to.

Even if you are keen on Keto, I think 3 weeks is too soon to be considering reducing carbs to below 20gms per day - which is what it takes (on average) to be in continuously in Ketosis. This is partly because the body needs time to adjust (both to Ketosis and to lower Blood Glucose which can cause temporary vision problems if reduced too fast).

 

[LittleGreyCat]

I'm wondering how you are measuring the amount of protein and fat?
For example a lean steak has a surprising amount of fat included, and with fibre the actual protein count is a lot lower than expected.
Random search gives:
Filet steak
100 grams is 40 grams protein and 40 grams fat.

 

[Brunneria]

Hi,

Apologies if I am teaching you to suck eggs, but when you say 70% fat, you are meaning 70% of Energy, not by weight of food, yes?
It is a very common misconception when people start calculating their macros.
The macros I started with (during my very short number crunching phase) was 80% E from fat, 15% E from protein, and 5% E or less from carbs.

having said that, when I think of keto macros, I try to avoid micromanaging anything - gets very old, very fast!
I just minimise (eliminate) fast releasing carbs, eat enough protein, and then eat fibre (lots of lovely keto friendly veg) and/or fat (depends on weight loss goals) to prevent me getting too hungry before the next meal. Wanting to snack just means my meals are too small.

When I say enough protein, I just let my appetite govern the quantity.
The body has a well developed ability to gauge protein needs, with hunger and appetite on one end of the gauge, and heavy, claggy loss of appetite and slow digestion when you over do it.

 

[AloeSvea]

Yes, indeed re @Brunneria's great post above.

I also say - eat as much protein as you want - and can afford, (especially in these inflation/high cost of food times).

But protein is one of those things - your desire for it can be well alligned naturally with your needs, and we sure need protein to thrive. From whatever way of eating one has chosen.

 

[ianf0ster]

I was diagnosed T2D three weeks ago.
Have gone low carb since then. I've had Keto breath a few times, but no Keto flu, which to me suggests I'm bouncing in and out of Ketosis.

I only found out yesterday that if you are properly following Ketogenic, you should aim for about 70% of your food to be fats. I had been going about 50% protein, 40% fat and 10%.
I'm now trying to move towards more fat and less protein - but I was wondering how much it affects a ketogenic diet? Can too much protein prevent weight loss? After a barnstorming first two weeks, I've lost nothing this week - feels a shame as in the last week, my net carbs have def been under 50g each. I swim for 30 mins a day, and have been in calorie deficit.

Advice on this, and suggestions for more fat and less protein ideas are much appreciated

I just noticed that you seem to be asking about weight loss - which is a different subject than ketosis.
Weigh loss can stall for a week or more for many reasons, particularly when you are in a calorie deficit!
The problem with a calorie deficit is that if you misjudge it, your body can think you are in a period of starvation (rather than fasting) and thus reduce your metabolic rate meaning you need fewer calories when resting. This has several bad effects: feeling more weary, feeling colder, brain function less sharp because the brain is a very large user of calories. But from the weight loss aspect, a lower metabolic rate means unless you cut calories even more than your metabolism has slowed, you will lose less (or even no , weight, or worst case actually gain weight).
This is why I only ever advise either Low car, or Very Low Calorie diet - not both and not a moderate calorie reduction - it has to be big enough to force the body into ketosis rather than make it think slowing metabolism is all that's required!

 

[Robbity]

I don't "do keto" but I do eat a low carb ketogenic type diet, and for fuel eat some carbs for glucose, but my main fuel comes from dietary or occasionally stored body fat and resultant ketones. My feelings are that a perfectly normal way of eating is currently being converted into some money spinning fashionable Keto Diet.
(I've not actually experienced low carb/keto "flu" as I grew up in the 1940s-50s eating fat rather than the more recent trend of scoffing endless carby snacks for my main energy needs.)

I tend to agree with @Brunneria, regarding protein and eat normal amounts of/enough of it, as dictated by my body's requirements,

 

[Mr Hairyman]

I'm wondering how you are measuring the amount of protein and fat?
For example a lean steak has a surprising amount of fat included, and with fibre the actual protein count is a lot lower than expected.
Random search gives:
Filet steak
100 grams is 40 grams protein and 40 grams fat.

I measure it using MyFitnessPal.

 

[Mr Hairyman]

Hi,

Apologies if I am teaching you to suck eggs, but when you say 70% fat, you are meaning 70% of Energy, not by weight of food, yes?
It is a very common misconception when people start calculating their macros.
The macros I started with (during my very short number crunching phase) was 80% E from fat, 15% E from protein, and 5% E or less from carbs.

having said that, when I think of keto macros, I try to avoid micromanaging anything - gets very old, very fast!
I just minimise (eliminate) fast releasing carbs, eat enough protein, and then eat fibre (lots of lovely keto friendly veg) and/or fat (depends on weight loss goals) to prevent me getting too hungry before the next meal. Wanting to snack just means my meals are too small.

When I say enough protein, I just let my appetite govern the quantity.
The body has a well developed ability to gauge protein needs, with hunger and appetite on one end of the gauge, and heavy, claggy loss of appetite and slow digestion when you over do it.

I dont know what you mean by this?

"but when you say 70% fat, you are meaning 70% of Energy, not by weight of food, yes?
It is a very common misconception when people start calculating their macros.
The macros I started with (during my very short number crunching phase) was 80% E from fat, 15% E from protein, and 5% E or less from carbs."

 

[Mr Hairyman]

I just noticed that you seem to be asking about weight loss - which is a different subject than ketosis.
Weigh loss can stall for a week or more for many reasons, particularly when you are in a calorie deficit!
The problem with a calorie deficit is that if you misjudge it, your body can think you are in a period of starvation (rather than fasting) and thus reduce your metabolic rate meaning you need fewer calories when resting. This has several bad effects: feeling more weary, feeling colder, brain function less sharp because the brain is a very large user of calories. But from the weight loss aspect, a lower metabolic rate means unless you cut calories even more than your metabolism has slowed, you will lose less (or even no , weight, or worst case actually gain weight).
This is why I only ever advise either Low car, or Very Low Calorie diet - not both and not a moderate calorie reduction - it has to be big enough to force the body into ketosis rather than make it think slowing metabolism is all that's required!

Really I'm asking about how ketosis and weight loss work together and how too much protein v fat can affect that. I'm not going starvation low with my calories

 

[SuzaneSmith]

Macro nutrient ratios can vary. However in general the ratios are usually high fats (70-80% calories) , carbs (5-10% calories) and protein (20-25% calories).
Relying too much on protein can potentially be converted into glucose through a process called gluconeogenesis, which can interfere with ketosis. Your diet should include High fats such as scrambled eggs cooked in butter, fatty fish (like salmon), steak drizzled with olive oil, Greek yogurt. Lean meats such as chicken(for protein). For 5% carbs you can rely on broccoli, cauliflower, and spinach.

 

[Marianne67]

I was diagnosed T2D three weeks ago.
Have gone low carb since then. I've had Keto breath a few times, but no Keto flu, which to me suggests I'm bouncing in and out of Ketosis.

I only found out yesterday that if you are properly following Ketogenic, you should aim for about 70% of your food to be fats. I had been going about 50% protein, 40% fat and 10%.
I'm now trying to move towards more fat and less protein - but I was wondering how much it affects a ketogenic diet? Can too much protein prevent weight loss? After a barnstorming first two weeks, I've lost nothing this week - feels a shame as in the last week, my net carbs have def been under 50g each. I swim for 30 mins a day, and have been in calorie deficit.

Advice on this, and suggestions for more fat and less protein ideas are much appreciated

It’s confusing isn’t it. I have recently switched to carnivore after watching a few people on YouTube.

I eat mostly 1 meal a day, mostly beef, steak, eggs, bacon and sardines. eat until I am satisfied, don’t count calories, or portion control.

Edited to add. It’s different for everyone, I am still working on fixing my insulin resistance which does stall weight loss a bit.

 

[ianf0ster]

Macro nutrient ratios can vary. However in general the ratios are usually high fats (70-80% calories) , carbs (5-10% calories) and protein (20-25% calories).
Relying too much on protein can potentially be converted into glucose through a process called gluconeogenesis, which can interfere with ketosis. Your diet should include High fats such as scrambled eggs cooked in butter, fatty fish (like salmon), steak drizzled with olive oil, Greek yogurt. Lean meats such as chicken(for protein). For 5% carbs you can rely on broccoli, cauliflower, and spinach.

I agree that too much protein and too little fat can defeat the purpose of going Low Carb because of gluconeogenesis ( the making of glucose from Protein). But unless particularly low fat protein diet is selected ( i.e avoiding beef, bacon, eggs, dairy etc ) then this is unlikely to occur.

 

[Mr Hairyman]

I agree that too much protein and too little fat can defeat the purpose of going Low Carb because of gluconeogenesis ( the making of glucose from Protein). But unless particularly low fat protein diet is selected ( i.e avoiding beef, bacon, eggs, dairy etc ) then this is unlikely to occur.

So yesterday (for example), I had net carbs of 30g.
Fat and protein were about 155g each. Just curious if I should be pushing the fat up and protein down to aid keto in doing its thing.

 

[ianf0ster]

While 155gms of protein is high (unless your target healthy weight is also very high), I can't see any need to eat more fat per day So long as you Blood Glucose figures are on target 9 meals/snacks not giving spikes over 2 mmol at the 2hrs after eating, then you are doing fine. Many people get the t2 Diabetes sorted first before all the weight comes off and it's still very early days in your case!
It must have taken several years to gain that weight and become Type 2 diabetic, so although it can be reversed more quickly it isn't an overnight process!