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Totally confused - type 2 diabetes

S

Scoop2432

Member
Messages
5
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Hi I have recently been diagnosed with type two diabetis . It was caused by prescribed steroids. I have tried to find out as much as I can but keep getting conflicting and contradictory results. I have to take tablets to help control things. I saw a doctor a diabetic specialist on tv this morning he said that carbs should be left alone. Yet I go on another diabetic web site that says that's nonsense and to eat carbs or toast for breakfast sandwich for lunch and soup and a roll for dinner. I joined their forum and recieved loads of advice telling me to do this and that. I want that information from a dr or a dietician. But all the professional advice I come across is contradictory. I might as well throw a coin in the air to decide the carb issue. Then there's the sticky subject of blood testing . What should my readings be again all I can find out is Totally different everywhere you look. i don't have the first idea where to go with this?
 
Hi @Scoop2432 and welcome to the forum.

I am going to tag @daisy1 to provide you with some basic information which includes recommended blood sugar readings.
 

Hello
I'm very new to this, so I'm sure that lots of people with much more experience will be along to give you good advice, but all I can say on the carbs issue is to read about it and then test. If your blood sugars go up when you've eaten carbs, then that indicates that you should probably try to avoid carbs as much as possible.

So far I've found that ordinary bread (eg wholemeal sliced) pushes my BS very high. I haven't eaten other carbs since diagnosis, apart from lentils (I love lentils) and a small portion is ok for me. I know other people however can't eat pulses without their BS going up.

There is very contradictory advice from professionals, which suggests that there is no "right" answer. Personally, I followed advice on here about buying a meter and testing before and after every meal, and that has been really helpful.

I've also found everyone on here to be really helpful and supportive, and happy to answer questions.

Good luck
 
Welcome. The information that Daisy will post is very useful. When you get conflicting advice it's usually best to decide what actually works for you. I hope you find the answers you are looking for. I think this is a brilliant website with many supportive friendly people with first hand experience.
 
Hi @Scoop2432 What you need is a blood glucose meter. Can you get one on prescription? If not there is one called the Codefree you can buy online.
I don't know much about steroids and BG but I think @pleinster does, maybe he can help?
 
As someone who as reveresed there diabetes and there a loads of others on this site, just by following a LowCarb diet,my advice is stick around here an learn how control BG
 
@Scoop2432

Hello and welcome to the forum Here is the information, as promised, which we give to new members and I hope you will find this helpful. Ask as many questions as you want and someone will be able to help.

BASIC INFORMATION FOR NEWLY DIAGNOSED DIABETICS

Diabetes is the general term to describe people who have blood that is sweeter than normal. A number of different types of diabetes exist.

A diagnosis of diabetes tends to be a big shock for most of us. It’s far from the end of the world though and on this forum you’ll find over 150,000 people who are demonstrating this.

On the forum we have found that with the number of new people being diagnosed with diabetes each day, sometimes the NHS is not being able to give all the advice it would perhaps like to deliver - particularly with regards to people with type 2 diabetes.

The role of carbohydrate

Carbohydrates are a factor in diabetes because they ultimately break down into sugar (glucose) within our blood. We then need enough insulin to either convert the blood sugar into energy for our body, or to store the blood sugar as body fat.

If the amount of carbohydrate we take in is more than our body’s own (or injected) insulin can cope with, then our blood sugar will rise.

The bad news

Research indicates that raised blood sugar levels over a period of years can lead to organ damage, commonly referred to as diabetic complications.

The good news

People on the forum here have shown that there is plenty of opportunity to keep blood sugar levels from going too high. It’s a daily task but it’s within our reach and it’s well worth the effort.

Controlling your carbs

The info below is primarily aimed at people with type 2 diabetes, however, it may also be of benefit for other types of diabetes as well.
There are two approaches to controlling your carbs:

  • Reduce your carbohydrate intake
  • Choose ‘better’ carbohydrates

Reduce your carbohydrates

A large number of people on this forum have chosen to reduce the amount of carbohydrates they eat as they have found this to be an effective way of improving (lowering) their blood sugar levels.

The carbohydrates which tend to have the most pronounced effect on blood sugar levels tend to be starchy carbohydrates such as rice, pasta, bread, potatoes and similar root vegetables, flour based products (pastry, cakes, biscuits, battered food etc) and certain fruits.

Choosing better carbohydrates

Another option is to replace ‘white carbohydrates’ (such as white bread, white rice, white flour etc) with whole grain varieties. The idea behind having whole grain varieties is that the carbohydrates get broken down slower than the white varieties –and these are said to have a lower glycaemic index.
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/food/diabetes-and-whole-grains.html

The low glycaemic index diet is often favoured by healthcare professionals but some people with diabetes find that low GI does not help their blood sugar enough and may wish to cut out these foods altogether.

Read more on carbohydrates and diabetes

LOW CARB PROGRAM:
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/low carb program


Eating what works for you

Different people respond differently to different types of food. What works for one person may not work so well for another. The best way to see which foods are working for you is to test your blood sugar with a glucose meter.

To be able to see what effect a particular type of food or meal has on your blood sugar is to do a test before the meal and then test after the meal. A test 2 hours after the meal gives a good idea of how your body has reacted to the meal.

The blood sugar ranges recommended by NICE are as follows:

Blood glucose ranges for type 2 diabetes
  • Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
  • 2 hours after meals: under 8.5 mmol/l
Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (adults)
  • Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
  • 2 hours after meals: under 9 mmol/l
Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (children)
  • Before meals: 4 to 8 mmol/l
  • 2 hours after meals: under 10 mmol/l
However, those that are able to, may wish to keep blood sugar levels below the NICE after meal targets.

Access to blood glucose test strips

The NICE guidelines suggest that people newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes should be offered:

  • structured education to every person and/or their carer at and around the time of diagnosis, with annual reinforcement and review
  • self-monitoring of plasma glucose to a person newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes only as an integral part of his or her self-management education

Therefore both structured education and self-monitoring of blood glucose should be offered to people with type 2 diabetes. Read more on getting access to bloodglucose testing supplies.

You may also be interested to read questions to ask at a diabetic clinic

Note: This post has been edited from Sue/Ken's post to include up to date information.
 
Hi and welcome. Yes, very confusing isn't it. Those professionals who say to have loads of carbs either don't have diabetes or haven't clue about the body's metabolism. Many of us have glucose meters and we know the effect of carbs on blood sugar. I'm on insulin and I have to match my insulin to my carbs - I wonder why! Carbs are converted to glucose in the stomach and are then available to be used as energy or stored as fat. If the body can't use insulin properly or doesn't produce enough the carbs are stored as fat and/or blood sugar is raised. As a generalisation, a non-diabetics normal blood sugar is around 6 mmol and should stay within 8-9 mmol 2 hours after a meal. If it goes into the teens 2 hours after a meal then you probably have diabetes. The HBa1C blood test is a really good measure and needs to be below around 47 mmol. In the end the best thing is to 'Eat to your meter'
 
Hi Scoop. I was diagnosed with what all my doctors and my specialist refer to as "steroid induced diabetes" as a result of post renal transplant treatment with the steroid Prednisolone among other anti-rejection drugs. There are some doctors (possibly born in the Jurassic period or stuck defending the vague outmoded NHS position, or simply led by the conservative medical middle) who say the steroids "probably" just triggered a condition that was in there waiting to emerge anyway. I now have no doubt that that is rubbish as my doctors are all renal or diabetes specialists, and I was warned before the transplant that Prednisolone does "cause" increased blood sugar, often leads to what they called "new onset diabetes" if treatment is more than a couple of months. There was no diabetes in my family, I was not overweight or anywhere near the categories generally associated. It was nothing at all to do with "lifestyle" as is true of lots of people who end up diabetic.

There is some research indicating that Steroid Induced Diabetes may (MAY) be reversible if the steroid treatment is brief enough in length as what can be diagnosed as Type 2 is not exactly the same as non-steroid induced. In my case, the drug has been reduced from 25 mg to 5mg with little effect, and I was on Gliclazide pills (with little effect) and I may be on it for life..but my levels did come right down generally despite a spike a couple of hours after taking my steroid...and not by medication (which I stopped)...but by very low carb dieting alone. My blood sugar level on diagnosis was above 20.0 mmols and didn't drop very much until I cut carbs. "Normal" range I consider to be between 4.3 and 6.8mmols. Now my levels (still on the steroid and not on meds for diabetes are seldom above 7.0 except for a morning spike which was hitting around 8.5. Interestingly, I just persuaded my doctors to cut my steroid to 2.5 mg...and guess what? No readings above 7.4 (including spike) and my kidney is healthier on low carbs (as found I what's called a creatinine level). So..don't stress yourself - it's just something to deal with. Inform yourself as to what a low carb diet is, get a self-testing meter (buy one if you have to, whatever rubbish you are told about not needing to), record your readings before and 2.5 hours after food (readings should be similar unless too many carbs in the food), and record the food itself (so you cna see what works and what doesn't)..and you WILL get the levels down. Who knows? Maybe you'll even get past it...others have.

My questions: what was your level on diagnosis? What is it on average now (if you have a meter or have been tested)? What was/is the steroid? And are you prepared to get stuck in to it all to take control back? Anything at all I can help you with..don't hesitate. This site is great - use it and pass on what you learn. I knew very little about the impact of food until joining. Paul
 
Hi Scoop, I've got exactly the same problem., I was diagnosed at the end of November/ December. My T2 was caused by me taking a three month course of Prednisolone for arthritis. My diet was ok on the surface because for some reason when I started the prednisolone I went off junk food, chocolate etc big time so the nurse was happy that my diet was ok and she and my doc were confident things would go back to normal when the steroids were out of my system.

After watching my diet and seriously increasing my exercise I began to think that if my diet had been that good why was I tipped into T2 so easily.

I did some research - lots of research! I found a great book about Reversing T2 Diabetes by Dr David Cavan. Read it fr over to cover and bought myself a blood glucose meter and started to 'eat to the test'. I have worked really hard at reducing my blood glucose figures. I record everything I eat and have eliminated everything that spikes my blood. I don't ever eat snacks or anything at all between meals only water - I never eat sweets, cakes or biscuits etc, I drink water, decaf tea or coffee, the odd tiny glass of red wine and never diet drinks or fruit juices, I also went totally gluten free back in September when I started the steroids.

By testing before and two hours after eating and recording everything I ate discovered that the 'healthy' foods I was eating weren't quite as healthy as I thought they were. My GF oat bran breakfast muffins made a huge spike, oatcakes - the same, my handy favourite quick lunch of jacket potatoe and salad - big spike too. I haven't had another HbA1c yet - it's due next month - but according to my meter I'm averaging out at 5.5 which I'm hoping will be fine.

I absolutely hate to think what my results would be if I followed the dietary advice I was given and had carbs - bread, rice, potatoes etc with every meal. Having seen how my body reacts to grain based carbs there's no way I would want to eat them again.

All I can say is thank goodness I discovered Dr Cavan's book and this site, I still eat carbs and according to my Fitbit, I eat quite a lot but they're not the carbs that cause me problems.
 
Firstly I would like to thank everyone who replied to my post. The more I look into diabetic advice and guidelines it just gets more and more confusing. I think the best advice I have had is to try and work it out for myself. The only thing with that is how. I like many others I imagine was given a glucose meter by my GP s surgery . I get the test strips on prescription so I thought all I have to do is eat sensibly and check to see what foods affect my blood sugars etc etc you all know the drill most of you advised me to do it again thanks . Here is the problem I was testing my fasting blood one morning and it seemed high 9.1 . I knew I had washed my hands and had done the procedure as well as I could. I tested again and there was a two point difference from the first result. I tested again and again and each time a different result. I then thought maybe the machine needs calibrating. I again carried out the calibration test crossing al the Ts and dotting all the Is . To my surprise each time I calibrated the machine a different result. The result just has to fall within a three point range on the test strip tub.
I thought about this and pondered if the calibration can differ between three points then consequently so would my bloods. I did a little research and found that the machine the NHS uses complies with a guideline which changed in 2013 . This guideline just requires that machines are 15% accurate 95% of the time . So I started to do some number crunching this is what I came up with.
If my machine reads 6 it could be 5.11 or 6.89
If my machine reads 7. It could be 5.95 or 8.05
If my machine reads 8 it could be 6.8 or 9.2
If my machine reads 9 it could be. 7.66 or 10.34
That's if the machine is performing within the guidelines and I'm lucky enough to be testing in the 95% area and not the 5% outside the area.
That is problematic enough but then as I have found out there are many , many other factors that give inaccurate readings. Everything from temperature to altitude , humidity, test strip batch differences , leaving the top of the test strips , washing hands dust, the list goes on and on . I thought the dietary advice was confusing but this leaves me totally and utterly baffled as to what to do. I am told I should aim to have a fasting blood sugar reading of between 4 and 7 before meals . But when you look at the inaccuracy of the 15% then add in all of the other problems with accuracy how can I possibly hope to get anything like a sensible reading that will give me an indication as to what my blood sugars are.
I contacted the company and showed them the same figures, I hoped they would get back to me and tell me I was wrong . I was looking for reassurance that the tests I carried out were accurate. They did no more than inform me that their machine falls within the 2013 guidelines. You know the one that says the machine only has to be accurate within 15% and then only 95% of the time. They kept asking me to telephone them and they would help me with my concerns . I contacted them again , and asked again was I mistaken and again no reply to my questions , just the offer of a new machine and new test strips and the phone call.
I have read countless accounts of diabetics in the uk and the states who have tested with two and three machines on the same day in the same environment and totally different figures from each machine.
How on earth are we supposed to ward off kidney failure heart problems , loss of appendages , blindness , if the only way of checking ourselves is to test with a machine that is just not able to give me and you adequate advice. How will I ever know if I'm between four and seven in the morning how am I supposed to work out if I'm below eight two hours after eating. The company who make the machine couldn't tell me I did ask. Whew that was the most I have written since school. All joking aside I am genuinely worried . I'm given a machine and given numbers to work to only to find out that it appears I'm fooling myself.
I'm beginning to believe this testing thing is just a sort of pat on the shoulder there there this will make it all better sort of thing. Now go away and everything will be ok. I can't speak for any one on insulin this system may help them more than someone like me tablet controlled type two. I have read dozens of related articles about this and it's not just me , there are many highly qualified specialists who have reached the same conclusion as I have the machines don't even tell half a story add in all the other variables that affect testing and we don't have a hope of getting accurate or close to accurate figures. I just wish that whoever is running the diabetic road show within the NHS get their act together ,with dietary advice , sensible figures to work with knowing how poor the testing system is it really needs looking at. When you consider how often type two diabetis is mentioned in the news as being a huge drain on resources , mainly blaming individuals for poor management of their condition. How on earth can individuals manage this disease when we are given conflicting diametrically apposed advice and the only tool we have to help us just isn't up to the task. That's it diabetic for only a few months and totally disalusioned by the whole industry .
 
Wow @Scoop2432

You have done a lot of reading, and I think you are worrying about little things instead of the overall picture.
Testing is all about seeing trends and also what foods do to you.
An individual reading only gives you an approximate reading.
A month of readings around what you eat gives you an idea what is bad and what you can tolerate.
A low carb diet will gradually lower your overall hba1c test readings, that's the one for the three monthly average, that your doctor or dsn takes bloods for.
That test is the one that relates wether you are prediabetic or diabetic.
There is a thread sticky you can read about blood glucose monitoring on the RH forum.
You are in the experimental period and which I found to be so educational and informative, and you learn so much about your body.
Hope this helps
Oh yeah, anything that makes you anxious will raise your blood glucose levels!!!!
 

Yup - it's hard to stay optimistic when everything that is supposed to support you (eg. medical advice and general medical practice) is so flawed, and when private business controls the market (including of course drug companies) but, and maybe I was just born cynical, you can never simply rely on such things as your sole way of controlling things for yourself. Large organizations and industries national or private will always be flawed (due to human failing, lack of single direction, lack of effective management, or even plain greed..and certainly due to direct and indirect political impact and agenda)...nothing new there. I take everything you have said and agree and sympathise BUT also take what @nosher8355 has said as very valid indeed. What counts for us is to use what we have available in ways which empower us to individually take control of our own situations. Until aliens give us options and a weedly-wee machine to sure all health issues...we do our best with what we have...but we should also keep complaining and being annoyed rather than complacent and dead as a stone to what's going on. A little bit of stress about what's ****...lets us know we are alive..but too much kills us!
 

Unfortunately that is exactly why very few actually manage this condition well. But if you check out the low carb success stories thread in this forum, there is a 7 yr track record of how effective that can be. More reliable that mice comparison I would think
 
Welcome @Scoop2432
I am from Australia and had been around the world looking at forums before I settled here. I highly recommend it.

Just one thing to start. Get a meter and self test.Everyone here agrees on that and then you can see if you are improving or getting worse and you can test the foods you consume to make your own decisions on your diet. It all starts with self testing
 
It is really simple as somebody on the forum summed it up just remember CARbs are Evil. ...... Take CARE
 
I have decided to give up on the search for an accurate or close to accurate or even within the ballpark of accuracy blood glucose meter. It therefor follows I will never know if I'm in range of the magical between 4 and 7 before meals and the equally mystical below 8.5 two hours after eating. After eating my carb free or not carb free meal depending on what advice I take that morning or my saturated fat meal or non saturated fat meal again depending on advice . I have decided to carry on as I was before steroids gave me diabetis, if I go blind or my foot falls off what the hell at least I tried to do it right but failed miserably . Please don't reply to this post as once posted I'm off I just cannot see the point of good carbs bad carbs good saturated fat bad saturated fat , get below this figure get above that figure with no means of doing so . diagnosed at the end of January totally disalusioned by the end of March.
 

Sorry - I replied. that's shame you're so hacked off with it all..and understandable too. I wish you well and hope at a later point maybe you come back to consider some changes again. To say we have "no means to do so" in relation to lowering our blood sugar just wouldn't be accurate though...otherwise many many people like me would not have managed to do so. Accurate machines or not...low carbing does lower it (fact) and it is measurable by comparison of readings..and evident in the HbA1c test your doctor does (measuring the average level over the last 3 months...very accurately). Then again, I do get your thinking...when I was first diagnosed with the start of renal failure at 17 (totally unrelated to diabetes), I decided to ignore it, thinking to hell with changing my life so dramatically...I could get knocked down by a bus any time. of course, as "luck" would have it, I never got hit by a bus and my kidneys did chuck it nearly 40 years later...I probably could have postponed that by maybe another 15 years had I reconsidered. If you are still here and reading this..don't be upset by me...just trying one more time is all.
 
Sorry as well, @Scoop2432, but I'm also going to reply.
I'm a believer in " a problem shared is a problem halved", and this forum is a great place to do just that, so here's my tuppence worth.
I haven't really disagreed with anything you said; the BG monitors are infuriatingly inexact, and using two, consecutively, will usually give conflicting scores. However even a confirmed sceptic like me could see the difference between my starting HbA1c of 104 or 15.9 mmol/l and an innacurate reading of between 7.6 and 10.3. I was making progress within the first week, and THAT was a massive boost to me.
We all have to make up our mind on the question of the low carb, high fat approach. But I would rather read about the success of what I believe are real people on these boards, than say, rely on a glossy ad with a Dr Nick character. Suppose you WERE to test yourself before and after eating something, you need only look for a spike or lack of, to see if that something was doing you harm. Surely that's no bad thing?
Being diagnosed with diabetes is certainly no picnic and can be likened to the five stages of grief - Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression, Acceptance.
After only about eight weeks, I'm not prepared to say which stage I've reached. But I'm staying here. All the best.
 
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