Transition to real food post newcastle diet

[Brunneria]

Hi Brunneria

I only have lower bg's that where I began when I have something real sweet like the mouse I had or cake, if i eat salad I am higher than where I started.

That fact alone makes it worth you reading that thread!

 

[badgers_mum]

Low Calorie food supplemented diets really need to be carefully considered!

About ten years ago I did the Lighter Life diet, as did three of my friends. You had to have a BMI of over 30 to be accepted on the diet and regular monthly blood pressure check ups with your doctor. You were given three different food 'choices' a day to eat, and cognitive behaviour therapy to explore why you 'over-ate'. It took a lot of heartache and willpower to achieve my goal but in three months I lost 3 and a half stone. I felt great, was a size 12 (with a new wardrobe!) and was looking forward to a new life as a slimmer, healthier person. However, as I had been in ketosis, and whilst I felt energised, it was hard to start eating 'normally' again,even with their 'guidance'. Also, there are downsides to being in ketosis (e.g. my hair came out in clumps until I had been eating normally again for a few weeks - quite distressing!). As soon as I did start to eat 'normally' again, with a healthy diet, the weight piled straight back on and more! As hard I tried, my body just seemed to convert everything I ate into fat. I now weigh two more stone than when I first started the Lighter Life diet and ALL my friends have had the same thing happen to them. it wasn't just me!

The Lighter Life diet is an ultra low calorie diet that, when I did it, uses their own food supplements (shakes, bars and soups) to maintain a calorie intake of 500 calories a day so this seems similar to the Newcastle diet. Worryingly, it was after I started to put the weight back on whilst trying to maintan a normal healthy diet that I first started to get the symptoms of diabetes.I now have type 2 with high blood sugar levels of 10mmol + throughout the day, am struggling, even with a healthy diet and exercise, to get those blood sugars down and lose weight.

I am not blaming Lighter Life for my diabetes but, looking back, I deeply regret doing what I did to my body. I filled it with additives from the food 'supplements' and now feel that I poisoned my system.

I now honestly believe that the best way to eat healthily to help my body recover is to eat natural, non-processed food with no additives. I have started to really cut back on the grains in my diet (I have an intolerance to oats but not wheat) and am hoping that eating in this way with a reasonably low carb diet (not ultra low though) will help me control my blood sugars and lose weight.

Please, really consider what you are putting in to your body in the way of artificial processed 'supplements'. Our livers have to work hard to process these 'unnatural' additives.

The ultra low calorie diet and artificial food supplements was the worse thing i could have done to my body, something I feel i will have to live with for the rest of my life. I wish i knew then what I know now!

 

[Brunneria]

Low Calorie food supplemented diets really need to be carefully considered!

About ten years ago I did the Lighter Life diet, as did three of my friends. You had to have a BMI of over 30 to be accepted on the diet and regular monthly blood pressure check ups with your doctor. You were given three different food 'choices' a day to eat, and cognitive behaviour therapy to explore why you 'over-ate'. It took a lot of heartache and willpower to achieve my goal but in three months I lost 3 and a half stone. I felt great, was a size 12 (with a new wardrobe!) and was looking forward to a new life as a slimmer, healthier person. However, as I had been in ketosis, and whilst I felt energised, it was hard to start eating 'normally' again,even with their 'guidance'. Also, there are downsides to being in ketosis (e.g. my hair came out in clumps until I had been eating normally again for a few weeks - quite distressing!). As soon as I did start to eat 'normally' again, with a healthy diet, the weight piled straight back on and more! As hard I tried, my body just seemed to convert everything I ate into fat. I now weigh two more stone than when I first started the Lighter Life diet and ALL my friends have had the same thing happen to them. it wasn't just me!

The Lighter Life diet is an ultra low calorie diet that, when I did it, uses their own food supplements (shakes, bars and soups) to maintain a calorie intake of 500 calories a day so this seems similar to the Newcastle diet. Worryingly, it was after I started to put the weight back on whilst trying to maintan a normal healthy diet that I first started to get the symptoms of diabetes.I now have type 2 with high blood sugar levels of 10mmol + throughout the day, am struggling, even with a healthy diet and exercise, to get those blood sugars down and lose weight.

I am not blaming Lighter Life for my diabetes but, looking back, I deeply regret doing what I did to my body. I filled it with additives from the food 'supplements' and now feel that I poisoned my system.

I now honestly believe that the best way to eat healthily to help my body recover is to eat natural, non-processed food with no additives. I have started to really cut back on the grains in my diet (I have an intolerance to oats but not wheat) and am hoping that eating in this way with a reasonably low carb diet (not ultra low though) will help me control my blood sugars and lose weight.

Please, really consider what you are putting in to your body in the way of artificial processed 'supplements'. Our livers have to work hard to process these 'unnatural' additives.

The ultra low calorie diet and artificial food supplements was the worse thing i could have done to my body, something I feel i will have to live with for the rest of my life. I wish i knew then what I know now!

That is EXACTLY how I feel about them. I went through the cycle several times, during the 80s and 90s. Wish I hadn't. The effects on my metabolism are still with me (my thrifty gene is on steroids!).

 

[badgers_mum]

As a postscript to this, after I had lost this weight, I decided to train with them as a consultant/therapist, holding groups of my own. I went on their introductory day, had a short interview and was accepted. I paid, from memory, £2500 to go on their training course and realised after the first day that this wasn't an organisation that wanted to help people, it was a business that was only interested in how to make money out of overweight people. It wasn't for me. Maybe they have changed their ethos now. I am not saying the Newcastle Diet is the same but people should really question the science behind these diets.

How can filling your body with artificial supplements help your liver and pancreas to recover. All you are doing is adding to their already overloaded (coping with high blood sugars) workload. Whilst you may lose weight, it is the after effects that should be explored before these diets are hailed as the new best thing.

 

[Bewildered]

Hi, just an update. I saw my GP yesterday, I already knew my results, HbA1c down from 88 to 42, since 4 months ago. From December my weight is down 3st 7 lb, BMi from 36 to 27. I did, loosely, 6 weeks on slim fast and low carb for the rest of the time. I lost 1 st while on slim fast and I have lost a couple of lbs since I stopped 5 weeks ago. While I do not advocate adding chemicals to the body, I thought I would give myself a go as it is such a short while.
My GP is very impressed with me, he knew I was going to try the Newcastle Plan, so we reduced my medication before starting. I am still taking 2g Metformin, so my next plan is to maintain a normal HbA1c for next tests and then reduce. However, I have now added some supplements so if my bg goes low enough I may end up reducing the Metformin earlier.
Plan from now - regular meals, low carb, organic where possible, cinnamon, glucobalance, vegepa, milk thistle and Vit D3 (as I am low) - a nutritionalist recommended the supplements. Plenty of water, pilates, and I have put my name down for a gym course.
I am feeling very positive right now.

 

[brettsza]

Well done bewildered and really nice numbers there all around, now it's time to think about eating low carb and exercise and maintain the weight and bg numbers. All the best.

 

[Steve50]

Hi Guys

I'm post Newcastle Diet - but maintaining a low bmi is a struggle. I'm going back on the diet for a couple of weeks to see how this goes. Has anyone tried this recently? I mean dipping the toe back in for just a week or so - for weight maintenance?

 

[Arab Horse]

Hi Guys

I'm post Newcastle Diet - but maintaining a low bmi is a struggle. I'm going back on the diet for a couple of weeks to see how this goes. Has anyone tried this recently? I mean dipping the toe back in for just a week or so - for weight maintenance?

What about the 5:2 diet? That seems to work for some.

 

[Steve50]

What about the 5:2 diet? That seems to work for some.

Hi AH

Yep - tried that. It was good - but I think I stored up on the 5!

 

[Borzoi]

I'd think that transitioning straight into normal eating post NCD would be a disaster.

My doctor and nutritionist strongly recommended as following:

-Phase 1:Newcastle Diet, very light exercise (2 months)
-Phase 2: Low carb or ketogenic with moderate exercise (2-3 months)
-Phase 3: Portion controlled, 5 meals a day with regular exercise (Moving forward)

Transitionining out would take about 3 months. If you went back to eating normally after such an extreme diet your body will probably store everything it consumes as fat, including the visceral (Aka organ fat) kind that causes insulin resistance.

 

[AloeSvea]

Why 5 meals a day? And I am no fan of portion control! (Although I do portion control fruit, sadly.) And definitely not deliberately under eating as a regular thing. Is Phase 3 the lifelong part? My feeling is it might take you some time to come to a phase 3 that suits you and your appetite.

 

[Pipp]

Unfortunately many people see ND as a quick fix miracle solution. ND is the start of a process, not the complete process. The time one is following the very low calorie intake is the ideal time to consider what eating regime to follow post low calorie phase.

For those of us with T 2 diabetes, I believe the primary concern is to maintain the 'reversal' (if that has been achieved). By that I mean BG levels consistently below diabetic levels, despite increase in food consumption.

I would recommend regular testing of BG levels and weight, whilst gradually increasing amounts and types of foods. This should, initially be for at leadt as long as the fasting phase of the ND. By being this vigilant one can notice any fluctuations and take remedial action should any type or portion size show increases in weight or BG. Thereafter one should not become complacent. Test BG and check weight at leadt one or two days a week. More often for BG, especially after food high in carb. This way it is possible to nip in the bud any potential increase in BG levels or weight.

If one returns to the same diet and lifestyle prior to undertaking ND then it is inevitable that the diabetic BG levels will return.
It is all in the Newcastle study papers by Prof Taylor et al.

 

[Borzoi]

Why 5 meals a day? And I am no fan of portion control! (Although I do portion control fruit, sadly.) And definitely not deliberately under eating as a regular thing. Is Phase 3 the lifelong part? My feeling is it might take you some time to come to a phase 3 that suits you and your appetite.

5 portion controlled meals a day keep your body metabolising constantly, and full throughout without crazy highs and lows with blood sugar levels. Nutritionists typically recommend this approach to diabetics over 2-3 meals a day, which can result in sugar spikes, especially if long breaks are taken between meals or if you overeat due to prolonged hunger.

This could also be interpreted as 3 meals 2 snacks, from a more moderate level. Pip has the right idea-The ND diet is not a quick fix, but part of a process. It's a reset that gives you a chance to get on the right track from ground level.

 

[AloeSvea]

Yes. And I believe satiety issues, and appetite issues (hormone regulated - like everything!) are more complicated than the ND study papers deal with. (And why would they? Not in the confines of the study after all.) I had some indication of this when first hearing, from Prof Taylor himself, in a lecture accessed online, that the worst part of two months of semi-starvation is that it is "bothersome", and the next worst thing is, for those using the supplements, is that the food is boring. I can absolutely vouch that I for one did not experience two months of under-eating as merely bothersome. (Dr Fung, of intensive diet management and fasting fame also likes to underplay the suffering involved in coping with hunger.) I mention this, one because I am a stickler for the truth, but also, because it is a crucial aspect of post ND weight maintenance. I say this too as someone who uses diet as my preferred method of treatment.

 

[brettsza]

Hi everyone

Well I just saw the thread on monday and wanted to put an update but I could not type it all.
So I had one a1c done in june and I was 40 on that I think if i am not wrong.
I kept doing low carb and 16:8 IF, I think that has really helped me a lot.
If I see from may(which is when my ND finished) till now, I gained about 4 kilos as soon as I stopped ND, but I have kept my weight maintained very well with a variation of 1 kilo up or down, which can easily be down to water retention. For me IF has worked wonders and I combine it with HIT.
In last 3 months I shifted to moderate carb, about 100g per day and not a lot of exercise, then during Christmas I went for holidays to India and there for a month and all hell broke loose, I just could not have anything or get anything low carb, so I ate normal food, I started having carbs 3 times a day and had icecreams every night, I was quite concerned about my a1c so I went for a test and I came back at 39. I know it is high but I literally lost myself to carbs there, I gained about 2 kilos there and then came back to UK.
I have still not managed to start HIT but I have started walking about 2 to 3 miles a day as I was not walking at all so slowly building up, I had to eat what I could get but now i am back on low carb and low fat for now to get rid of some weight.
While I was in India I did not see my bloods going above 6.8, I did have a period of about 3 months where I had let myself loose for various reasons, but my a1c behaved, but that does not mean I am going back to the old ways of eating, I have got back on the low carb diet.
Fasting is between 4.5 to 5.3
2 hours after meal is below 6 if low carb and below 7 if high carb.
@Steve50 since you are looking to go back on nd for a couple of weeks, I saw an advert few days ago of slimfast with reduced sugar, you could give that a go. Please check if the nutritional info is the same as i am not aware of it.
What @Pipp said is spot on, we cant go back to old ways of eating, this is what we did in the first place and got here.

 

[Roytaylorjasonfunglover]

Hi everyone

Well I just saw the thread on monday and wanted to put an update but I could not type it all.
So I had one a1c done in june and I was 40 on that I think if i am not wrong.
I kept doing low carb and 16:8 IF, I think that has really helped me a lot.
If I see from may(which is when my ND finished) till now, I gained about 4 kilos as soon as I stopped ND, but I have kept my weight maintained very well with a variation of 1 kilo up or down, which can easily be down to water retention. For me IF has worked wonders and I combine it with HIT.
In last 3 months I shifted to moderate carb, about 100g per day and not a lot of exercise, then during Christmas I went for holidays to India and there for a month and all hell broke loose, I just could not have anything or get anything low carb, so I ate normal food, I started having carbs 3 times a day and had icecreams every night, I was quite concerned about my a1c so I went for a test and I came back at 39. I know it is high but I literally lost myself to carbs there, I gained about 2 kilos there and then came back to UK.
I have still not managed to start HIT but I have started walking about 2 to 3 miles a day as I was not walking at all so slowly building up, I had to eat what I could get but now i am back on low carb and low fat for now to get rid of some weight.
While I was in India I did not see my bloods going above 6.8, I did have a period of about 3 months where I had let myself loose for various reasons, but my a1c behaved, but that does not mean I am going back to the old ways of eating, I have got back on the low carb diet.
Fasting is between 4.5 to 5.3
2 hours after meal is below 6 if low carb and below 7 if high carb.
@Steve50 since you are looking to go back on nd for a couple of weeks, I saw an advert few days ago of slimfast with reduced sugar, you could give that a go. Please check if the nutritional info is the same as i am not aware of it.
What @Pipp said is spot on, we cant go back to old ways of eating, this is what we did in the first place and got here.

Those are impressive numbers none the less, especially below 7 after two hours, even if highcarb. Good luck in the future!

 

[RobOwen]

Hi Guys

I'm post Newcastle Diet - but maintaining a low bmi is a struggle. I'm going back on the diet for a couple of weeks to see how this goes. Has anyone tried this recently? I mean dipping the toe back in for just a week or so - for weight maintenance?

I revisited ND in October and shed another half stone. However, I overindulged in November & December (60th birthday & Christmas get-togethers) and put it back on plus a bit more by New Year. Recently I have tried 16:8 and am very gently losing the odd pound here & there, but nothing remarkable. I do have some meal replacement stock left over, so I could do a week or two stint to drop some extra...tied up with a house sale & move at the moment, so a bit pre-occupied though.

On another note, I had the latest a1c back today and am down to 40 - even with the weight gain, so pleased with that

 

[brettsza]

Keeping weight in check is the most important thing I guess post ND, I have been either lucky or just very strict with myself that I have not had any weight gain, I did gain 2 kilos while on holiday for a month but now that I am bank and doing IF with low carb moderate fat and moderate exercise I have lost 1.5 kilos of the weight I gained, I am not really testing at the moment as since I have come back I have managed to loose my test kit, If i dont find it soon I will have to order a new one.
I forgot to tell I did have OGTT too as I was having high carb food on holiday, I was 5.4 fasting and I was same at 2 hours after having glucose.
I will have my a1c again at 3 months and see how it goes from there. Meanwhile I am trying my best to keep a check on my weight and diet.
I dont know if this helps but I always have a big bowl full of salad before my meal so afternoon and evening, gives a lot of fibre, makes you feel fuller and I keep varying it.
My salad is mostly Lettuce, Tomato, Cucumber, olives, cheese (Mozzarella or cheddar cut into strips), chicken strips, Pepper any or all colours, avocado, sometimes a few jalapeños to spice it up a little. I toss in some pine nuts, cashew nuts or peanuts but not a lot. I mix whatever is available and sometime just lemon, salt and pepper or sometimes I add some yoghurt to make it slightly creamier. Very odd days may be sometimes on weekend I do not have salads and substitute it with a grilled veggies or stir fry to get veggies in. I have also seen if I eat too much protein, I start feeling bloated, so to avoid that, I have to get a lot of veggies in. I work on a tight budget so I look for half price deals across the stores, tesco lidl etc and all and get different veggies. Sometimes I will pick things up from reduced section cook it and either freeze it or eat it same day. There are days you could get chicken strips or cubes in lidl for half price.
I think salad everyday really helps me a lot. Lidl protein rolls are hot favourite on forum, I have that with omlette or make a sandwich with some cheese and ham or beef slices in it and grill it and have it with some red cabbage coleslaw which I again make myself. I try to have as much water as possible to get rid of hunger pangs at about 11 or if its really bad then have coffee with a spoon of milk.
These are some of the things I do to keep my weight in check, hope it helps.