Type 2 and motor insurance

[mutango]

Hello, I am a newbie and this is my first post.

I was diagnosed Type 2 two years ago and treated with diet only. When I was diagnosed I reviewed the information regarding informing the DVLA of my condition, and concluded I was not obliged to.

However I have literally only just become aware that the NHS, and various other respected diabetes authorities, advise that if one has Type 2 diabetes one "MUST" (not "should" or "might find it advisable to") inform one's motor insurer of the condition.

Can anyone tell me what the actual legal basis - if any - for this "requirement" is?

I am a bit militant about discrimination against diabetics (and particularly the mad assumptions that the authorities make about the dangers we allegedly pose when driving) and generally disclose as little as possible about my condition, to as few people as possible. So I do not intend to disclose anything to my motor insurer unless I am legally obliged to. Type 2 (absent complications) should be entirely irrelevant to one's ability to drive.

Anyone able to help? Cheers!

 

[cugila]

As a Diabetic regardless of treatment type and even if diet only you are legally required to notify your Insurers of your condition. What they do about it is entirely up to them, but they should not discriminate against you for being Diabetic. That is not allowed in Law.

If you do not notify them and this comes to light you will find that your Insurance is null and void.
By not informing them you commit an offence of Driving without Insurance. A very serious offence.

If on diet only, or tablets and certain medications (injectable) then you are not required to notify the DVLA. This does not include Insulin where again there is a legal requirement to notify the DVLA.


Hope that helps.

 

[mutango]

Thanks. That's what is written everywhere. But what is the basis for it? What statute or other law says I have to notify the insurers? Anyone know?

 

[mutango]

To be clear - if there was a question on the form saying "do you have diabetes", I would be obliged to answer honestly. HOWEVER absent such question, I would (in almost any other contractual situation) be completely free not to mention my diabetes. There is not, generally, any obligation in law to notify the other party to a contract of any and every piece of information he may feel relevant, or may just like to know. Thus, a specific staute would be required to make it obligatory to inform the insurers of type 2 diabetes - again, absent a specific question on the form. Where is such law to be found?

 

[cugila]

It is a legal requirement to notify your Insurer.

I am an ex Traffic Cop. I have prosecuted people for the offence I pointed out to you. Do not risk a prosecution by not informing your Insurers. It is your responsibility to comply with the Law which has been in force for many years.

 

[mutango]

Can you tell me what the relevant law is?

 

[smidge]

Hiya there! Welcome!

You are not legally obliged to tell the DVLA unless you are on insulin. Up to a little while ago you had to tell them if you were on certain medication that lowers BG, but that has changed. Insurance is a bit different. I don't think there is a legal obligation as such, but your contract with your insurance company will oblige you to inform them (all insurance companies have a question concerning any medical conditions you might have and if you fail to reveal it they are at liberty to void your insurance) - and they might not cover you in the case of an accident if you don't - regardless of whether the accident had anything to do with your diabetes. If that happened you would have broken the law as you'd have been driving without valid insurance. It's not worth the risk.

I felt very much the same as you about this. However, I've very recently started injecting insulin and have had to inform both the DVLA and my insurers of this. The insurance company was brilliant and explained to me that they will note it on my insurance but that it will make no difference at all to my policy or premium or future renewals.

I believe it is actually covered by the Disability Discrimination Act and they would be breaking the law if they treated you unfairly based on your 'disability'. Not sure how you'd prove it though!

Smidge.

 

[CollieBoy]

I was always taught at college (Scots Law/ Contract Law)that insurance contracts were contracts Uberrimae Fidei
definition:
Latin: of the utmost good faith.

A contract in which knowledge of the material fact(s) lies with one party alone; that party is under a duty to make a full disclosure of these facts, and failure to do so makes the contract voidable.

A Latin expression: the utmost of (good) faith

 

[mutango]

thank you!

 

[cugila]

Well done Fergus. Good and correct answer. You must have had your Law Books to hand, mine are tucked away now !

This is where the Civil Law (Contract) and the Road Traffic Law combine. Many have tried to circumvent this by appealing etc, I haven't heard of anybody being successful with an appeal, oarticularly in the circumstances you (OP) have outlined.

As Fergus stated, you have to disclose all 'material facts' so if you withhold the fact that you are a Diabetic it means the Insurer will render the Insurance void. If you do it deliberately then you have broken the Contract. You may also be guilty of Fraud, a Criminal Offence. The circumstances would dictate as to what action would be taken.

With a Policy voided by the Insurers it is then a straightforward offence of Driving with No Insurance.

 

[dorsetlad]

I was surprised to read in this thread that it was mandatory to declare T2 to your motor insurance supplier. So in order to comply, I have just telephoned my broker (RIAS) in order to inform them. The response I got was that as long as the DVLA were happy for me to drive, so were they, and I did not need to notify them of the condition. Now I am totally confused.

Brian

 

[cugila]

Brian.
Make sure you keep a record of who you notified and when etc. For future referernce to show that you DID notify them.

You have complied with what you should do. Really that is all anybody has to do. It is a requirement to notify the Insurers of all 'material facts' ........even if they don't seem to be bothered. Be content that you have done the right thing.

Brokers are not the actual Insurers.......

 

[dorsetlad]

Thanks Cugila. In fact the broker in this instance is the insurer. The insurer Fortis is owned by RIAS the broker.

Brian

 

[cugila]

Oh well.....you can't win 'em all........ :lol:

What should happen and what does happen is one of lifes great mysteries.........

 

[mutango]

Type 2 diabetes is, when writing motor insurance, the very definition of an immaterial fact in that there is no way that type 2 diabetes - in and of itself - can impair your ability to drive. The insurance industry is basically pigsh*t ignorant and doesn't even have the nous to work out that Type 2's CANNOT GET HYPOS.

 

[cugila]

Type 2's can and do get hypos............I am proof of that Many others also have reported Hypos.

Not too sure where you got the information from but it is a possibility, especially if on Meds. In fact anybody, Diabetic or not can suffer from Hypoglycaemia.......it just means low blood sugars.

 

[mutango]

So on what basis is ype 2 diabetes, without complications, a "material" fact in the context of motor insurance? Type 2 diabetes of itself can not impair one's ability to drive, even in the slightest.

 

[daisy1]

I used to get hypos every day long before I developed type 2. It was after a large breakfast of cereal and happened regularly before lunch - while I was out in town. I just had to rush into a shop (somehow I knew what to do as I had a craving for some starchy food) and buy something and quickly eat it. I overcompensated and ate too much before I felt better. Then I had to wait a while before I felt well enough to drive home. I had no idea what it was then. I still don't understand why it happened all the time. Since being diagnosed I have never had one but carry glucose tablets just in case.

 

[cugila]

So on what basis is ype 2 diabetes, without complications, a "material" fact in the context of motor insurance? Type 2 diabetes of itself can not impair one's ability to drive, even in the slightest.

Hypoglycaemia (lowBG) and Hyperglycaemia (High BG) can all have an effect on your ability to drive or operate machinery.........ergo....as a Diabetic of whatever sort, you are at a possible risk.

First of all I do not propose to go into the legal position on this. This is not the place, you should get the advice of an expert in Road Traffic Law and Civil (Contract) Law. Opinions are one thing....the Law however is something else.

You obviously have your own view of the matter. However, there are stated cases where this has been put forward and been thrown out of Court. It IS a 'material fact' regardless of what you may think. Insurers are able to decline or accept your business as they can refuse to insure anybody they wish, their choice.

You are obliged to declare ALL material facts. Some insurers refuse to insure young drivers, Musicians etc......... If you do not inform them. it is solely your own reponsibilty if you are found out.

I would hate you or anybody else reading this to go away from here thinking you are safe from any prosecution. The Law takes a different view, rightly or wrongly.

 

[daisy1]

Off topic but what does LCLF GIGL mean?