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Type 2 considering asking to go on insulin

Discussion in 'Type 2 with Insulin' started by kjc2011, May 15, 2016.

  1. Mrs Vimes

    Mrs Vimes Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    I'm on a pump but like you I eat low carb. Around 20g or less a day. insulin and eating high carb did not work for me and I consider myself to be good with numbers.
    My partner is type 2. He eats like me but on occasion does cheat. His bs have stayed within limits and normal - he uses a free style libre once a month to keep a eye o it.
    I would seriously eat to my meter first. I wouldn't wish insulin on anyone. I'm low carb so I can take as little as possible to avoid the roller coaster.
     
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  2. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
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    You need to update the advice you hand out, based on the large amount of new data available.

    By following the dietary advice you are handing out T2 will degenerate - but there are different, more informed ways of eating can halt or even reverse that decline.
     
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  3. satindoll

    satindoll Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Another case of "there are none so deaf as those that choose not to hear", thankfully we don't have to listen either.
     
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  4. Kristin251

    Kristin251 LADA · Expert

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    Mars,

    Thanks for the dietary advice but I will pass on it. Of course I have had a GAD and it was over 250. I also had a c peptide which showed I produce very little insulin. I have eaten 20 carbs or less per day for over 20 years. I am a great weight, skin glows, blood sugar between 75-100 95% of the times, lots of energy and great CHO as well as other blood work. I'll stick with what I am doing.
    LADA can be brought on by many things that don't include food. I believe mine is genetic and accelerated after a very nasty virus. I assure you I did not eat my way here but I'm sure I would be much worse if I ate loads of carbs for the last 20 years. Eating carbs is moot point for me anyway. I don't digest them.

    I also think you need to update your advice. It is very out dated. I don't think I know a single person who's blood sugars didn't come down with low carb eating. Some just choose to take meds so they can eat what they want. Some choose to eat so they don't have to take meds. Neither is right or wrong however if a person has high blood sugars and eats carbs and bloods continue to rise, diabetes will certainly progress.

    Thanks again for your advice but I too have done my research and I know what I'm doing. My meter agrees.
     
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  5. TorqPenderloin

    TorqPenderloin Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    I guess I better be careful with this low-carb diet. I might lose all my muscle and go into DKA.
     
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  6. kjc2011

    kjc2011 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi @AndBreathe in answer to your question, I have always struggled with my diet, but don't want to go on insulin so that I can eat more carbs. I want to gain better control not have my bloods up and down like a yoyo which they are at the minute, and my original question was asking for people's advice I their opinion would insulin help me be in more control. I do completely understand that even on insulin it will not be that simple and that the will be a lot more hard work involved. For 5 years diabetes has controlled me and each HBA1C has been higher than the last. I want to take control of it and become more stable to limit the complications which are beginning to arise for me. I'm not even sure if insulin will give me the control that I'm looking for just asking for advice and other people's experiences.
     
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  7. Mars1946

    Mars1946 Type 2 · BANNED

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    To all of you who use lowcarb nutrition
    I can see there are many who use lowcarb diet. It is OK for me.
    I write what I know about the consequences of lowcarb . I write not to make indignation by every one who use lowcarb methods. To be safe, I recommends to all of you to ask your doctor about the lowcarb nutrition for diabetes.
    By the way , my knowledge is not from peoples empirical experience, but it is the latest think.
    It is from the medical literature in Biochemistry, Endocrinology, Human Nutrition and many another volumes.
    I´m sorry if I had been the reason for your indignation.
    Latin "Memento Vivere"
     
  8. AndBreathe

    AndBreathe I reversed my Type 2 · Expert
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    May I ask a further question? When you say you've always struggled with your diet, do you mean not enjoying what you eat, struggling to make effective dietary choices or something else?

    My discomfiture is if you go onto insulin, you are at risk of swapping one roller-coaster for another.

    Sadly, we see a number of diabetics, using insulin who remark on the significant swings in blood numbers they experience - correcting for very high numbers, then suffering a hypo as they over-shoot, by mis-timing, miscalculation or their pancreas slinging some of their own insulin into the mix.

    I have no experience of this, either personally, nor clinically, but if your diet isn't so well controlled it could be difficult to get a grasp on things. If you were to use mixed insulins, that requires the diabetic to consume the same number of carbs at roughly the same time each day. If you were to use MDI, you have the flexibility to flex your dose to what you eat, but that depends on diligent carb counting, testing, reviewing and adjusting.

    In your shoes, if I were to have to go through all of those learning curves, I might be inclined to explore giving my diet a real bit of focus to see if I could smooth some of those bumps in the road.

    I could be very wrong, and I do reiterate, I have no experience of this, but I am an avid reader and observer.

    Whatever you decide to do, I hope it turns out well.
     
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  9. Lamont D

    Lamont D Reactive hypoglycemia · Master

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    Hi,
    If I listened to you, I would be dead now!
    I listened to the same advice for over a decade, I was seriously ill, in fact, I was dying!
    I know I have an unusual form of diabetes or blood glucose disorder or metabolic syndrome, no matter the label, the same advice was given, my health deteriorating slowly but surely.
    I have found an endocrinologist who diagnosed me, when others didn't have a clue, nor did any of the other health care professionals, that I had seen.
    It was carbs that were killing me!
    My endocrinologist thought outside the box and ignored his training and recommended very low carb as a way to control the condition.
    I also was directed to this site by my endocrinologist.
    He is highly thought of in the endocrinologist hierarchy for his research into control of blood glucose disorders or whatever label you want to put it in.
    He has a scientific paper published.
    He has two other research papers paid for by the NHS trust and pharmaceutical companies. He is the man that saved my life!

    There is also @Southport GP, who has personally done a study of over 80 T2s and seen great results because of a low carb diet, most of them reversing the condition and taken off meds and saving his practice a lot of money.

    Your thinking is outdated. My body lives on a few carbs which helps feed my brain the glucose needed, my body has healed itself. I do not need to eat carbs as such as you describe. My body doesn't need them. I am a full time manual worker, my energy levels are exceptionally for a pensioner of my age.

    Read the success stories on this forum. That will give you a clue about low carb.

    Back to the OP.
    In my research, I would try and really stay away from insulin, there is so many side issues with it. Only if you really need to, would I try it. I would move heaven and earth to control my blood glucose levels with diet and exercise. With the blood lowering meds your doctor has given you. For me it is the last alternative.

    No matter the label carbs are carbs, and they mostly all spike me and will influence your bloods.
    Take heed of the knowledgeable diabetics on here!
     
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  10. Mars1946

    Mars1946 Type 2 · BANNED

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    To NOSHER 8355
    Hallo Friend

    You have no DIABETES. Your healt problem is out of scope. You can not compare your health problem with diabetes

    Your critic of my discution about lowcarbs problem is irrelevant.
    PLEASE, READ HERE:
    "Reactive hypoglycemia, or postprandial hypoglycemia, is a medical term describing recurrent episodes of symptomatic hypoglycemia occurring within 4 hours[1] after a high carbohydrate meal in people who do not have diabetes.[2] It is thought to represent a consequence of excessive insulin release triggered by the carbohydrate meal but continuing past the digestion and disposal of the glucose derived from the meal."

    You can reach this text in wikipedia English

    Have a nice evening
     
    #30 Mars1946, May 17, 2016 at 9:22 PM
    Last edited by a moderator: May 17, 2016
  11. Mike d

    Mike d Type 2 · Expert

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    The evidence is stacked against you.
     
  12. Cat0409_

    Cat0409_ Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Type 2 on insulin
    Tried low gi fell awful on it and my BS kept climbing
    Unable to take any form of Metformin tho I tried and tried
    The only thing that works for me is low carbing. My daily BS readings have dropped in the last 11 weeks to under 6 morning and night with numbers no higher than 9 after eating.
    I regularly have to reduce my basal insulin units as my readings get lower. I was on 20 units and am now down to 16 and take between 2 and 4 units of bolus for meals.
    Both my specialist and my gp agree with my low carbing and are pleased with the positive downward trend.
    I feel better and have more energy.

    One size does not fit all!
     
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  13. Kristin251

    Kristin251 LADA · Expert

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    Nosher and mike d you are right on. I'm not listening or responding to this nonsense anymore.
    Mars is Clearly not willing to listen.

    I'd be dead too. Great thing I found a new great endo. Actually tells me I can relax a bit but no need.

    Marx, how can you say high BS AFTER eating is not diabetes? It is the definition of diabetes. I'm pretty sure you won't convince any one of us so stop trying to convince us what we found works
     
  14. Indy51

    Indy51 Type 2 · Expert

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  15. Kristin251

    Kristin251 LADA · Expert

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    Always love your posts Indy51. We're on the same page
     
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  16. Mep

    Mep Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    @Mars1946 - are you some kind of doctor? You seem to speak how I hear some of my docs talk. You also seem to be making assumptions about other people's health. This forum is to share experiences and not tell others what to do which it appears you're doing. There are various ways people eat and people will do what works for them. I used to low carb years back but I now don't. I don't need people telling me what to do as I learn from my own experience. If people eat low carb, good for them as it obviously is working for them... not my business to tell them otherwise. I will share my experiences and make suggestions based on that with others and that is about it. This post is about whether or not to use insulin anyhow.

    @kjc2011 - if your hbA1c has been increasing each time and you've had diabetes for 5 years now it may be worth getting those diagnostic tests done again (GAD and c-peptide). There is a possibility you either have type 1.5 or you are type 2 still with insulin deficiency (as I mentioned previously I am). At least if you get these tests done you will know whether or not you have a choice about it. If you still produce sufficient insulin then yes you may choose to go on insulin to help out. I wish you the best. :)
     
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  17. ickihun

    ickihun Type 2 · Master

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    I totally agree. Gliclazide has shown to damage beta cells in the pancreas. It is foretold that if a cure one day people with cells still producing insulin from pancreas holds the key. Protect your beta cells if you can. If that means taking insulin to prevent that then so be it.
    Myself I don't think going on insulin shows degenerative but preventative.
    Of course it is a more expensive treatment but until a true cure I'm happy to take my insulin.
    Recently I reduced my insulin and rode higher bgs (middle of the road) hoping to lose weigh on less insulin. Nope. That never happened, in fact I added weight.
    Hence back on more insulin but losing weight again.
    I too need a GAD and C-peptide test. On my next dn visit I will enquire whether have had one done before putting me on insulin.
    My notes say high levels of insulin resistance.
    Shouldn't a GAD and C-peptide be procedure on starting someone on insulin?
    Afterall too much insulin can kill.
     
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  18. Mep

    Mep Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Yes I personally think it should be standard procedure before considering using insulin. At least that way they know whether or not you have insulin deficiency. I also think they should have it as standard procedure to run the diagnostic tests once you're on oral meds every couple of years at least to check the state of your insulin production.

    The only reason I had the tests done again back in 2010 was because I had been on oral meds for 5 years with all different types of oral meds used and in the end they were not making any difference for me. Of course the reason for that they discovered was because I hardly produce any insulin anyhow.

    Those diabetic meds only work when you produce sufficient insulin. And yes, most of the oral meds themselves stimulate your pancreas to secrete more insulin so your beta cells do wind up damaged. I also have insulin resistance which would've contributed as well. I would say to any type 2 that is noticing that things aren't working to ask for diagnostic tests to be run again. Docs are too quick to insist you must stay on oral meds. I'm glad I insisted as it turned out I had to be on insulin.
     
  19. Engineer88

    Engineer88 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    I think you would be utterly crazy to ask to take insulin with those numbers. It makes you feel awful, causes lots of stress, and can effectively cause death if you overdo it.

    @Mars1946 You are talking rubbish.
     
  20. Pinkorchid

    Pinkorchid Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Diabetes control is about doing what we feel is right for us We can read links and studies on the pros and cons of everything until we go cross eyed but at the end of the day all that matters is whatever way we do it that it works for us personally
     
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