Type 2 Diabetic - new to forum

[pleinster]

I'm slightly confused. I am not sure eating high fat is good, I went to see my dietitian today and asked her about the approach and she said it was nothing but a fad diet.

OMG! Is she a fad doctor..or a real one (with real qualifications and recently updated professional development training)? I am on a low carb diet and it is the ONLY thing keeping my blood sugars down...and I have managed to stay off meds ONLY because of it..and my readings were exactly like yours prior to that. Not only is that all the evidence I need (and I can check it any time I like with my meter -WHICH YOU MUST GET!), but my doctors (who are renal and diabetes specialists - all concerned that my recent transplant...prior to my diabetes...doesn't reject) all acknowledge that a LCHF diet is THE way forward fro Type 2 diabetics. Frankly..your doctor is dinosaur..and you HAVE TO stop eating all these foods which raise your blood sugar and will eventually cause complications. All it would take for you realise this is a couple of days with a meter seeing exactly what foods do what to your system. I don't want to be all harsh, jaggy and cynical (but I am so it comes out that way) - your doctor doesn't need to get real as it's not her body..but it is yours...so get informed, get moving and get real.

 

[Neohdiver]

I'm slightly confused. I am not sure eating high fat is good, I went to see my dietitian today and asked her about the approach and she said it was nothing but a fad diet.

My stats are in my signature line, so you can see how much my BG and lipid panels have suffered during the last (nearly) 6 months of eating an average of 70 grams of fat a day (roughly 70% of my calories).

FWIW, my doctor completely supports my low carb/moderate protein diet (which also requires relatively high fat consumption since both carbs and protein are capped) - and believes the ADA (the main US arbiter of diabetes protocol) is out of date.

 

[pleinster]

Just to add..I am not actually, strictly speaking, on an LCHF diet...as while my carb intake is often less than 30g a day (and I only eat products with less than 10g carb per 100g), I don't really eat much "fat". I eat the better kinds of fat (ie. mono- and polyunsaturates) found in avocados, olives, oily fish, nuts, sprouts, spinach, kale etc. I eat steak, high % meat sausages, chicken, tuna, bacon, fish, root veggies etc. My doctors are content that my diet had enough carbs, protein, fats and fibres in it (and I average 1500 calories a day). I do not gain weight - I never did. I also make sure I drink 2-3 litres of fluid a day. FAT need not mean "FAT"!

 

[Marvel_champ]

@Marvel_champ Are you saying that you are injecting insulin but don't test yourself? I find this very worrying.

I test, but I only have 25 strips a week.

How do you know your sugars are low, do you test with a meter?
If you are waking up hungry, it's likely you are eating too much of the wrong food, carbohydrate. It has the effect of filling you quickly but making you starving hungry a few hours later! Cereal is high carb and won't be helping. If you haven't got a meter, you really need to get one. Type 2's on diet alone or Metformin don't usually have low blood sugar episodes, hypo's, that necessitate extra food. Can you give us some idea of what you eat daily?

I test with the remainder test strips that I have left if I wake up in the night and if I run out, then it's an educated guess. What I eat daily is special k granola, weetabix with pieces of fruit or poached egg on toast when I first wake up. I don't have lunch as I'm normally out all day going to job agencies throughout the week and go to a poundbakery to get either a sausage roll or pie or get a £1 baguette from a sandwich shop. For my evening meal it's a mix of quick food on weekdays like hot dogs, beans or cheese on toast, bacon sandwiches. At the weekend it's like a whole different world with having steak, lamb, chicken or pork out of the freezer and cooking from scratch.

I hardly ever cook as more often than not I burn food and set of the fire alarms.

 

[phoenix]

"Novorapid injections of 20 units at breakfast, 16 at lunch and tea and Levemir injections of 24 units in morning and 20 at night."

This NHS document from one Cambridgeshire http://www.cambridgeshireandpeterbo...eaflet_for_TYPE_II_Dec_07_patient_leaflet.pdf suggests that people with T2 on several injections a day should test before meals and at bedtime either daily or the same pattern, 3-4 times a week if well controlled. This is I would have thought a minimum.
From what you say your diabetes is not yet well controlled (see below about HbA1c) so you should be testing 4x a day requiring a minimum of 28 strips a week for that plus some extra to test if you feel hypo. It would be good at first to be able to test during the night to see what happens then. If you ever drive, then you would need more.

Just testing without using results though is pointless. You need to test but also record your results, also what you ate and whether you did any exercise. It's only when you can see what's happening by looking for patterns that you can begin to adjust your diet/injections. (you could put your findings down in a post on the T2 with insulin section and people may be able to help you)

Hypos, levels lower than 4mmol/l are not normally best treated with a bowl of cereal. The standard treatment is 15g of fast acting glucose. Glucose tablets are cheap, they don't taste very nice so are a good option as most people aren't tempted to eat too many (I don't find I need as much as 15g, most times I just take 1-2 tablets but we are all individual)
If it's a long time to your next meal you may need to follow that with 15g of longer acting carb; an apple would have about that, a piece of fruit is in fact what my dietitian suggests but you could have half a small sandwich made with seeded bread or a very small portion of low gi cereal (all bran for example)

But, if your basal insulin (Levemir) is correctly adjusted then it should be very rare for you to go low overnight.

You don't make it clear bit do you inject when you don't eat lunch or are you actually eating lunch? Injecting a bolus insulin (novorapid) without eating is liable to send you hypo if you were at a normal level before.(one sausage roll from Greggs is 350 calories by itself so could be construed as lunch for some of us though! )

I also noticed you say that your HbA1c was 22.3mmol/l. HbA1cs in the UK are now normally recorded as mmol/mol. A normal level would be about 31-40mmol/mol (22 would be below normal and if you had one that low I doubt as a T2 you would be on insulin, 15 is so low as to be practically impossible , you would be permanently hypo )
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/what-is-hba1c.html
If I were you, I would ask my GP what my last HbA1c actually was. (don't muddle it with fasting glucose which would be in mmol/l, as is the reading on your meter,)

 

[ladybird64]

I think some clarification would be useful for everyone somehow. @Marvel_champ , can I ask how old you are?

 

[pleinster]

I test, but I only have 25 strips a week.



I test with the remainder test strips that I have left if I wake up in the night and if I run out, then it's an educated guess. What I eat daily is special k granola, weetabix with pieces of fruit or poached egg on toast when I first wake up. I don't have lunch as I'm normally out all day going to job agencies throughout the week and go to a poundbakery to get either a sausage roll or pie or get a £1 baguette from a sandwich shop. For my evening meal it's a mix of quick food on weekdays like hot dogs, beans or cheese on toast, bacon sandwiches. At the weekend it's like a whole different world with having steak, lamb, chicken or pork out of the freezer and cooking from scratch.

I hardly ever cook as more often than not I burn food and set of the fire alarms.

Hey champ...here I go again..please don't take my "advice" as cheeky stuff...only trying to point out some stuff in case you are unaware - if the average Type 2 eats Special K or weetabix, blood sugar will absolutely increase (mine would spike dramatically) - only certain fruits are advisable due to sugar content...the egg is good but the toast is a no-no for sure...and anything where the word "bakery" is involved would ring alarm bells - pies? baguettes??? I mean maybe I'm wrong and you are somehow not getting spikes from these things, but if ate these foods on a regular basis I wouldn't just be worried about sugar levels..but about the complications which would come later. look - there are plenty of other opinions (I just happen to think they are wrong based on hard evidence). I would urge you to rethink. I'm not saying make it unbearable and unsustainable, but avoid regular high cabrs...please.

 

[Mike d]

I test, but I only have 25 strips a week.



I test with the remainder test strips that I have left if I wake up in the night and if I run out, then it's an educated guess. What I eat daily is special k granola, weetabix with pieces of fruit or poached egg on toast when I first wake up. I don't have lunch as I'm normally out all day going to job agencies throughout the week and go to a poundbakery to get either a sausage roll or pie or get a £1 baguette from a sandwich shop. For my evening meal it's a mix of quick food on weekdays like hot dogs, beans or cheese on toast, bacon sandwiches. At the weekend it's like a whole different world with having steak, lamb, chicken or pork out of the freezer and cooking from scratch.

I hardly ever cook as more often than not I burn food and set of the fire alarms.

Your diet is (to put it bluntly) just garbage. You have been given the "God's honest" by @pleinster and it WILL catch up with you.

Time to change it now and get control (and the binge eating we can forget JUST for the moment), otherwise a life of address issues for which you'll be cursing yourself. If it has worked for others who've woken up, then I'm happy ... and most do thanks to some great support, not simply from me. You're riding on a dangerous train. Next stop is your choice. The "fad diet" comment from your dietician can be lumped in with the advice from the fool I had. She was sacked by the GP one week later.

 

[Marvel_champ]

I think some clarification would be useful for everyone somehow. @Marvel_champ , can I ask how old you are?

I am 24, 25 in a few months.

"Novorapid injections of 20 units at breakfast, 16 at lunch and tea and Levemir injections of 24 units in morning and 20 at night."

This NHS document from one Cambridgeshire http://www.cambridgeshireandpeterbo...eaflet_for_TYPE_II_Dec_07_patient_leaflet.pdf suggests that people with T2 on several injections a day should test before meals and at bedtime either daily or the same pattern, 3-4 times a week if well controlled. This is I would have thought a minimum.
From what you say your diabetes is not yet well controlled (see below about HbA1c) so you should be testing 4x a day requiring a minimum of 28 strips a week for that plus some extra to test if you feel hypo. It would be good at first to be able to test during the night to see what happens then. If you ever drive, then you would need more.

Just testing without using results though is pointless. You need to test but also record your results, also what you ate and whether you did any exercise. It's only when you can see what's happening by looking for patterns that you can begin to adjust your diet/injections. (you could put your findings down in a post on the T2 with insulin section and people may be able to help you)

Hypos, levels lower than 4mmol/l are not normally best treated with a bowl of cereal. The standard treatment is 15g of fast acting glucose. Glucose tablets are cheap, they don't taste very nice so are a good option as most people aren't tempted to eat too many (I don't find I need as much as 15g, most times I just take 1-2 tablets but we are all individual)
If it's a long time to your next meal you may need to follow that with 15g of longer acting carb; an apple would have about that, a piece of fruit is in fact what my dietitian suggests but you could have half a small sandwich made with seeded bread or a very small portion of low gi cereal (all bran for example)

But, if your basal insulin (Levemir) is correctly adjusted then it should be very rare for you to go low overnight.

You don't make it clear bit do you inject when you don't eat lunch or are you actually eating lunch? Injecting a bolus insulin (novorapid) without eating is liable to send you hypo if you were at a normal level before.(one sausage roll from Greggs is 350 calories by itself so could be construed as lunch for some of us though! )

I also noticed you say that your HbA1c was 22.3mmol/l. HbA1cs in the UK are now normally recorded as mmol/mol. A normal level would be about 31-40mmol/mol (22 would be below normal and if you had one that low I doubt as a T2 you would be on insulin, 15 is so low as to be practically impossible , you would be permanently hypo )
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/what-is-hba1c.html
If I were you, I would ask my GP what my last HbA1c actually was. (don't muddle it with fasting glucose which would be in mmol/l, as is the reading on your meter,)

I never thought about recording my blood sugar levels. I just keep them on my meter.

OMG! Is she a fad doctor..or a real one (with real qualifications and recently updated professional development training)? I am on a low carb diet and it is the ONLY thing keeping my blood sugars down...and I have managed to stay off meds ONLY because of it..and my readings were exactly like yours prior to that. Not only is that all the evidence I need (and I can check it any time I like with my meter -WHICH YOU MUST GET!), but my doctors (who are renal and diabetes specialists - all concerned that my recent transplant...prior to my diabetes...doesn't reject) all acknowledge that a LCHF diet is THE way forward fro Type 2 diabetics. Frankly..your doctor is dinosaur..and you HAVE TO stop eating all these foods which raise your blood sugar and will eventually cause complications. All it would take for you realise this is a couple of days with a meter seeing exactly what foods do what to your system. I don't want to be all harsh, jaggy and cynical (but I am so it comes out that way) - your doctor doesn't need to get real as it's not her body..but it is yours...so get informed, get moving and get real.

My doctor looks like a dinosaur and is just one of the worst.

Your diet is (to put it bluntly) just garbage. You have been given the "God's honest" by @pleinster and it WILL catch up with you.

Time to change it now and get control (and the binge eating we can forget JUST for the moment), otherwise a life of address issues for which you'll be cursing yourself. If it has worked for others who've woken up, then I'm happy ... and most do thanks to some great support, not simply from me. You're riding on a dangerous train. Next stop is your choice. The "fad diet" comment from your dietician can be lumped in with the advice from the fool I had. She was sacked by the GP one week later.

I know that my diet is not good and my family aren't that supportive as they all think that carbs are healthy, including my grandparents who are both diabetics.

 

[Mike d]

I never thought about recording my blood sugar levels. I just keep them on my meter.

S/sheet them and chart the results

 

[pleinster]

Yup - record the readings. Personally, it was ONLY by recording what I ate, when I ate it and what readings were before and 2.5 hours after, that I got to see the patterns and the impact of certain foods as well as the obvious progress I was making on low carb eating. It also provided me with evidence to show my doctors..and as a result of that, they are far more convinced I know what I am doing and are delighted I am in control as much as is possible and that I don't require the meds I was on. Its not maybe as simple to decide on the best way to record..I finally arrived at a word document with a table set up to record (in columns) food (on the left) time (in the centre) reading (on the right) meds taken (far right) as there were often times I would record reading where I hadn't eaten and that info was relevant too. I added comments at the bottom of each week, setting targets etc, and it meant I could see patterns at a glance. I was testing 8 times a day to establish things. I am now testing 3-4 times a day and no need to record anything. I also decided to detail what I was eating in an average day in terms of carbs, fats, fibres, proteins, calories....to ensure with my doctors it was adequate and appropriate. A bit of time recording labels per 100g and then working out how many grams of a typical breakfast, lunch, dinner etc not only helped arm me with details,; it taught me more about food and nutrition in general. As a result of all the changes and records...I now know way more about what I eat and am generally healthier than I was before diabetes! Test and record...test and record...until you're sure of what's what.

 

[ladybird64]

I am 24, 25 in a few months.



I never thought about recording my blood sugar levels. I just keep them on my meter.



My doctor looks like a dinosaur and is just one of the worst.



I know that my diet is not good and my family aren't that supportive as they all think that carbs are healthy, including my grandparents who are both diabetics.[/QUO

Champ, you're an adult my friend so although your parents may not agree, it's up to you to make the decisions about what YOU eat, especially as you're on insulin and not recording your levels. I get that you only ate a tiny part of what you were going to eat at the cinema - but why did you put all the Choc in the basket? Loads of advice available here but it's really important that you take it on board. You're a young guy and you don't want to be hit by disability I'm sure - you can make the changes that will help avoid it.

 

[Marvel_champ]

Champ, you're an adult my friend so although your parents may not agree, it's up to you to make the decisions about what YOU eat, especially as you're on insulin and not recording your levels. I get that you only ate a tiny part of what you were going to eat at the cinema - but why did you put all the Choc in the basket? Loads of advice available here but it's really important that you take it on board. You're a young guy and you don't want to be hit by disability I'm sure - you can make the changes that will help avoid it.

I am already hit by a disability in the form of a speech impediment and what I took to the cinema is what I normally take except for the diet coke as I normally buy normal coke and adjusting to the taste of diet coke is struggling for me. I cook for myself when my parents are out and don't get back in late at night.

Today I've been to see my doctor and now I'm on the look out for another gp as he was just not convinced about lc hf and told me to stay away from these so called diabetic forums as to him they are feeding false info.

 

[Patricia21]

Welcome from me.

 

[JenniferW]

What I like about the forum is that whatever I feel like about my diabetes, I can come come here and say it. People pat you on the back when you achieve something positive and when you're down about it all (sometimes for good reason), they tell you not to beat yourself up - and sometimes to pull your finger out - and there's loads of good advice and sharing of relevant information. You couldn't ask for more. I hope it works as well for you as it does for me.

 

[JenniferW]

What I like about the forum is that whatever I feel like about my diabetes, I can come come here and say it. People pat you on the back when you achieve something positive and when you're down about it all (sometimes for good reason), they tell you not to beat yourself up - and sometimes to pull your finger out - and there's loads of good advice and sharing of relevant information. You couldn't ask for more. I hope it works as well for you as it does for me.

 

[ladybird64]

I am already hit by a disability in the form of a speech impediment and what I took to the cinema is what I normally take except for the diet coke as I normally buy normal coke and adjusting to the taste of diet coke is struggling for me. I cook for myself when my parents are out and don't get back in late at night.

Today I've been to see my doctor and now I'm on the look out for another gp as he was just not convinced about lc hf and told me to stay away from these so called diabetic forums as to him they are feeding false info.

Yep, but disability doesn't impact on you munching choc! Just saying it like it is Champ, you can't eat this stuff if you are trying to control your diabetes, you will need to change what you normally eat.
I would definitely change GP, if he is not even giving you enough test strips while you're on insulin, he sounds like a fool.
LCHF will probably not be popular with NHS professionals because it conflicts with current thinking. However, it's up to you what you cook and eat, not your doc. Would be nice if you could get them on board though.

 

[RoseofSharon]

I'm slightly confused. I am not sure eating high fat is good, I went to see my dietitian today and asked her about the approach and she said it was nothing but a fad diet.

Hi welcome to the forum.


Binge eating. I can sympathise as I used to comfort eat. Emotional problems I used to deal with the only way I knew how and that eating (I had a lot of issues in my past), and the temptation to still stuff my face is at times strong, however nowadays I seek put the cheese aisle or nuts etc. A lot is about choices that we make - yes I know easier said than done when those emotions are surfacing and the brain is screaming for the sugary foods to stuff those emotions away again.

So how did I change my food choices (and kick the emotional eating generally?!) I researched. In 1998/9 I trained in the then gov't dietary advice as part of my holistic therapy training. However I didn't stop then and found a similar diet to Atkins in the early 2000's and have researched further since then. The research I have done has led me down the path that I spent 1 1/2 years eating paleo. It was this time that reeducate do my taste buds. If I was going to say a diet that is evidence based I would seriously put my money behind LCHF and NOT he current NHS advice.

 

[RoseofSharon]

I never thought about recording my blood sugar levels. I just keep them on my meter.

I know that my diet is not good and my family aren't that supportive as they all think that carbs are healthy, including my grandparents who are both diabetics.

I recently transposed some figures where I hadn't done more than recording them on the meter. Going back they are almost useless as I didn't know whether they were fasting before meals or after meals (not helped by the fact that many of them were during my last placement in the hospital) please for your own benefits record your figures as you've been advised.

As for your diet quite frankly you need to make your own choices, your health literally depends on it! Dietary advice and knowledge of diabetes has changed so much over the years (and the carbs are healthy message drum has been banged for so many years) that our parents and grand parents often can't get their heads around it.

 

[Marvel_champ]

I still don't understand why bread, potato, pasta and anything with grains are off limits. I come from a family (1/4 italian) where these foods are considered as everyday food.

I'm sorry guys but I don't think I have what it takes to low carb and eat high fat. I've just binged on a lot of junk foods after being repeatedly told that I have been unsuccessful in getting 12 interviews for jobs and I'm not feeling too good about it all.