Type 2, low carb and endurance exercise

[andyslowrider]

Hi,

As a recently diagnosed Type 2 I'm following the low carb high fat approach to my diabetes management. I'm currently restricted to light exercise (on doctor's orders for heart issues) but am hoping to be given the all clear to start proper exercise again soon.

I've always been a keen cyclist and before my diagnosis would do anything from 30 minute high intensity rides to 4+ hours at moderate intensity (cycling holidays in Mallorca riding 60 to 90 miles through the mountains), all fuelled by carbs - lots of porridge, rice, pasta, energy (sugar) gels and bars etc.

What are your thoughts on eating for endurance exercise? How well does it work with low carb? Do you increase your carb intake for longer exercise durations? What do you recommend eating the night and morning before a hard 3 to 5 hour exercise session, and during it?

Sorry this is a bit of niche question but if there are any fellow type 2 cyclists, marathon runners or other endurance athletes out there I'd be very grateful for your thoughts and experiences.

Thanks

Andy

 

[LaoDan]

Interesting, are you at a normal weight? I had always thought fat was the best energy source for endurance as the fuel tank is larger. I could be wrong, but it seems carb loading might not be the best idea for us.

Low carb seems to make HIIT less explosive, I’ve found I do better if I get a proper warmup and get my liver to dump beforehand. Though I’m still a newbie, still exploring

 

[Andy_Warlow]

Interesting, are you at a normal weight? I had always thought fat was the best energy source for endurance as the fuel tank is larger. I could be wrong, but it seems carb loading might not be the best idea for us.

Low carb seems to make HIIT less explosive, I’ve found I do better if I get a proper warmup and get my liver to dump beforehand. Though I’m still a newbie, still exploring

As Lao Dan said Fat is great source of Energy for exercise.

Make sure you get protein after your work out. Increase repair to your body and that helps build lead muscle. The more lean muscle you have, the more glucose you use up. So it is a win win.

I find if I train fasted, I run better and longer. But that might just be me.

 

[DCUKMod]

Hi,

As a recently diagnosed Type 2 I'm following the low carb high fat approach to my diabetes management. I'm currently restricted to light exercise (on doctor's orders for heart issues) but am hoping to be given the all clear to start proper exercise again soon.

I've always been a keen cyclist and before my diagnosis would do anything from 30 minute high intensity rides to 4+ hours at moderate intensity (cycling holidays in Mallorca riding 60 to 90 miles through the mountains), all fuelled by carbs - lots of porridge, rice, pasta, energy (sugar) gels and bars etc.

What are your thoughts on eating for endurance exercise? How well does it work with low carb? Do you increase your carb intake for longer exercise durations? What do you recommend eating the night and morning before a hard 3 to 5 hour exercise session, and during it?

Sorry this is a bit of niche question but if there are any fellow type 2 cyclists, marathon runners or other endurance athletes out there I'd be very grateful for your thoughts and experiences.

Thanks

Andy

Andy - First and foremost, it is important your doctors sign you off as fit to exercise before you consider anything.

If you have recently had a cardiac event, or a new or changed condition has led to this non-exercising situation, you may find you qualify for some form of cardiac rehab.

I understand from discussions in our local research centre that whilst the uptake for cardiac rehab can be disappointingly low in some areas, those who take the opportunity often have better longer term outcomes in managing their exercise and exercising over the longer term.

Whilst there may have been little happening in that area in recent times, the NHS is coming our of mothballs for many of it's planned and routine events.

As others have found, as a person enjoying a low carb lifestyle, I find that I have more issues around the timing of fuel for sustained exercise, rather than being able to fuel per se.

I find I need to fuel up longer before start the exercise, in order to let digestion get well underway. Carbs tend to be fast acting fuel, whilst proteins and particularly fats are more a slow burn, in my experience. For endurance exercise, I find the longer lasting fuel to be better for how I both cope with it, and recover afterwards.

 

[Bittern]

Whilst I appreciate that walking is not quite the same as cycling my experience of a 45 day mountain walk with T2 may be of interest. I decided to take a long walk well after diagnosis as T2 and 6 months after a stroke as part of my rehabilitation at the age of 66. The walk was continuous about 25kM per day, some times more sometimes less and consisted of mountains, plains and a little road walking. I carried a pack with all my bodily needs which weighed 6kG, food was bought along the way at cafes when available and at village shops. My diet was primarily LCHF but after about 14 days I had to drop some medication as I started suffering regular hypos and decided at that point to also add in a modicum of carbohydrate. I always carried dried fruit and a combination of cheese, salami, tuna, peppers together with glucose tablets and an emergency sweet muesli bar. Never had a problem whilst walking and only had hypos at night. I tested regularly and if I felt "freaky", stayed as hydrated as possible, not always at optimum.

My advice is that when your doctor says your heart is OK start slowly in terms of speed and distance, probably building distance as opposed to speed, test and you will work out what your body needs.

I am currently planning a cycling trip to France along the canals and rivers and expect to start in Calais on to Burgundy, down the Rhone and back via the Landes and Charante to Calais.

 

[TeddyTottie]

Hi,

As a recently diagnosed Type 2 I'm following the low carb high fat approach to my diabetes management. I'm currently restricted to light exercise (on doctor's orders for heart issues) but am hoping to be given the all clear to start proper exercise again soon.

I've always been a keen cyclist and before my diagnosis would do anything from 30 minute high intensity rides to 4+ hours at moderate intensity (cycling holidays in Mallorca riding 60 to 90 miles through the mountains), all fuelled by carbs - lots of porridge, rice, pasta, energy (sugar) gels and bars etc.

What are your thoughts on eating for endurance exercise? How well does it work with low carb? Do you increase your carb intake for longer exercise durations? What do you recommend eating the night and morning before a hard 3 to 5 hour exercise session, and during it?

Sorry this is a bit of niche question but if there are any fellow type 2 cyclists, marathon runners or other endurance athletes out there I'd be very grateful for your thoughts and experiences.

Thanks

Andy

Hi Andy, one of the members here (I’m sorry, I can’t remember who but thank you!) recommended that I read ‘The art and science of low carbohydrate performance’ by Jeff Volek and Stephen Phinney. It is really very helpful in explaining how the body in ketosis works and giving you the confidence to carry on without carbs, if that is what you want.

 

[andyslowrider]

Thanks all for your replies.

I understand the importance of getting my doctor's approval to resume proper exercise, so won't be rushing into anything. I should perhaps also add that I don't take any medication for my T2.

LaoDan - I am slightly overweight (82kg, 5'10, BMI 26), but not too far off 'normal'. I'm trying to lose a bit of weight, primarily in the hope that it helps with the type 2, rather than for any other reason. I've always known/thought that fat is a good source of fuel for endurance exercise, but had always thought that this only applied at low intensities and that carbs were needed for higher intensity endurance activity. Most of nutritional 'knowledge', at least as it relates to exercise, stems from when I was a competative cyclist 25 years ago, so I fully accept that what I 'knew' then may not be correct now.

Thanks for the book recommendation TeddyTottie. I always enjoy a good read, so will see if I can find an electronic copy to download later today.

DCUKMod - thanks for your reply. Could you give me an example of a meal you'd eat before endurance exercise, and also what, if anything you'd eat during exercise?

Bittern - congratulations on your achievement. A 45 day walk would have been too daunting for me even at my peak fitness in my early 20's, let alone as a rehabilitaion exercise after a stroke! I do like the sound of your cycling trip around France, although I suspect that I'd be unable to enjoy it properly - I lost the ability to enjoy cycling for the sake of cycling when I started winning bike races. Since then it's either been the winning I enjoy (now a distant memory) or the pain of a hard training session and the satisfaction of completing it. Neither are conducive to enjoying the scenery! Thanks for sharing your experience and your diet tips.

Andy

 

[Dark Horse]

I've not watched this but Tim Noakes talks about lowcarb for elite athletes:-

 

[DCUKMod]

Thanks all for your replies.

I understand the importance of getting my doctor's approval to resume proper exercise, so won't be rushing into anything. I should perhaps also add that I don't take any medication for my T2.

LaoDan - I am slightly overweight (82kg, 5'10, BMI 26), but not too far off 'normal'. I'm trying to lose a bit of weight, primarily in the hope that it helps with the type 2, rather than for any other reason. I've always known/thought that fat is a good source of fuel for endurance exercise, but had always thought that this only applied at low intensities and that carbs were needed for higher intensity endurance activity. Most of nutritional 'knowledge', at least as it relates to exercise, stems from when I was a competative cyclist 25 years ago, so I fully accept that what I 'knew' then may not be correct now.

Thanks for the book recommendation TeddyTottie. I always enjoy a good read, so will see if I can find an electronic copy to download later today.

DCUKMod - thanks for your reply. Could you give me an example of a meal you'd eat before endurance exercise, and also what, if anything you'd eat during exercise?

Bittern - congratulations on your achievement. A 45 day walk would have been too daunting for me even at my peak fitness in my early 20's, let alone as a rehabilitaion exercise after a stroke! I do like the sound of your cycling trip around France, although I suspect that I'd be unable to enjoy it properly - I lost the ability to enjoy cycling for the sake of cycling when I started winning bike races. Since then it's either been the winning I enjoy (now a distant memory) or the pain of a hard training session and the satisfaction of completing it. Neither are conducive to enjoying the scenery! Thanks for sharing your experience and your diet tips.

Andy

Andy, to be honest, I'd fuel as I usually might, but likely just have a bit more.

If I knew I would be pushing the envelope in the morning, I'd ensure I had my breakfast quite early, to give my food and hour or longer to get going.

Most mornings I have full fat, home made yoghurt, with rhubarb or a home made fruit compote - berries usually. No sugar or sweeteners added. If I knew it was going to be heavy effort, I'd ad some double cream.

Bacon and eggs, or scrambled eggs, or an omelette could work well, and again, if I thought I'd need it, then I'd add cream, cheese or sour cream to the scramble or omelette.

Really, it's a bit of trial and error, and it strikes me, if you have had an enforced lay-off, what you will term endurance near the outset will be nothing like the endurance of past times. You will doubtless need to build up to that.

If/when you give it a go, should you hit the energy wall, I'd urge you just to have something to eat (for me that's likely be cooked bacon, a piece of cheese or the like), and back off the intensity quite a bit until it gets going. It will also be incredibly important to pay good heed to hydration too, else part of the hitting the wall could likely be due to dehydration.

I don't do grains at all. I'm gluten-free, as well as low carb, and I don't make or eat LC biscuits, cookies or cakes.

So, it it do-able, and very well doable, but take it steady. You don't need to go putting your body under undue strain, just because you're not fuelling adequately.

Whilst Ian Lake is T1, this could be an interesting read for you.

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/blog/2018/08/gp-type-1-diabetes-runs-low-carb/

 

[andyslowrider]

Andy, to be honest, I'd fuel as I usually might, but likely just have a bit more.

If I knew I would be pushing the envelope in the morning, I'd ensure I had my breakfast quite early, to give my food and hour or longer to get going.

Most mornings I have full fat, home made yoghurt, with rhubarb or a home made fruit compote - berries usually. No sugar or sweeteners added. If I knew it was going to be heavy effort, I'd ad some double cream.

Bacon and eggs, or scrambled eggs, or an omelette could work well, and again, if I thought I'd need it, then I'd add cream, cheese or sour cream to the scramble or omelette.

Really, it's a bit of trial and error, and it strikes me, if you have had an enforced lay-off, what you will term endurance near the outset will be nothing like the endurance of past times. You will doubtless need to build up to that.

If/when you give it a go, should you hit the energy wall, I'd urge you just to have something to eat (for me that's likely be cooked bacon, a piece of cheese or the like), and back off the intensity quite a bit until it gets going. It will also be incredibly important to pay good heed to hydration too, else part of the hitting the wall could likely be due to dehydration.

I don't do grains at all. I'm gluten-free, as well as low carb, and I don't make or eat LC biscuits, cookies or cakes.

So, it it do-able, and very well doable, but take it steady. You don't need to go putting your body under undue strain, just because you're not fuelling adequately.

Whilst Ian Lake is T1, this could be an interesting read for you.

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/blog/2018/08/gp-type-1-diabetes-runs-low-carb/

Many thanks for your help. As you say, it's going to take a bit of trial and error until I understand what works for me.

 

[DCUKMod]

Many thanks for your help. As you say, it's going to take a bit of trial and error until I understand what works for me.

And, just to add really.

If you intend to fuel this way, consistently, then don't be afraid of calories. For me, calories do count, but they're not all equal.

I am a short, slight woman (160cm, weighing 48-49kg), but tent to get through about 2500 calories a day, when I'm busy. Provided I keep the carbs in check, my weight is very stable, and has been for about 6 years.