Type 2, PCOS, NAFLD

Charlotte_1987 said:

Thanks for this Jo.
Fast day today and it was 9.8 this morning, and through the day went down to happy with that. I take it as a good thing though that my liver is dumping **** out to get rid of it, at least I hope that's how it works. !

On another note, can I ask what you drink?
I have been drinking nothing but water and water with lemon in it or green tea. I must admit though I find myself wanting something else to drink, but no idea what is ok to have really.

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What can you drink...? Tea (black, white, green, chai, rooibos, tisane), coffee/espresso, water (with or without a lemon or some other fruit for infusion's sake). Prefer a bit of cream in tea of coffee over milk, the fatter the better, if you like your tea or coffee other than black. Those are basically the lowest carb things there are, aside from diet drinks. There's a lot of debate about artificial sweeteners in those though, some tolerate them just fine, others don't... For some they spike blood sugars, others get gastro-intestinal issues because sweeteners are toxic to gut bacteria. But if you test and find them okay, and just drink them in moderation, I don't see a problem. Just figure out what fits you. https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/drinks is a guide for non-alcoholic drinks, https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/alcohol covers the ones with alcohol. But with liver issues one might want to avoid alcohol entirely. I know my liver wasn't amused when I tried a little sip of something 5 years ago. (And that really was all it was. One. Sip. OUCH!).

Since I don't tolerate cow dairy well and there's a lot of carbs in a cappuccino I'll only treat myself to one of those at a maximum of one a week, for which I'll pay in a few hours of rheumatic joint pain, and I only allow myself one if it's a day where I walk a lot, so I can mitigate the spike it'll give me afterwards. You decide what you can tolerate, how much something is worth it to you and what you're comfortable with. I know I shouldn't touch cappuccino's, ever. But since my beloved teas have been giving me migraines and kidney stones, it's one of the few things I will allow myself. Because I enjoy it so much it makes my toes curl in joy, and the sore joints are worth it to me. You make up the rules as they suit you, and your meter.

All of those 3 are because of the same culprit, insulin resistance

And on the subject of insulin resistance all your issues could be linked back to it, as can many many other conditions. Resolving insulin resistance is the key to improving so many modern ills. This ditchthecarbs.com website is the first I found on my journey and I still use it along with dietdoctor.com and many others. None of them need subscribing £ unless you want the extras. Plenty on there for free.

(edited by mod)

I thought I'd register as the contents of this thread concern me a bit.

I'm sure people mean well but none of you seem to understand what an ELF test is actually trying to measure, despite it clearly being tagged as such, or just a general understanding as to what the test is.

The following diagram may help you understand this.



This test is trying to determine the severity of liver fibrosis and whether the person likely has cirrhosis. It is not testing to see whether someone has fatty liver, although it certainly helps understand the clinical picture as people with 'non-alcoholic steatohepatitis:NASH' (the most severe form of fatty liver) will have some fibrosis.

I am not a medical professional but I really think someone who scores in the 10s should primarily be getting dietary advice from a doctor and a dietitian from a hospital.

To be clear there is some evidence that fibrosis can be reversed to a degree and there are some promising drugs currently being trialled to treat NASH (such as Obeticholic Acid) which may help with this but I very much doubt fibrosis could be reversed simply by going on a diet.

Don't get me wrong, if you're overweight or obese, getting the fat off your liver is a good idea even if you have fibrosis as if anything it will help slow the progression of this disease.

I had a fatty liver diagnosed some years ago, after a year of low carb for T2 diabetes a new scan showed it had resolved in spite of one of my GPs insisting that my 'high fat' (his words) diet was bad for me.
I hope you will find low carb as successful.

TriciaWs said:

I had a fatty liver diagnosed some years ago, after a year of low carb for T2 diabetes a new scan showed it had resolved in spite of one of my GPs insisting that my 'high fat' (his words) diet was bad for me.
I hope you will find low carb as successful.

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It depends on the patient though, I mean to give one example, a high fat diet rich in saturated fat and/or foods high in cholesterol like eggs and dairy would be a terrible idea for someone who had high cholesterol.

But yes if you're healthy otherwise but have fatty liver and are overweight or obese, it's not like you have to follow a specific to diet to get the fat off it.

Sphagnum said:

It depends on the patient though, I mean to give one example, a high fat diet rich in saturated fat and/or foods high in cholesterol like eggs and dairy would be a terrible idea for someone who had high cholesterol.

But yes if you're healthy otherwise but have fatty liver and are overweight or obese, it's not like you have to follow a specific to diet to get the fat off it.

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My cholesterol has improved a lot since I started low carbing, eating butter, olive oil and lots of eggs. My hdl has gone up, my LDL has gone down.

You may want to have a search on the forum about cholesterol forum.

Do you have medical qualifications?

Sphagnum said:

It depends on the patient though, I mean to give one example, a high fat diet rich in saturated fat and/or foods high in cholesterol like eggs and dairy would be a terrible idea for someone who had high cholesterol.

But yes if you're healthy otherwise but have fatty liver and are overweight or obese, it's not like you have to follow a specific to diet to get the fat off it.

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Another here to dispute the arguments you make about cholesterol. Mine massively improved when changing to a high saturated fat diet but ditching the inflammatory carbs. There’s a lot of much more up to date science than you seem aware of on the subject.

Makes me question what you really know about the liver too. Your last statement is regularly disproved on this forum with people following low carb to reduce and resolve a fatty liver. And someone with a fatty liver and overweight is not healthy. They likely have metabolic issues which may well include high blood pressure, high triglycerides, insulin resistance, prediabetes etc. what do you think they should be doing if not changing their diet?

where is your “knowledge” on these subjects coming from? I’m really hoping you’re are not a hcp.

HSSS said:

Another here to dispute the arguments you make about cholesterol. Mine massively improved when changing to a high saturated fat diet but ditching the inflammatory carbs. There’s a lot of much more up to date science than you seem aware of on the subject.

Makes me question what you really know about the liver too. Your last statement is regularly disproved on this forum with people following low carb to reduce and resolve a fatty liver. And someone with a fatty liver and overweight is not healthy. They likely have metabolic issues which may well include high blood pressure, high triglycerides, insulin resistance, prediabetes etc. what do you think they should be doing if not changing their diet?

where is your “knowledge” on these subjects coming from? I’m really hoping you’re are not a hcp.

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You didn't read my comment properly. I said that you don't need to follow a certain diet to get the fat off your liver, you simply need to lose weight although obviously for your general health you should be following a healthy diet.

As for cholesterol, it's very well established that consuming too much saturated fat raises your blood cholesterol. Having a diet that's also heavily based around dairy and eggs (foods that are high in bad cholesterol) your body has to deal with it somehow and it will try and store a lot of that cholesterol in your arteries. Most doctors would not recommend a diet like that for someone who has high cholesterol. To be honest that advice would go for anyone suffering from heart disease quite franky. This is not rocket science.

And when I said I was concerned earlier I was trying to be diplomatic and polite.

However I should probably speak my mind and make it clear that I think some of you gave frankly harmful advice. The very first thing you should have said is don't do anything without contacting your doctor first.

And telling someone who has fibrosis (potentially cirrhosis) of the liver to start fasting is potentially harmful. Your body needs a steady supply of protein, when you fast your body will begin burning muscle but if you overdo it you can cause damage to your liver and kidneys as your body may start burning some of those cells too.

The last thing someone with fibrosis needs is to lose some of their healthy liver cells.

Sphagnum said:

And when I said I was concerned earlier I was trying to be diplomatic and polite.

However I should probably speak my mind and make it clear that I think some of you gave frankly harmful advice. The very first thing you should have said is don't do anything without contacting your doctor first.

And telling someone who has fibrosis (potentially cirrhosis) of the liver to start fasting is potentially harmful. Your body needs a steady supply of protein, when you fast your body will begin burning muscle but if you overdo it you can cause damage to your liver and kidneys as your body may start burning some of those cells too.

The last thing someone with fibrosis needs is to lose some of their healthy liver cells.

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You still haven't mentioned your medical qualifications.

Sphagnum said:

You didn't read my comment properly. I said that you don't need to follow a certain diet to get the fat off your liver, you simply need to lose weight although obviously for your general health you should be following a healthy diet.

As for cholesterol, it's very well established that consuming too much saturated fat raises your blood cholesterol. Having a diet that's also heavily based around dairy and eggs (foods that are high in bad cholesterol) your body has to deal with it somehow and it will try and store a lot of that cholesterol in your arteries. Most doctors would not recommend a diet like that for someone who has high cholesterol. To be honest that advice would go for anyone suffering from heart disease quite franky. This is not rocket science.

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Oh I did read your comments. And I disagreed.

It is not rocket science but your views are pretty dated and not particularly accurate.

and in your next post you make a fair few assumptions that do not accurately reflect what was said/advised in the first place.

please state your qualifications (and when they were last updated by CPD on the subject) or admit that you have none. We all have opinions but you phrase yours as if qualified.

It was only on Twitter, but there have been comments by some claiming to be senior HCPs dealing with cardiovascular problems, one a surgeon, that over half their patients have below average cholesterol levels, but they could not possibly mention it at a professional level..