Type2 confirmed yesterday

Craigmartin · Apr 23, 2020

Hy guys. After initial mix of emotions I've accepted the fact I'm diabetic 2.
Always been a big guy and over life lost weight and piled it back on umpteen times whilst drinking and eating unhealthily.Lost my father last year and that spurred me into gym and diet kick and lost over 6stone so far. Whilst feeling better for weight loss had few ailments in that year and generally 'down'which my doctor said was likely grief/stress. Long story short culminates in diagnosis 24 hr ago.The stats I remember 121. 16.2 sugar and 0.7 ketones. My blood pressure was good and all other tests ok. Took first Metformin with breakfast and been ok so far. Obviously reading about nutrition and cutting carbs and bad fat and sugar. Due back week tomorrow for checks again so will start to get numbers and Info to see if I progress etc. Any advice gratefully received and if anyone knows roughly what calorie intake I should take aim for then great?
BMI is 47 so not great but a lot better than it was. I've tried a couple of different sites and getting contradictory results.. Cheers

JoKalsbeek · Apr 23, 2020

Craigmartin said:
Hy guys. After initial mix of emotions I've accepted the fact I'm diabetic 2.
Always been a big guy and over life lost weight and piled it back on umpteen times whilst drinking and eating unhealthily.Lost my father last year and that spurred me into gym and diet kick and lost over 6stone so far. Whilst feeling better for weight loss had few ailments in that year and generally 'down'which my doctor said was likely grief/stress. Long story short culminates in diagnosis 24 hr ago.The stats I remember 121. 16.2 sugar and 0.7 ketones. My blood pressure was good and all other tests ok. Took first Metformin with breakfast and been ok so far. Obviously reading about nutrition and cutting carbs and bad fat and sugar. Due back week tomorrow for checks again so will start to get numbers and Info to see if I progress etc. Any advice gratefully received and if anyone knows roughly what calorie intake I should take aim for then great?
BMI is 47 so not great but a lot better than it was. I've tried a couple of different sites and getting contradictory results.. Cheers

You can let go of BMI and calories. The main thing now are the carbs. Cut those, up fats (good ones), and moderate protein... That should get your T2, weight and feeling down, under control. And you'll feel like a new man. Mind you, you've followed a diet before all this, which greatly helps when it comes to discipline. Oh, and you can still have a drink, just not carby ones.

https://josekalsbeek.blogspot.com/2019/11/the-nutritional-thingy.html hopefully will help get you started. If you want to know more. Dr. Jason Fung wrote an excellent book, The Diabetes Code, and there's dietdoctor.com with a massive amount of (mostly free) recepies.

xfieldok · Apr 23, 2020

Yay! Well done you. I was diagnosed with 122.

Don't count calories, count carbs. Get yourself a meter, we can help with that.

If you adopt a low carb or keto way of eating, you will lose weight and you won't put it back on

Craigmartin · Apr 23, 2020

JoKalsbeek said:
You can let go of BMI and calories. The main thing now are the carbs. Cut those, up fats (good ones), and moderate protein... That should get your T2, weight and feeling down, under control. And you'll feel like a new man. Mind you, you've followed a diet before all this, which greatly helps when it comes to discipline. Oh, and you can still have a drink, just not carby ones.

Thank you. I like to think I'm pretty level headed person but very hard to describe the whirlwind of extreme emotions since walking out the surgery. Been reading about Mark Labbett and Tom Kerridge That's the range I'm in unfortunately. A few chickens coming home too roost

Craigmartin · Apr 23, 2020

xfieldok said:
Yay! Well done you. I was diagnosed with 122.

Don't count calories, count carbs. Get yourself a meter, we can help with that.

If you adopt a low carb or keto way of eating, you will lose weight and you won't put it back on

The diabetic nurse seemed to think i was on right track but not being able to go to the 2 information courses isn't helping but reading here has been helpful. Think A lot of it is common sense and a bit of trial and error?
Thanks for reply.

xfieldok · Apr 23, 2020

A meter will help you immensely. T2 is a metabolic disorder, we can't process carbohydrates. Eating the recommended eat well plate is dire advice.

Stick with us, read around the forum and ask questions.

By the time you go on your courses you will know more than they do.

JoKalsbeek · Apr 23, 2020

Craigmartin said:
Thank you. I like to think I'm pretty level headed person but very hard to describe the whirlwind of extreme emotions since walking out the surgery. Been reading about Mark Labbett and Tom Kerridge That's the range I'm in unfortunately. A few chickens coming home too roost

I had to look those people up, as I'm Dutch. See my avatar? This used to be me in 2016. I was morbidly obese, extremely tired, depressed, anxious, and generally very, very unhealthy. I didn't know I was a T2, and had been for, well, years , most likely:

After I hit 102 kilo's, I stopped weighing myself because it was just too painful, so I don't know how much weight I've lost, exactly. But what I did lose, was because I cut the carbs, upped the fats, and kept protein moderate. You'll get a whole lot of contradicting advice, from medical professionals, from people who've been there, like me, from Google... And everyone thinks they're absolutely right. But we're all different, meaning that what is right for one, isn't right for another. I can't give you absolute numbers of what would work. Keto (20 grams of carbs a day) would, technically fit your needs, as would carnivore, which is nearer to 0 carbs. That doesn't mean, however, that those diets would make you happy and would be sustainable in the long run. I'm happy on Keto, it works for me and I'll stick with it. For you? Depends entirely on your physical needs as well as your mental needs. So what does that mean for you?

Figure it our for yourself. Literally. Tailor-make a diet for yourself. How? Get a meter, test before a meal and 2 hours after it, and aim for a rise of no more than 2.0 mmol. If it stays under, that meal was exactly right for you, and your body could process it.Go over that 2.0 mmol/l mark and it was more than your body could handle. Stick with that and your blood glucose will drop, your HbA1c will get better, the non alcoholic fatty liver disease you most likely have will melt off (mine did, and they thought it was a cancerous mass when first diagnosed. Nope, just fat!), your blood pressure'll get one heck of a lot better, and depression won't rule you anymore.

Also, you make it sound like, with the roosting thing, you brought this upon yourself. You didn't. Or did you know you had a metabolic, genetic condition that means you couldn't process carbs like other people can? The diet you followed, I'm guessing it was a low fat one? You know, the one most of us are advised and is exactly wrong for a prediabetic or T2? You are not to blame for your genes. Otherwise, this'd be a place where we'd just stick with self flagellation rather than helping one another make choices that are better for our physical and mental well-being.

It can only get better from here on in. I could barely walk around my own home without falling to my knees every now and again... Muscles were just vanishing. I barely got out of bed, never mind leaving the house. I was in pain all the time. Mentally too. It gets better. Oh man, does it ever.
Jo

Craigmartin · Apr 23, 2020

Cheers. Hoping not to sound dense how do I calculate carbs in my food? Reading 30/40g per day ideally? Sugars and fats I understand.
This is the first days menu (forgive the toast)
2 x granary slice toast
1 small banana
Chicken breast,carrots,cauliflower small baked potato.
Tea will be 2 brown wraps with tuna cucumber and tomato.
Had a lemon water today and 2 normal waters so far.probably have another with tea
Probably have a coke zero at some point(Been on zero sugar pop for years)
Don't drink tea or coffee as a rule so i wont find it hard to stick with H20 like i read some do.. I may change the toast for porridge and get carrot sticks and celery with hummus as a snack? The sugary cereals bags of crisps and (sob) biscuits all gone to the birds this morning. Time for action

Craigmartin · Apr 23, 2020

JoKalsbeek said:
I had to look those people up, as I'm Dutch. See my avatar? This used to be me in 2016. I was morbidly obese, extremely tired, depressed, anxious, and generally very, very unhealthy. I didn't know I was a T2, and had been for, well, years , most likely:View attachment 40684

After I hit 102 kilo's, I stopped weighing myself because it was just too painful, so I don't know how much weight I've lost, exactly. But what I did lose, was because I cut the carbs, upped the fats, and kept protein moderate. You'll get a whole lot of contradicting advice, from medical professionals, from people who've been there, like me, from Google... And everyone thinks they're absolutely right. But we're all different, meaning that what is right for one, isn't right for another. I can't give you absolute numbers of what would work. Keto (20 grams of carbs a day) would, technically fit your needs, as would carnivore, which is nearer to 0 carbs. That doesn't mean, however, that those diets would make you happy and would be sustainable in the long rung. I'm happy on Keto, it works for me and I'll stick with it. For you? Depends entirely on your physical needs as well as your mental needs. So what does that mean for you?

Figure it our for yourself. Literally. Tailor-make a diet for yourself. How? Get a meter, test before a meal and 2 hours after it, and aim for a rise of no more than 2.0 mmol. If it stays under, that meal was exactly right for you, and your body could process it.Go over that 2.0 mmol/l mark and it was more than your body could handle. Stick with that and your blood glucose will drop, your HbA1c will get better, the non alcoholic fatty liver disease you most likely have will melt off (mine did, and they thought it was a cancerous mass when first diagnosed. Nope, just fat!), your blood pressure'll get one heck of a lot better, and depression won't rule you anymore.

Also, you make it sound like, with the roosting thing, you brought this upon yourself. You didn't. Or did you know you had a metabolic, genetic condition that means you couldn't process carbs like other people can? The diet you followed, I'm guessing it was a low fat one? You know, the one most of us are advised and is exactly wrong for a prediabetic or T2? You are not to blame for your genes. Otherwise, this'd be a place where we'd just stick with self flagellation rather than helping one another make choices that are better for our physical and mental well-being.

It can only get better from here on in. I could barely walk around my own home without falling to my knees every now and again... Muscles were just vanishing. I barely got out of bed, never mind leaving the house. I was in pain all the time. Mentally too. It gets better. Oh man, does it ever.
Jo

Wow a very informative and helpful post. Thank you so much. I could lose another 6 stone and still be big Was 32 st 09lb April 2019. 6 ft 4 so always carried it better than some the instructor at gym estimated I was 24 stone when started so whilst hugely overweight I sort of was in denial just how dire it was. I suspect this battle with type2 is going to be fought in the mind as well as diet and excersise? This forum has helped me already and today is certainly better than yesterday.. Thanks again

xfieldok · Apr 23, 2020

It's a good start but room for improvement. Bananas are a no go area. Avoid all fruit apart from berries eat them with full fat greek yogurt.

Porridge is a weird one. Some can tolerate it, others can't.

Toast really needs to go. Can you swap out the wraps and use lettuce instead?

The baked potato is questionable. This is why you need a meter

Personally I can only eat a tiny amount of carrot or onion.

Cauliflower is incredibly versatile. Google keto cauliflower.

Have a look around the dietdoctor.com site.

JoKalsbeek · Apr 23, 2020

Craigmartin said:
Cheers. Hoping not to sound dense how do I calculate carbs in my food? Reading 30/40g per day ideally? Sugars and fats I understand.
This is the first days menu (forgive the toast)
2 x granary slice toast
1 small banana
Chicken breast,carrots,cauliflower small baked potato.
Tea will be 2 brown wraps with tuna cucumber and tomato.
Had a lemon water today and 2 normal waters so far.probably have another with tea
Probably have a coke zero at some point(Been on zero sugar pop for years)
Don't drink tea or coffee as a rule so i wont find it hard to stick with H20 like i read some do.. I may change the toast for porridge and get carrot sticks and celery with hummus as a snack? The sugary cereals bags of crisps and (sob) biscuits all gone to the birds this morning. Time for action

All of that sounds healthy, doesn't it? Alas... Not quite. First, the carbs question. You check the nutritional information, which is usually per 100 grams of product: check total carbs, NOT just "of which sugars", as all carbs turn to glucose once ingested, not just the ones that were already sugar when put into the product. Say you have 200 grams of vegetables at 3 grams per 100 (don't deduct fibre unless you're in the US. In the rest of the world fibre's already deducted). That's 6 grams of carbs for the veggies. Excellent number.

Going over the things you're eating that are carb laden: Toast, banana (Banana's have about 20 grams of carbs per 100 grams. That's a LOT), wraps, carrots (underground veggies are a lot carbier than the above ground varieties), potato's are almost pure starch and thus, carby. The porridge is probably worse than toast, as breakfast options go. All cereals too. Eggs with bacon, cheese, high meat content sausages and/or tomato would be a much better choice, believe it or not. Right now you eat more carbs in a day than I do in a week. Or two. Which is good news: You have LOTS of room for improvement!

It's a lot to take in. Print off the lists of do's and don't's in my Nutritional Thingy and study it for a while. You've had a big shock with the diagnosis and if you're like the bulk of us, it was traumatic: meaning you don't take in as much as you normally would, and you're on information overload. Check the list, see what foods are nixed, and go over your usual grocery list. Maybe check nutritional value on the website of your usual supermarket. If you have to check all your usual brands and all their alternatives in the shop, you'll be there for 2 hours and leave with nothing but a single bit of celery. (Which yes, is fine. ).

As carbs are addictive, yes, it will be a battle of wills... The will of your body, the one who'll have severe carb cravings, and yourself: wanting to be well again. It is hard at first, gets easier once the cravings abate though.
Jo

Bluetit1802 · Apr 23, 2020

These pages will help you

https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/foods#foodlist

https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/foods#foodtoavoid

https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/60-seconds

Having your own blood glucose meter will help you even more.

Craigmartin · Apr 23, 2020

JoKalsbeek said:
All of that sounds healthy, doesn't it? Alas... Not quite. First, the carbs question. You check the nutritional information, which is usually per 100 grams of product: check total carbs, NOT just "of which sugars", as all carbs turn to glucose once ingested, not just the ones that were already sugar when put into the product. Say you have 200 grams of vegetables at 3 grams per 100 (don't deduct fibre unless you're in the US. In the rest of the world fibre's already deducted). That's 6 grams of carbs for the veggies. Excellent number.

Going over the things you're eating that are carb laden: Toast, banana (Banana's have about 20 grams of carbs per 100 grams. That's a LOT), wraps, carrots (underground veggies are a lot carbier than the above ground varieties), potato's are almost pure starch and thus, carby. The porridge is probably worse than toast, as breakfast options go. All cereals too. Eggs with bacon, cheese, high meat content sausages and/or tomato would be a much better choice, believe it or not. Right now you eat more carbs in a day than I do in a week. Or two. Which is good news: You have LOTS of room for improvement!

It's a lot to take in. Print off the lists of do's and don't's in my Nutritional Thingy and study it for a while. You've had a big shock with the diagnosis and if you're like the bulk of us, it was traumatic: meaning you don't take in as much as you normally would, and you're on information overload. Check the list, see what foods are nixed, and go over your usual grocery list. Maybe check nutritional value on the website of your usual supermarket. If you have to check all your usual brands and all their alternatives in the shop, you'll be there for 2 hours and leave with nothing but a single bit of celery. (Which yes, is fine. ).

As carbs are addictive, yes, it will be a battle of wills... The will of your body, the one who'll have severe carb cravings, and yourself: wanting to be well again. It is hard at first, gets easier once the cravings abate though.
Jo

I haven't got any test strips or any way to self monitor so will enquire next Friday at my follow up appointment.Obviously the food/diet is a minefield and I didn't know a lot of what you have told me. Really appreciate the fact you guys have the patience and compassion to help and share with the newly diagnosed.

JoKalsbeek · Apr 23, 2020

Craigmartin said:
I haven't got any test strips or any way to self monitor so will enquire next Friday at my follow up appointment.Obviously the food/diet is a minefield and I didn't know a lot of what you have told me. Really appreciate the fact you guys have the patience and compassion to help and share with the newly diagnosed.

You're not going to be given a meter, sorry. The bulk of us self-fund, as they only give meters to people who are on gliclazide and the like, or insulin. With just metformin there's no risk of you getting a hypo, and there's so very, very many T2's out there, that the NHS would likely go bankrupt if they had to fund us all. (Or well, you. My Dutch insurance doesn't fund me either beyond 40 euro's. That's next to nothing.)

Rachox made a nice little list of very valuable information for anyone looking to get a meterm which I'll add below. The strips are the cost, so you want to get a meter that won't bleed you dry while you're bleeding yourself dry.

Here’s some info on UK meters, and to be clear I have no commercial connections with any of the companies mentioned. For a meter with cheap strips go for the Tee2 + found here:

http://spirit-healthcare.co.uk/product/tee2-plus-blood-glucose-meter/ with the strips found here:

http://spirit-healthcare.co.uk/product/tee2-testing-strips/

Some members have got a free Tee2+ by phoning up to order, with a large order of strips they often throw the meter in for free:

Phone number 0800 8815423

With more expensive strips is the Caresens Dual which I currently use, this one has the advantage of glucose and ketone testing in one machine, it’s to be found here:

https://shop.spirit-health.co.uk/collections/caresens-dual

Home Health have recently bought out this one, but I haven’t heard any reviews yet, links to strips and the meter:

https://homehealth-uk.com/all-products/glucose-navii-blood-glucose-test-strips-50-strip-pack/

https://homehealth-uk.com/all-products/gluconavii-blood-sugar-meter-glucose-monitor-starter-kit/

And to be totally transparent I used to use the SD Code Free from Home Health which has the cheapest strips available if bought in quantities of 5 or 10 pots with the codes below. However I found it to be becoming less and less reliable. Here it is for anyone wanting to give it a go, just bear in mind it seems they are replacing it with the Navii, details above.

http://homehealth-uk.com/product-category/blood-glucose/blood-glucose-monitor/

and here for the extra strips

http://homehealth-uk.com/all-products/sd-codefree-test-strips-to-be-used-only-with-the-sd-monitor/

There are discount codes if you buy in bulk.

5 packs 264086

10 packs 975833

Don’t forget to check the box if you have pre diabetes or diabetes so you can buy VAT free. (for all meters and strips)

JoKalsbeek · Apr 23, 2020

Craigmartin said:
I haven't got any test strips or any way to self monitor so will enquire next Friday at my follow up appointment.Obviously the food/diet is a minefield and I didn't know a lot of what you have told me. Really appreciate the fact you guys have the patience and compassion to help and share with the newly diagnosed.

PS: When I was first diagnosed I was in a panic. I got all the wrong information, and I'd seen people have horrible complications and deaths due to T2.. I thought I had one foot in the grave. The Dutch forum was useless, when I asked for some hope all I got was crickets, they were all as lost as I was... It would've saved me a lot of tears and nightmares if I'd found this place sooner. Now I just try and advise on here so people don't have to go through what I did. Long way to say "My pleasure". As i am sure goes for other responders here too. We're here to help.

Craigmartin · Apr 23, 2020

Going shopping shortly armed with bit more info.. Some of the high/low carb food and drink truly surprised me.Literally polar opposite of general opinions. One last question for now. In the past I've used maximuscle promax lean protein powders as an aid for weight loss pre gym instead of breakfast and it worked for me.Would that be ok now? Again reading conflicting advice..

Bluetit1802 · Apr 23, 2020

Craigmartin said:
Going shopping shortly armed with bit more info.. Some of the high/low carb food and drink truly surprised me.Literally polar opposite of general opinions. One last question for now. In the past I've used maximuscle promax lean protein powders as an aid for weight loss pre gym instead of breakfast and it worked for me.Would that be ok now? Again reading conflicting advice..

Before you go shopping you need to know how to look at the food labels. Look for the full nutrition details. Then look for Total carbs (you can ignore the "of which sugars"). The amounts are written in grams per 100g, so they are a percentage. Something with 60g carbs per 100g means 60% of whatever portion you decide to have will be carbohydrate. Do not buy any low fat, zero fat, or Light products. They are mostly highly processed and contain carbs and other things to replace the fat. When you cut carbs you need to eat fats. Fresh foods not in packets or tins, you can find the carb content on-line quite easily by Googling the product on a supermarket site, preferably Sainsburys.

I can't help with the protein powders. I prefer to obtain my protein requirements from meat, fish, cheese and so forth. Is there a label on the powders that tells you the ingredients?

xfieldok · Apr 23, 2020

Check the ingredients on the protein stuff. I couldn't find anything on nutrition. You need to learn all the different names for sugar.

Craigmartin · Apr 23, 2020

Dug out an old tub.. it's 1.6g carb per serving 1.2 of which is sugar. Looks good in theory but one serving has 80% rda caffeine and 25% folic acid which sounds high imo?

Daibell · Apr 23, 2020

Hi and welcome. A lot of good advice so far. Just cut the carbs and have enough protein and fats to keep you feeling full. You will find that you don't need to worry about Calories. Just follow the advice and your body weight and BS should look after themselves. If you want to tweak your weight later then just adjust the three food types.

Type2 confirmed yesterday

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