Upcoming LCHF Research Study: "It could be game changing".

Biggles2

Well-Known Member
Messages
324
From the New England Journal of Medicine:

An article on an upcoming ‘tightly controlled feeding study’. Here are 3 snippets from the article and the link to the full article:

'Interest in the Ketogenic Diet Grows for Weight Loss and Type 2 Diabetes'

“A diet that lets a person eat fat to satiety—even saturated fat—without relying on calorie counting and still lose substantial weight, treat diabetes into remission, raise HDL levels, and lower triglycerides and blood pressure? It could be game changing for the field of chronic disease—if the benefits pan out in large-scale trials and can be sustained by many.”​

“People with type 2 diabetes, on the other hand, may need to stay on the diet to control their disease.”​

“For now, Ludwig said the evidence for very low-carb-diets for weight loss and diabetes management is still preliminary, but funding for high-quality research could change that. His weight-maintenance study is funded by a $12 million philanthropic grant from the Laura and John Arnold Foundation.”​

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2669724
 

TheBigNewt

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,167
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
FAKE NEWS RIDES AGAIN. Here's what it said when I clicked on the link......

"This summer, 25 overweight and obese adults participating in a tightly controlled feeding study will take up full-time residence for 3 months at a wooded lakefront center in Ashland, Massachusetts. However, BEFORE CHECKING IN at Framingham State University’s Warren Conference Center and Inn, they will have to lose 15% of their body weight on a calorie-restricted diet with home-delivered meals. Those who pass this hurdle will be invited to the inn, where they’ll be randomly assigned to 1 of 3 equal-calorie diets: a low-fat, high-carbohydrate diet that’s either high or low in added sugar or a very low-carbohydrate, high-fat ketogenic diet that causes the body to switch from burning carbohydrates to burning fat."
First of all this is JAMA, not the NEJM. Second off to get into this card game you had to lose 15% of your body weight by eating a diet of calorie restricted meals that are delivered to you. If you didn't and stayed in the group you did notget to go on in the study. If you did you got to go to Camp and will be assigned to one 3 "equal calorie" diets. Doesn't say anything about eating fat foods until you're full. "Equal Calories" it says. Which makes sense. You're not gonna lose weight eating chicken wings and fatty stuff until you puke compared to eating high carbs in lower amounts.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Biggles2

Well-Known Member
Messages
324
If you didn't and stayed in the group you did notget to go on in the study. If you did you got to go to Camp and will be assigned to one 3 "equal calorie" diets.

I would say that controlling for equal calories is important if you want to disprove the hypothesis that obesity/T2DM are energy balance disorders (calories in/calories out).

I will be interested in seeing which of the diets will demonstrate the most weight loss and have the best metabolic markers after the completion of the study. My money is on the LCHF diet. In fact, I’ll bet LCHF will knock it out of the ballpark! But then again, I would - being a 100% keto gal myself.

Look on the bright side @TheBigNewt – if this study proves the value of a keto diet for T2DM control, and if it then gains wider acceptance within the medical and dietetic communities, it will save the VA a ton of money on insulin costs thus increasing capacity and access for the vets. That can only be a good thing.;)

I posted this because I believe that it will be of interest to those of us who are disrupting the status quo by eating LCHF and by this very act we are pushing back at the food guidelines and medical establishment status quo that have given many of us metabolic mayhem. I would add that there are a few enlightened physicians who have been brave enough to push back at the status quo as well.

You are indeed correct @TheBigNewt, this was published in JAMA, not NEJM. Maybe the results of the study will be published in NEJM – wouldn’t that be great!
 
Last edited by a moderator:

AdamJames

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,338
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
I would say that controlling for equal calories is important if you want to disprove the hypothesis that obesity/T2DM are energy balance disorders (calories in/calories out).

Do you think there will ever be a simple categorisation of 'the' cause of T2, or that we'll ever be able to rule out a cause?

I'm thinking that lung cancer, for example, could be the result of many things. A smoke problem, a radiation problem, a genetic problem, or bad luck in some as-yet unknown way. There's no point in trying to make it fit one cause.

I'd expect T2 similarly to be the result of more than one thing. I'd be stunned if for some people the first-order cause wasn't energy balance. By first-order I mean that for some individuals, if that one thing alone was tackled, they may avoid T2 altogether.

Running out of petrol in a car is a fuel tank size problem, an engine efficiency problem, a speed problem, a wind resistance problem etc. I don't know why I said that, it's a silly analogy and I'm sure you get my point anyway!
 
  • Like
Reactions: becca59

Hotpepper20000

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,065
Do you think there will ever be a simple categorisation of 'the' cause of T2, or that we'll ever be able to rule out a cause?

I'm thinking that lung cancer, for example, could be the result of many things. A smoke problem, a radiation problem, a genetic problem, or bad luck in some as-yet unknown way. There's no point in trying to make it fit one cause.

I'd expect T2 similarly to be the result of more than one thing. I'd be stunned if for some people the first-order cause wasn't energy balance. By first-order I mean that for some individuals, if that one thing alone was tackled, they may avoid T2 altogether.

Running out of petrol in a car is a fuel tank size problem, an engine efficiency problem, a speed problem, a wind resistance problem etc. I don't know why I said that, it's a silly analogy and I'm sure you get my point anyway!
I don’t think there will ever be “the cause” for type 2. I say that because I have PCOS. And with that most women have insulin resistance. There are other causes of type 2 in women.
For men there would be other causes again.

I know diet is often talked about as a cause but I think in addition to that we need to start investigating environmental pollutants that affect our bodies.
This is a complex disease and as it is often said here that everyone is different in how they treat their diabetes so are the causes.
 
Last edited:

Kailee56

Well-Known Member
Messages
183
Type of diabetes
LADA
Treatment type
Diet only
I’m really curious about the condition of loosing 15% body weight using calorie restriction, BEFORE being allowed in the study. Wouldn’t this lower their metabolic rate?. Is this condition just to verify their commitment to losing weight? Is it to weed out those who have to cut carbs to lose weight, so they are only dealing with those who can lose weight with calorie restriction?It will be interesting to see the researchers rationale once published.

I’m thrilled that there is someone willing to fund this study. Can’t wait to see the results. Yes, I think LCHF will knock high carb out of the ball park, but then I too am biased. :)
 

EllieM

Moderator
Staff Member
Messages
9,208
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
Dislikes
forum bugs
So the study will have 25 members, assigned to 3 different diets ie 8,8,9 on each diet? Seems like way too small a sample to be significant to me....
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fairygodmother

NicoleC1971

BANNED
Messages
3,451
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Pump
Thanks for posting here about the study. Very glad that philanthropists are assisting this important work. I note that the president's doctor is advising a low fat diet following his medical so am glad that we are moving from anecdotal stories about the ketogenic diet and more into garnering evidence to discover more truth.
The reason that folks are being asked to lose weight prior to the study is that its purpose is to understand the best way to maintain weight loss; we all know its possible to lose mass in the short term but that most people cannot keep that weight off.
Most feeding studies also rely on ensuring compliance though feeding diaries which are notoriously inaccurate so I am glad that these people will be in a more controlled environment.
I also note that there is to be an eat what you like of whatever diet you are assigned to measure impact on appetite hormones etc. thus it may turn out that you can eat chicken wings (though not in bbq sauce) ' until you puke' and still lose weight. That may be because if allowed to eat fat most people probably won't eat chicken wings til they puke unless the wings are slathered in msg and sticky sweet sauces!
This is a treatment intervention type study so they are not looking at the root cause of why people get metabolic syndrome which as others hve pointed out is not clear other than it associates with sugar /fructose consumption.
 

TheBigNewt

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,167
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
So the study will have 25 members, assigned to 3 different diets ie 8,8,9 on each diet? Seems like way too small a sample to be significant to me....
Very small sample size. And a tightly controlled diet for everyone no matter what group they draw. It said somewhere in there depending on the results a much larger study would be needed to verify any results of this. These people don't have diabetes either.
 

bulkbiker

BANNED
Messages
19,576
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
I think you will find its more a proof of concept rather than a definitive study. Can significant weight loss be maintained or improved with a low carb diet compared to other diet types. Similarly to how the Newcastle Diet was first tried out. If it doesn't work for the small group then there is little point trying on thousands of guinea pigs. @TheBigNewt as a medical man I would have thought you would have approved.
 

ringi

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,365
Type of diabetes
Type 2
I believe ‏virtahealth ‏is about to publish a paper showing very impressive results from "very low carb" combined with a high level of support from a health coach. (They are getting "paid by results" from some large USA employers based on the savings made on drugs for Type2 along with good A1C results. VC funding is coming from the person who started PayPall.)

If they can scale up and repeat their results, then soon or later a lot of the large USA health insurance providers will consider them to be the "cheap" option......
 

TheBigNewt

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,167
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
I think you will find its more a proof of concept rather than a definitive study. Can significant weight loss be maintained or improved with a low carb diet compared to other diet types. Similarly to how the Newcastle Diet was first tried out. If it doesn't work for the small group then there is little point trying on thousands of guinea pigs. @TheBigNewt as a medical man I would have thought you would have approved.
The problem with small, very tightly controlled studies like this (all meals mailed to them at first, then they have to lose 15% of body weight before admitted to diet trial, then all meals are at a lodge, prepared, identical calories, etc) is that it's not possible to reproduce those controlled conditions in large populations of the general public. People who know they're in a study, for instance statin vs diet, behave somewhat differently than the average person. They know they're being studied so they sober up!
 

Boo1979

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,849
Type of diabetes
Other
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
I’m really curious about the condition of loosing 15% body weight using calorie restriction, BEFORE being allowed in the study. Wouldn’t this lower their metabolic rate?. Is this condition just to verify their commitment to losing weight? Is it to weed out those who have to cut carbs to lose weight, so they are only dealing with those who can lose weight with calorie restriction?It will be interesting to see the researchers rationale once published. :)
Well given that losing 15% of body weight is the stated aim of the Newcastle diet in order to clear pancreatic fat, I find it hard to see them as unrelated
 

ringi

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,365
Type of diabetes
Type 2
The problem with small, very tightly controlled studies like this

That way I so love the results that Dr. David Unwin have published, as it is a normal GP setting, and he has no choice over who he sees, likewise, most people don't choose their GP.