Vitamin B12

[Mike d]

Hi guys

Interested in taking these as I've read that it counteracts effects of metformin of loss of B12 in the liver. Does anybody take it, and if so, why and what are your opinions.

Also, some suggest it should be taken in the morning and not the evening. Any suggestions on that as well? Thanks

Mike

 

[donnellysdogs]

Best way to find out if you need to take them is to get a blood test done.
Then you know your readings, then try taking if nessary and ask for a follow up blood test after 6 months.

B12 is strange. Mine was low and was diagnosed with pernicious anaemia about 10 years ago.
Then gp in Wales decided I didn't need them after 5 years. Normally on the injections for life after diagnosis of PA. However instead of sinking back down they have actually shot well over the target range level. Despite further tests nothing has been found as the cause. Still waiting for my most recent ones. I know they aren't normal as the Practice have given me my normal blood results but GP is still reviewing abnormal results..

I wouldn't take B12 unless you know its needed. Excess is meant to come out in our wee. However, from my experience excess is not being wee'd out...

 

[Mike d]

Thanks DD

Seeing GP tomorrow so I'll put it to him ahead of my 4th three month test in 20 days. Personally, can't see how they would hurt. Just reckon I'm low with odd feelings in fingers (trembling and at odd times a sharp stab on pain) which some websites put down to metformin.

Are they're any other non intrusive vitamins a T2 can take?

Thanks Mike

 

[donnellysdogs]

Low B12 for me was only diagnosed when my GP a decade ago sent me to the stroke clinic as I'd gone to a customers house where I had been going for years and had to phone her to cancel to say I wasn't well. I was on the main road leading to her side road and just totally couldn't remember which side road or which house...blood was 5.7 when I tested so I knew I wasn't hypo...

My tiredness and forgetfulness was awful. Chronic. So GP sent me to stroke clinic and they diagnosed B12 deficiency and folate too.

I think that the worst symptoms of being B12 and folate deficient is memory and tiredness as I experienced. Your symptoms do not necessarily stand out to me as being low B12 to be honest.

Agree its worth checking and seeing if low and if it is then taking. I know that I still felt bad even when I got up to the lower end of the normal range.
So even being low in the large range of normal can still display symptoms.

Hope you have a good GP that will do a test.

I did take B12 and folate supplements for a while from healthspan when they stopped my injections but my levels still dropped so I was actually thinking just let them drop then they will have to give me jabs again. So I stopped taking them about 18 months ago. Then last year for some reason my levels just suddenly shot up to unbelievable highs for no reason.

Thats why I'm just a little cautious on recommending something before the simple test...

Hope someone comes along with a direct answer to your query, not just a life story

 

[Mike d]

Hey DD!!

Thanks for taking the time to come back .... the more insights, the better. Appreciate it

Yes, I do have forgetfulness as well in the morning ... at least for a few minutes. To be honest, my brain spins like a top as soon as soon as I rouse myself from sleep so that could be a symptom as well. Have a hundred things running thru my head. It's when I wake that the hand / finger trembling starts so I quickly exercise and it seems to settle. Reckon it's my posture during the day to be honest as it's a radiating pain down my neck into both arms so may have that seen to as well.

Thanks for your time

Mike

 

[Indy51]

My understanding is that the methyl versions of B12 and folate are the best absorbed, though most supplement companies use the cheaper versions like cyanocobalamin and folic acid.

http://www.naturalnews.com/032766_cyanocobalamin_vitamin_B-12.html
http://chriskresser.com/folate-vs-folic-acid

 

[donnellysdogs]

Agree with Indy that the conalamin ones are the best..but they used to be hugely more expensive. The cobalamin tablets are of the same med type as the injections.

Sometimes the over 50 multivitamins have more b12 in. I'm a little wary of taking too much.. Just because for some reason my body isn't expelling B12 properly now......

 

[Ruth B]

My doctor tested for B12 a couple of years after I started the Metformin and prescribed tablets as it was low. I'm no expert but I have heard that Metformin can inhibit the uptake of B12, but if you start the supplement early your body can keep absorbing it naturally but requires higher levels which is why you have the supplement. If you don't have enough B12 for your body to keep absorbing it you can lose the ability to absorb it and then you have to move onto injections, the same as people who can not normally absorb B12.

On an historical note, before injections were available, people who couldn't naturally absorb B12 were able to supplement their diet daily with raw liver which for some reason could still act as a source for them. I know some one who was a nurse before retiring and they have mentioned advising people to drink liquidised raw liver daily to help stave off the symptoms. I think I would welcome the injections if it ever becomes necessary.

 

[Mike d]

Thanks Ruth

Mike

 

[donnellysdogs]

My doctor tested for B12 a couple of years after I started the Metformin and prescribed tablets as it was low. I'm no expert but I have heard that Metformin can inhibit the uptake of B12, but if you start the supplement early your body can keep absorbing it naturally but requires higher levels which is why you have the supplement. If you don't have enough B12 for your body to keep absorbing it you can lose the ability to absorb it and then you have to move onto injections, the same as people who can not normally absorb B12.

On an historical note, before injections were available, people who couldn't naturally absorb B12 were able to supplement their diet daily with raw liver which for some reason could still act as a source for them. I know some one who was a nurse before retiring and they have mentioned advising people to drink liquidised raw liver daily to help stave off the symptoms. I think I would welcome the injections if it ever becomes necessary.

Oh yuch!!!!!

 

[Bluetit1802]

Hi Mike,

This is what our NHS has to say about Vit B12.

Vitamin B12 has several important functions and is involved in:

• making red blood cells and keeping the nervous system healthy
• releasing energy from the food we eat
• processing folic acid

A lack of vitamin B12 could lead to vitamin B12 deficiency anaemia.

Good sources of vitamin B12
These include:

• meat
• salmon
• cod
• milk
• cheese
• eggs
• some fortified breakfast cereals

How much vitamin B12 do I need?
Adults need approximately 0.0015mg a day of vitamin B12.

If you eat meat, fish or dairy foods, you should be able to get enough vitamin B12 from your diet.

However, because vitamin B12 is not found in foods such as fruit, vegetables and grains, vegans may not get enough of this vitamin. See the vegan diet for information and advice about vegan nutrition.

What happens if I take too much vitamin B12?
There is not enough evidence to show what the effects may be of taking high doses of vitamin B12 supplements each day.

What does the Department of Health advise?
You should be able to get all the vitamin B12 you need by eating a varied and balanced diet. If you take vitamin B12 supplements, do not take too much because this could be harmful.

Taking 2mg or less a day of vitamin B12 in supplements is unlikely to cause any harm.

This is a very useful website for all vitamins and minerals

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/vitamins-minerals/Pages/vitamins-minerals.aspx

 

[Kat100]

Hi guys

Interested in taking these as I've read that it counteracts effects of metformin of loss of B12 in the liver. Does anybody take it, and if so, why and what are your opinions.

Also, some suggest it should be taken in the morning and not the evening. Any suggestions on that as well? Thanks

Mike

Hi mike I have the injections will do for life ....I was on them well before the metformin ...
Levels have to be monitored for me by regular blood tests as levels change ...it's another balancing act ...one you can't control without the blood tests
Best wishes ...Kat

 

[Sooze]

Mike if you DO get GP to test make sure you have been off the B12 supplements for a couple weeks otherwise you will get a false result. B12 deficiency can be horrendous if left untreated and if your body doesn't need it , it will be excreted out in the urine . B12 deficiency can mimic a lot of conditions such as MS and MND as well as host of others, so I think a blood test would be really appropriate - better safe than sorry

 

[Mike d]

Thanks to you ALL for your input ... been great !!

Mike

 

[mycanal]

can someone please send me the web link of the best B12 and omega 3 vitamins please but not hugely expensive but natural without gelatine, sweetner, chemical please. I would appreciate you help. which brand is the best.. a link from web, ebay, amazon,tesco, holland&barret will be quite helpful.

 

[Indy51]

I'm not in your part of the world, but just a hint - for B12 always look for the methylcobalamin form as it's the most absorbable.

 

[Ruth B]

Just checked my tablets and each tablet is supposedly 5000% of RDA, and I have to take 2 a day. I am guessing there isn't much problem with overdosing.

 

[Brunneria]

Just checked my tablets and each tablet is supposedly 5000% of RDA, and I have to take 2 a day. I am guessing there isn't much problem with overdosing.

None at all.

Excess is widdled away, and I don't think anyone has managed to discover any negative impact of large doses... Good news all round.

 

[donnellysdogs]

I don't think it is completely widdled away...my test results have halved last week and that is a year after stopping them. They never found a cause for why my b12 shot off the high scale... But the test 6 months ago was totally OTT after gradually climbing and climbing from when I took the tablets. Its now 12 months since I stopped taking them.

 

[Brunneria]

But @donnellysdogs you said you were on injections. Those are MANY times higher dose than the vitamin supplements Mike was talking about.

Added to which, your B12 seems to be falling again, over time.

It would be unfortunate if someone got the impression that they shouldn't supplement small over the counter doses of B12 because of your experience from repeated prescribed injections, which contain far larger doses, and should only be taken (as yours were) under medical supervision.